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  #281  
Old 10-14-2017, 08:32 PM
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She may not of always been factual..however back in that time frame PPD was not widely understood/talked about. The issues of bullimia and anorexia even less so.

Some of the BRF do have the attitude of 'just get on with it'...and not known for being overly sensitive.


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  #282  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:42 PM
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I think that "just get on with it" attitude is pretty widespread. If you do not have a cast or are admitted to a hospital people can be very dismissive and treat you like it's all in your head.

I suffer from migraines and for me, the first indication is often the loss of depth perception. I bump into door frames and edges of furniture, etc. There is no way I would get behind the wheel of a car. Yet at that stage, I am not even in pain and even family have a hard time understanding what is happening.

The frustrations of invisible illnesses are incredibly difficult when they impact on friends, family or even work. If they can't see it it just isn't happening.
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  #283  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:10 AM
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We've come a long way in understanding sicknesses that baffled us not so long ago. We're not that far removed from the era where women were told to smoke a cigarette even to "relax" them and ease the pain. The Rolling Stones sang about "mother's little helpers" which also was prevalent. PMS and PPD and mental sicknesses are now being treated as one would for pneumonia.

When something isn't understood, its hard for someone to know what to do for the person or how to cope with the sufferer. Charles was between a rock and a hard place when it came to Diana. One minute she could be all smiles and then turn into sobbing mess. She was very mercurial and he didn't know what to expect.

@Marg. I also get severe migraines from time to time. A capsule of white willow bark and feverfew per day is supposed to prevent the onset and even lessen the effects of migraines.
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  #284  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:04 AM
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I agree but it is true that she did as I recall say something like "I think that no one in the RF had had this depression/post natal thing before.." so that would seem oto indicate that she did not find great sympathy from them with her experience of this illness,.
It may not be true, but she did say something to that effect....
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  #285  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:34 AM
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When I think about it, even if other members of the BRF had experienced post natal depression, it would not have been something that they talk about. From what I know, and this covers the very little I know about the royal family's interpersonal, private relationships, they weren't a family that swapped personal feelings and maladies and such over dinners. Some things were just not talked about. That's why they kept diaries. One kept personal things personal.

I think a better way for Diana to have expressed that is to say that to her knowledge, no one in the royal family has going through this before. They may have but not talked about it. By all I know of Diana, (and this neither good or bad), she was a very touching/feeling emotional person that naturally needed an outlet. The royal family is the exact opposite of that from what I know of them. Another instance of oil and vinegar. They just don't mix.
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  #286  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:38 AM
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I'd say it si very likely that other royal women have experienced post natal depression and I'm sure that if Diana had it, at least younger royal women would not have fainted wit horror at her experiencing it or talking about it. Not the queen, or Margaret problaby, but other younger royals.
But they woudln't have talked of it publicly and perhaps would have felt "yes it is awful Diana, but you have to get treatment and get over it".. and certainly not complain publicly.
I think she was just as she often did exaggerating how miserable she was, and how little sympathy or understand the RF showed to her in illnesses like bulimima, morning sickness, post natal depression etc.
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  #287  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:44 AM
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One thing that expresses what you wrote, Denville, is that I do think that another syndrome that Diana had was the PLOMS. The "Poor Little Ol' Me" Syndrome.

Some people have problems and rather than dwell on them, they find solutions and fix things. Some people dwell on the problems and wallow in them feeling sorry for themselves. Diana was very much in the later IMO.

It doesn't make any of the problems less devastating or real but just different ways of handling them.
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  #288  
Old 10-15-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It doesn't make any of the problems less devastating or real but just different ways of handling them.
Well in fairness to Diana, a lot of her problems weren't that easily fixable. She had a serious condition of bulimia which wasn't understood at the time and wasn’t easy to cure. She was in a public position so that she could not admit to the illness easily... or “take time off” for serious in depth therapy. IM sure the RF was keen to keep her illness, her depression and upset and difficult days a secret.
She had an unhappy marriage which seems to have had real problems form Day 1, including Charles’ having just come out of an affair with another woman. She had little family support and no friends who were part of the inner royal circle, who could have maybe understood her position better and given her more useful advice. I think that her friends were not all that smart in helping with the Morton book, for instance. More sensible friends would have refused to help with it and said “Don’t do it”.
I agree, she was a “Poor liltet Me-er” but I’m a bit like that myself. I do tend to weep and wail.
But think she did have a tendency to exaggerate and outright lie at times, when she was unhappy. So that it is hard to disentangle her legitimate grievances from her “fancied” ones.
I don’t think the RF were the best people at dealing with mental illnesses such as bulimia, but I don’t think that they were out there with a whip making her work if she was ill with morning sickness, or post-natal blues. So In short I think that she didn’t get NO sympanthy form them for her illnesses during pregnancy and after
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  #289  
Old 10-15-2017, 07:12 AM
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Seriously though, when anyone has a problem or a challenge to face, fixing them can seem like a mountain to move with a toy shovel. Perhaps the royal family had the stamina of "getting on with it" whereas Diana was more sensitive to her problems and fixated on them more but the fact remains that people handle things differently.

