The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #181  
Old 05-16-2012, 02:13 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Green Bay, United States
Posts: 530
Illness, especially any type of mental illness, can make people do odd things. Diana is gone now, so I think it would be wise to just let her rest in peace. There were enough problems to go around, and nothing can be changed by discussing it.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 05-16-2012, 02:23 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,364
But things can be learned by discussing it. As this thread has shown, many people have suffered from similar illnesses as Diana's.
__________________

__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 05-16-2012, 02:42 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Green Bay, United States
Posts: 530
You are correct. I hope her legacy will be that people will seek help when it is needed and also, that you can do much good in the world, even while dealing with private demons.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
How does it? He is their father and as such they spent Christmas with their father and their paternal family. It speaks volumes if you want it too.

The fact they had a choice means nothing of the state of their relationship with their mother. Parents and children don't always see eye to eye, and the children, as they were, still highly depended on their mother's love, encouragement, support and companionship. Thus, I think people can look into the situation with an aim to perceive what it is they wish to perceive.

Furthermore, the Panorama interview took place in late November. By then the boys attendance at Sandringham would have been anticipated, surely? (royal christmas's are known to be orgnaised in advance afterall).

Had have the Panorama interview never taken place and had have the divorce not been announced when it was, then it's entirely likely that the boys would have spent Christmas at Sandringham as was the norm.

There was considerably more to this post, but for some unknown reason it continued to keep vanishing. No doubt much to the relief of others
I'm sorry that your full post doesn't appear, I find your opinions very interesting--and of course anyone who doesn't want to discuss this subject doesn't have to.

The relationship among Diana and her children is certainly related to her mental illness. What I was trying to say was that her judgment as a mother was often impaired by her illness. It is impossible to be as ill as Diana was and not impact her children.

I'm sure the last thing she wanted to do was hurt her children. But when she provided details of Charles affair and supposedly cold treatment of her in both the TV interview and the book, she was publicly attacking her children's father. I'm sure she convinced herself that she was doing it for the children. Penny Junor indicates that she thought Prince William would be proud of her.

Before she gave the interview, everyone had assumed Diana would spend Christmas with her children and the royal family, the way she had done the year before. She wasn't exactly disinvited after the interview, but she came to realize that the holiday would not have been ... joyful. William and Harry were told they could spend Christmas with their mother if they wanted. They chose their father. It is not uncommon for children to choose to spend time with the "well" parent.

From what I have read, Diana was beginning to come to grips with her illness when she died. Perhaps one reason was that she realized that some of her choices were alienating her sons. The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 05-16-2012, 08:22 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,533
Some, "royal" children are not given a choice. Diana had a serious problem, Charles did, too. A pity, but their sons grew up very nicely.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:30 PM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 2,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I'm sorry that your full post doesn't appear, I find your opinions very interesting--and of course anyone who doesn't want to discuss this subject doesn't have to...
What a very wise post this is. I am so glad that you emphasize that her illness was not a choice, and naturally it would impact her abilities as a mother.
I also remember the Morton book quite well and the panorama interview. I was shocked by it, and that's when I began to realize her instability and world view which only seemed to have her view.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 05-17-2012, 07:42 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 867
Thank you, Frelinghighness. I really have learned a lot from this discussion. There is such an interesting, unique, mix of posters. Some are like me and are dealing with a family member who is ill and others who have been ill themselves. All of them very informative and courageous. I've explained before, I joined this site after the very insightful post by chen bao jun explaining how her illness affected her family. I hope others who are suffering but have not gotten help are inspired by the very intelligent posts on this site.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:50 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 281
I agree Diana did suffer from mental illness. Obviously she had suffered depression and bulimia. But I am very suspecious of other mental illness people imposed on her after her death, such as the borderline personality disorder problem.

People have depression are still very capable of hiding their emotion. That is no matter how terrible they feel they can still "pretend" to be as normal as everybody else. That is why even if Diana had depression, she could still perform her public work quite well. Diana had displayed some critical symptoms of depression, such as insomnia, feeling of guilt, worthlessness and helpness, persistent sad, anxious or "empty" feeling, irritablility and restlessness and so on. So I think she was depressive occasionally.

About bulimia, it is an eating disorder. How it is related to mental health is still not totally comprehended. Whether bulimia is the cause of mental prblems or just the window of them, we can not tell.

Some posters said they had their first hand experience how a people with bulimia could behaved so excessively. I think we must be cautious when using other people's examples, because those people might have other mental illness or personality problem you don't know.

Overall, although Diana were mentally ill in some sense, but she was still a person of a strong mind. She could control her emotion well if she wanted to, no matter how bad she felt. Just look at how remarkably she performed her public work.

And I want to say, some people with bulimia reject to face their problems doesn't mean Diana would do the same thing. Here is an article about her fight with bulimia.

