The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
View Poll Results: Was Diana the most famous woman of the 20th century?
Yes 151 47.04%
No 170 52.96%
Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #321  
Old 01-28-2018, 10:29 AM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Texas, United States
Posts: 3,665
I am of the opinion that Diana looked prettier in her 20's. For me as she aged she got less attractive especially as her hair got shorter.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 01-28-2018, 12:13 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 565
I would put Diana in the same supernova category as Marilyn Monroe, Jackie Onassis and maybe Elizabeth Taylor.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:55 PM
Nico's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I would put Diana in the same supernova category as Marilyn Monroe, Jackie Onassis and maybe Elizabeth Taylor.
Yes an icon, among many many others ...
But "The Most Beautiful or Famous Woman of the 20th Century?" is a bit far fetched, if not ridiculous ...
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 01-28-2018, 02:01 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
IMO the perception of Diana as pretty or beautiful is a function of her fashion. She is definitely a creature of the 1980's. As she began to dress for the camera, accentuating allure, she became a sensation. JMO.

The poll is deceptive. Diana is definitely a notable person of the 20th century, but less for any 'beauty' than the scandals that she generated. IMO.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 01-28-2018, 03:51 PM
Elan's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kalispell, United States
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
IMO the perception of Diana as pretty or beautiful is a function of her fashion. She is definitely a creature of the 1980's. As she began to dress for the camera, accentuating allure, she became a sensation.
As mentioned about Diana cleaning flats or working as a Nanny, you have to ask what might have been --- at 16 working at a place like 'Harrods' for a couple of years, becoming familiar with others in the fashion industry, some weight loss, finally a few assignments modeling clothes..

A pretty good career would have commenced, right ?
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 01-28-2018, 04:46 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elan View Post
As mentioned about Diana cleaning flats or working as a Nanny, you have to ask what might have been --- at 16 working at a place like 'Harrods' for a couple of years, becoming familiar with others in the fashion industry, some weight loss, finally a few assignments modeling clothes..

A pretty good career would have commenced, right ?
That's a huge maybe. In those days I think she would have continued the nanny-like gigs until she married, at which point she would have melted into the aristocratic background. No 'career' would have been required so why strive for one?

If the scenario you posit occurred (seems unlikely to my mind), anything's possible if there is drive. Modeling takes drive. She was fortunate that Lord Snowdon was one of her portraitists (as well as Richard Avedon). Snowdon really created some amazing portraits of Diana (as he did with Margaret and Anne).

Could she have run the gamut of poses modeling requires? Which includes 'being ugly' for the camera? Who knows. One has to really like that kind of stuff, be willing to 'deconstruct' oneself for a shoot. She didn't have that kind of training, or raw edged 'hunger' (need) to succeed in a career that requires that kind of 'submission'. Too complicated a person imo.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:54 PM
Elan's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kalispell, United States
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
She was fortunate that Lord Snowdon was one of her portraitists (as well as Richard Avedon). Snowdon really created some amazing portraits of Diana (as he did with Margaret and Anne).

Could she have run the gamut of poses modeling requires? Which includes 'being ugly' for the camera? Who knows. One has to really like that kind of stuff, be willing to 'deconstruct' oneself for a shoot. She didn't have that kind of training, or raw edged 'hunger' (need) to succeed in a career that requires that kind of 'submission'. Too complicated a person imo.
Well, the world has changed with how the term "portraitist" is used. I don't deny that Lord Snowdon and Avedon are talented in their field but tend to view photographers distinctly apart from people like Vermeer, Rembrandt etc. De Dienes w/ a 1945 camera achieved fame with Marilyn, but also revealed that he was awestruck the day she walked in. Like a gift had been sent to him.

Diana as 'fortunate' is reverse of that.
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 01-28-2018, 09:06 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
That's a huge maybe. In those days I think she would have continued the nanny-like gigs until she married, at which point she would have melted into the aristocratic background. No 'career' would have been required so why strive for one?

If the scenario you posit occurred (seems unlikely to my mind), anything's possible if there is drive. Modeling takes drive. She was fortunate that Lord Snowdon was one of her portraitists (as well as Richard Avedon). Snowdon really created some amazing portraits of Diana (as he did with Margaret and Anne).