Diana, it seems, had things coming at her from all angles and from different experiences and that put her into a vicious cycle that most likely would devastate many women to the point of never coming back. Diana did eventually face a lot of her problems and even went public about them as she did with her bulimia and, to me, that showed a lot of personal growth. Other aspects of her life did consume her to the point of constantly wanting revenge and restitution by making it all public which, IMO, was not a wise thing to do.

The more we delve into the person that was Diana, the more we realize just what a complex person she really was.

Oh btw: If you ever do get into the weep and wail mode, remember you have friends here.
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  #290  
Old 10-15-2017, 07:12 AM
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Queen Mary was renown for her adherence to duty. It was she who famously -apocryphally?- taught the child Elizabeth how to take control of her bladder against those times when she'd have to stand for hours. Her work paid dividends. Her Majesty has never once been derelict in her duty, her sense of which surpasses all else. However, duty -such a cold word- is something one does, but not necessarily feels, beyond the importance of doing it. In this, HM is the consummate professional................but she was born to it. I guess by now, it comes naturally. I think it would have been hard for anyone to attain those high standards after such a short time. To go from nonentity to celebrity, child minder to POW, newly wed to mother of a future king all within little more than a year -and still only just 21- be expected to carry out Royal duties without flinching would seem a huge burden for anyone, let alone a girl who was as unsure of herself and as mentally fragile as Diana. Throw PPD into the mix and one starts to wonder how she managed to do anything. She spoke often of her duty. I believe it was important for her. To understand how successful she was in this, I think one would have to ask those of us she came into contact with. Of course she didn't fulfill them in the same way as HM. Different personality. Different generation, but fragile mental health, PPD, notwithstanding, I'm willing to bet it was a magical and unforgettable experience for most of those who met her. A pretty good legacy for a girl who -unlike her daughter in law who, thankfully, was given time and every assistance- was thrown in at the deep end and left to get on with it.
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  #291  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:14 PM
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Yes, I think that the way Diana went out in public and did her job in spite of how she felt and what she was dealing with was nothing less than phenomenal. She was very professional, both in terms of pleasing the public and with her paperwork. The issues in public with Prince Charles started showing in 1985 or 1986. I remember reading an article in a woman's magazine about their tour of Italy in 1985 which suggested that she was "touchy" on that trip. The reporter picked up that something wasn't quite right in the way they were acting toward each other.
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  #292  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:27 PM
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Yes, I think that the way Diana went out in public and did her job in spite of how she felt and what she was dealing with was nothing less than phenomenal. She was very professional, both in terms of pleasing the public and with her paperwork. The issues in public with Prince Charles started showing in 1985 or 1986. I remember reading an article in a woman's magazine about their tour of Italy in 1985 which suggested that she was "touchy" on that trip. The reporter picked up that something wasn't quite right in the way they were acting toward each other.
Yep, she'd fallen in love with James Hewitt and was at the beginnings of the longest involvement she would have with one man. All the rest would be 'fleeting' by comparison to her Hewitt liaison. She'd 'walked away' from Charles by then.
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  #293  
Old 11-02-2017, 05:38 AM
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Yes, I think that the way Diana went out in public and did her job in spite of how she felt and what she was dealing with was nothing less than phenomenal. She was very professional, both in terms of pleasing the public and with her paperwork. The issues in public with Prince Charles started showing in 1985other.
I think that's true that in spite of her health problems, and depression wit the marriage, she DID do her best and in public, until the very last years, she was doig a good job. asyou say very professional, dazzling, and charming...and I think serious about her work,
I think that it is a pity she didn't stick to "don't tell and don't explain", but she felt that she wanted out of the RF.
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  #294  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:32 AM
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Actually, I think things would have been much worse for Diana if she hadn't had her public appearances and her charitable works to balance her life out. In a world where her private life was falling apart at the seams, to be able to be out and among the people where she felt accepted, admired and loved were the bright spots in her life that she so badly needed. It was one area of her life where her innate sense of caring and compassion was reciprocated.

A happy life involves a lot of give and take and unfortunately, the place where Diana found this the most was in her public life. Without this, I think her private life would have been much worse on her mentally.
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  #295  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:27 AM
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I think it was in some ways but I'm not sure I wholly agree. She certainly "got something back" from her charity work, both in terms of being admired for when she did "glamourous events" and for the kindness and support she showed to people in need.
but - still, it all involved pressure, press notice, and at times criticsm. and that must have bene more strain for her. And its also a fact that Charles DID begin to get upset for a time at least that Diana was more photographed and noticed than he was. so maybe if her amazing popularity had been less or she hadn't done so much, perhaps she would have had more time/energy to bestow on trying to work out her private life? and maybe her bulimia would also have been less severe. I dont know. I think that the marriage was so difficult that it would never have worked out too well.. perhaps the charity work did keep her busy and give her satisfaction..but she did cut it back in her last couple fo years.. so perhaps It was also a source of strain for her.
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  #296  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:36 AM
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Truly a sad situation to watch from the outside. The adoration seemed to sustain her temporarily as the reality of her unhappiness just consumed her.
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