How this young Scots bulimia victim gave hope to a Princess racked by her guilt; 35 DAYS AFTER DIANA'S DEATH... NOW THE AMAZING STORY CAN BE TOLD. - Free Online Library
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:02 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 867
anbrida, I understand your concerns about diagnosing medical conditions after the death of a person, but I don't agree with you. Obviously, it is a matter of speculation whether Diana suffered from a borderline personality disorder. But I hope you understand that this is similar to speculating that Abraham Lincoln had Marfan Syndrome. Both BPD and Marfan Syndrome are medical conditions.

I am extremely troubled by the article you posted. Diana's death did not release any medical professional from "the bonds of confidentiality." The article does not refer to Ms Claude-Pierre as a doctor, so I assume she's not a doctor. If I, or someone I know, needed help, I would never go to that clinic. How would anyone be able to trust them with their innermost fears. It sounds like it the people who run it care more about publicity than their patients.

In my opinion, Diana, like many people with bulimia, also suffered from BPD. At the same time, I think her attempts to help others were admirable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:25 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I am extremely troubled by the article you posted. Diana's death did not release any medical professional from "the bonds of confidentiality." The article does not refer to Ms Claude-Pierre as a doctor, so I assume she's not a doctor. If I, or someone I know, needed help, I would never go to that clinic. How would anyone be able to trust them with their innermost fears. It sounds like it the people who run it care more about publicity than their patients.
The article does not appear to be legitimate, anbrida, can you supply the link to it? A good portion of the statements do not ring true - they are not the kind of statements one would expect to come from a medical professional - and don't sound like they would be coming from Diana, either. None of it jives. Lots of red flags in what the person quoted is claiming - like using banquets for 'force-feeding' - very queer ideas being floated.

US Watcher is correct about someone's death not releasing anyone from confidentiality. What someone's death does is make it possible for anyone unscrupulous to make all sorts of claims with no danger of being contradicted by the person who has died. It seems like someone is getting cheap advertisement using the memory of Diana to promote themselves.

Later: Just googled Peggy Claude-Pierre - she is a very controversial figure in Canada. It makes sense that she is controversial if the quotes in the above article come from her.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:36 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
Diana was probably not the first royal to have eating disorders or other health issues or to feel lonely. Until recent times these issues were hidden or kept hidden from public view.

Diana was more or less expected to get over these problems or to keep a shift upper lip about it or get on with it so to speak. Some of these issues you can't easily get over or grow out of it or mature out of. You need some type of medical doctor or health professional to help one out, especially the eating disorder problems. Those around her really didn't totally understand this, I believe.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:42 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Diana was probably not the first royal to have eating disorders or other health issues or to feel lonely. Until recent times these issues were hidden or kept hidden from public view.

Diana was more or less expected to get over these problems or to keep a shift upper lip about it or get on with it so to speak. Some of these issues you can't easily get over or grow out of it or mature out of. You need some type of medical doctor or health professional to help one out, especially the eating disorder problems. Those around her really didn't totally understand this, I believe.
I agree with nascarlucy. As someone else on this thread pointed out, bulimia had only been recognized as a psychiatric disorder in the late 1970s. The royal family probably didn't handle it perfectly, but they probably didn't know what to do. I know someone who suffered from bulimia and I think her family handled it much worse than the royal family did.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 06-25-2012, 08:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Diana was more or less expected to get over these problems or to keep a shift upper lip about it or get on with it so to speak. Some of these issues you can't easily get over or grow out of it or mature out of. You need some type of medical doctor or health professional to help one out, especially the eating disorder problems. Those around her really didn't totally understand this, I believe.
We have evidence that members of the royal family understood that Diana had problems that were beyond 'just getting on with it'. Charles supplied health professional contacts and family members talked with Diana. Diana's sister suffered from the same eating disorder and went to a clinic in the 1970's - Diana would have known about this - and the Queen made herself available to Diana without any appointment necessary - that has to tell us something. The family was doing their best.

It appears that Diana never stayed with one therapist long enough to effect any 'cure' - however, part of the problem was that the mental health profession in the 1980's did not yet have a clear understanding of all eating disorders and the larger issues of which they are a symptom. They were just starting to look at the larger context for the symptoms. I believe they are still learning about it. Diana is an illustrative case.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
We have evidence that members of the royal family understood that Diana had problems that were beyond 'just getting on with it'. Charles supplied health professional contacts and family members talked with Diana. Diana's sister suffered from the same eating disorder and went to a clinic in the 1970's - Diana would have known about this - and the Queen made herself available to Diana without any appointment necessary - that has to tell us something. The family was doing their best.

It appears that Diana never stayed with one therapist long enough to effect any 'cure' - however, part of the problem was that the mental health profession in the 1980's did not yet have a clear understanding of all eating disorders and the larger issues of which they are a symptom. They were just starting to look at the larger context for the symptoms. I believe they are still learning about it.
Tyger, you are correct. There is a lot of evidence that Charles did call in medical professionals to try and help her. I also think that the royal family did the best they could with the information and understanding they had. When I said I agreed with Nascarlucy, I meant agreed that in the past, family members who suffered from depression and other health issues were urged to carry on anyway. Obviously, Diana's issues were far more serious.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 06-25-2012, 09:05 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,354
When I was about 14 years old, I saw an article in Teen Magazine about eating disorders. At the time, people were beginning to talk about this problem but at the time didn't label it as a psychiatric disorder. I'm not sure what they thought it was at the time (seemed like it was a medical or health issue rather than a psychiatric issue).

I remember at the time some parents talking about these eating disorders, but not really knowing much about it or what to do about it. They couldn't understand why someone would do this. I imagine you had eating disorders back in the day, but if seemed like there wasn't as many who had these eating disorders

As I got older, I knew teens and women who had this disorder. Not many but a few here and there. A lot of it had to do with a disorted view of themselves and their body (most thought they were fat, when they weren't). Some of it was self-esteem issue or not feeling good about oneself or not having control of one's life. Other times it had to do with other issues and this was a way to deal with their problems.

You can speculate but I don't really know what factor(s) led Diana to have eating disorders. I will say that I admire her for discussing this and sharing her story with the public.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 06-25-2012, 11:23 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 281
I just google the title of that article I posted before, and found the link. I have already re-edited my post such that it would not cause any copyright problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I am extremely troubled by the article you posted. Diana's death did not release any medical professional from "the bonds of confidentiality." The article does not refer to Ms Claude-Pierre as a doctor, so I assume she's not a doctor. If I, or someone I know, needed help, I would never go to that clinic. How would anyone be able to trust them with their innermost fears. It sounds like it the people who run it care more about publicity than their patients.
Why it bothers you? That person was not a professional doctor so her words was not reliable? And none of what she said was anything close to secret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Just googled Peggy Claude-Pierre - she is a very controversial figure in Canada. It makes sense that she is controversial if the quotes in the above article come from her.
I do the googling myself. As I understand she is controversial is because of her methods to treat eating disorder are not accepted by some professionals. Whether her words are reliable or not has nothing to do with the controversy of her methods to treat.

I am not interested to debate whether it is correct for Peggy Claude-Pierre to disclose Diana's conversation with her. I don't think it is related to Diana's mental illness either.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 06-26-2012, 12:44 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,074
"Whether her words are reliable or not" has everything to do with the discussion. She is claiming to be quoting Diana - she is having Diana say things and claim things that are 'unusual' for Diana to say and claim - do we have evidence of Diana saying these things in other situations? The credibility of the source is at issue. To claim these conversations after Diana dies makes it all suspect. But maybe it happened - I'd just like to see more corroboration.

Anyway, side issue, I agree.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 06-26-2012, 01:20 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
Charles did ask helps from Lauren Von Der Pool, who was a *Jungian*. To me Carl Jung's theory sounds more a myth than a science. I really suspect, with such little education as Diana had, whether she was able to communicate with Von Der Pool at all.
Laurens van der Post was an author - not a therapist. I don't think a conversation with van der Post would qualify as therapy. The evidence is that Charles connected Diana with actual therapists. Its obvious that whatever was attempted simply did not work - in hindsight we know that. Diana should have been able to hear what her sister was saying to her, too, but she didn't. Friends - who we can assume loved her - who tried to talk to her, got shut out. The situation was not easy.

The blame game is part of the illness. Always making it Charles' fault - or the BRF's fault - is merely repeating Diana's casting blame elsewhere so that she did not have to deal with her issues - which were present long before she even met Charles. The partner of such a person - as Charles was - gets trapped into: "I am ill because of you - if you could be different - if you could behave differently - I would be well." Not so. Healing happens when the person accepts that they are responsible for their own reactions and choices - and that trying to control others to this extent (it is a control issue) is the reverse gesture needed for finding acceptance and love.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 06-26-2012, 02:22 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Guangzhou, China
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
"Whether her words are reliable or not" has everything to do with the discussion. She is claiming to be quoting Diana - she is having Diana say things and claim things that are 'unusual' for Diana to say and claim - do we have evidence of Diana saying these things in other situations? The credibility of the source is at issue. To claim these conversations after Diana dies makes it all suspect. But maybe it happened - I'd just like to see more corroboration.

Anyway, side issue, I agree.
I think you got me wrong here. You said Peggy is a controversial person in Canada, and I found out it's the way she treats eating disorder being controversial, not her honesty being controversial. So I said the controversy of her way to treat eating disorder does not imply her words in that article is not reliable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 06-26-2012, 08:21 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 2,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Tyger, you are correct. There is a lot of evidence that Charles did call in medical professionals to try and help her. I also think that the royal family did the best they could with the information and understanding they had.
I've read this also; therapists were called in on at least three separate times, but Diana did not cooperate.
She was highly suspicious of Charles and felt the RF was ganging up on her, planning to say she was mad to justify taking her sons away from her.

This wasn't true, but neither was it true when Diana said she got no help from the RF. She got considerable help, but rejected it.

Instead she turned to psychics, palm readers, and other assorted quacks who would tell her what she wanted to hear.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anorexia, bulimia, diana princess of wales, eating disorders, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen fabiola queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:28 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]