Could she have run the gamut of poses modeling requires? Which includes 'being ugly' for the camera? Who knows. One has to really like that kind of stuff, be willing to 'deconstruct' oneself for a shoot. She didn't have that kind of training, or raw edged 'hunger' (need) to succeed in a career that requires that kind of 'submission'. Too complicated a person imo.
I see what you mean about "submission". Diana would never do what Linda Evangelista did.
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 01-28-2018, 09:23 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I see what you mean about "submission". Diana would never do what Linda Evangelista did.
Not sure what you mean, but it also requires considerable discipline, which Diana never evidenced in her early years (and maybe never). I just don't see her as 'bothering'. Unless she met up with a Svengali.
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 01-28-2018, 09:43 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Not sure what you mean, but it also requires considerable discipline, which Diana never evidenced in her early years (and maybe never). I just don't see her as 'bothering'. Unless she met up with a Svengali.
I think Cara Delevingne submits, when a favorite photog of hers wants a controversial pic and suggests things like drastic haircuts or black lipstick. Cara is not afraid to be unpretty.
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old 01-28-2018, 10:02 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I think Cara Delevingne submits, when a favorite photog of hers wants a controversial pic and suggests things like drastic haircuts or black lipstick. Cara is not afraid to be unpretty.
Exactly. And didn't Linda Evangelista create the pixie haircut in the late 80's that became a rage? She was instructed to cut her hair, I think. Diana's haircut may have been inspired from that quarter. It suited her, and then we see how Snowdon and Avedon worked with that. They created some genuinely striking (photographic) portraits of Diana.

In terms of fashion, Diana discovered what worked for her (clothes that accentuated her slim figure, hugging her for all they were worth, no form hiding clothes for her). Or what worked for the camera, who knows how she was thinking, except we do know that she assiduously followed the press commentary on her fashion at an event. The result is that there is a predictability to Diana's 'style', driven by allure considerations (I think) in her way of making her fashion decisions.

But to the subject of the thread: she was not beautiful in a film-star way (I don't think, she hadn't the eyes for that) but pretty and charming when young, growing into an attractive woman. There were so many truly stellar beauties in the 20th century. I don't think Diana achieves that, though being attractive is no slouch achievement. We should all be so. She dressed well and created an excellent, and often compelling, impression due to her fashion choices (sparkly gowns and all).

As for being 'most famous', I'd say she was 'most famous' when her scandals were making tabloid headlines. I'd say she was 'most famous' in her time, that lasted an amazingly brief 15 years or so. But there are 80 years of the 20th century that was taken up by so many other 'beauties' and 'most famous' like Wallis Simpson. (Saying that I don't mean to get a rise out of anyone, read the sentence structure carefully. )
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 01-28-2018, 10:29 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 565
Wallis was so sneered at and IMO was regarded as a fast woman, what my mom called a hussy. She was famous like Ethel Rosenberg or Ma Barker or Tokyo Rose was famous.

Diana did have an aristocratic look. A somewhat long nose did that. If she had a little piggy Matt Damon nose I don't think Charles would have married her.
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 01-28-2018, 11:40 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Wallis was so sneered at and IMO was regarded as a fast woman, what my mom called a hussy. She was famous like Ethel Rosenberg or Ma Barker or Tokyo Rose was famous.

Diana did have an aristocratic look. A somewhat long nose did that. If she had a little piggy Matt Damon nose I don't think Charles would have married her.
'Most famous' does not signify qualities, just famousness. Wallis Simpson is definitely in the category of 'most famous' in her time, and even past her time.

Diana's 'aristocratic look' escapes me. Must be a European sensibility. She was attractive.

CLEO DE MERODE was 'most famous' at the beginning of the 20th century, and could reasonably be classed as one of the 'most beautuful', too, what with Gustav Klimt painting her. Just look at these pictures. This is beauty 'most beautiful'.

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cléo_de_Mérode

The beauty of the artist..... what's behind the eyes. Someone like Diana doesn't come close. JMO.

__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:24 AM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 565
The thread is essentially about the beauty and fame of Diana. If a man with the talent of Gustav Klimt painted her, that would be a painting. The fame part of Diana prohibited artists from being bold in painting her. That painting at Althorp with the white blouse and green skirt was so timid. Joshua Reynolds was so good with her forebearers, and she got stuck with that bad painting.

Actually, an old master whom I love, Maurice Quentin de la Tour, would have been the best painter of Diana. He excelled at subtle humor around the eyes and mouth. If you had a secret and you posed for him, his portrait would show you as such.
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:49 AM
Elan's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Kalispell, United States
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
But to the subject of the thread: she was not beautiful in a film-star way (I don't think, she hadn't the eyes for that) but pretty and charming when young, growing into an attractive woman. There were so many truly stellar beauties in the 20th century. I don't think Diana achieves that, though being attractive is no slouch achievement. We should all be so. She dressed well and created an excellent, and often compelling, impression due to her fashion choices (sparkly gowns and all).
You may have noticed that great beauty is seldom a perfectly formed, logical arrangement that creates the most magic. Diana's nose to experts lacked feminine perfection, yet still compliments and gave her a wonderful profile. We should all be grateful no doctor of rhinoplasty came near it.

Consider a film like 'Chinatown' that didn't receive awards that year, but did well with the public. Because the sequel was expected to be a hit, people were hired and money put into it. When it was released it made sense, but it didn't make 'magic'.

In an odd sort of way, Diana is like 'Chinatown', with multiple levels of drama building...along with a script that got altered by Polanski. Not the typical 'Hollywood' ending.
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:22 AM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
The thread is essentially about the beauty and fame of Diana.
Understood. The thread seems to be positing the question: is Diana the 'most beautiful' or is she the 'most famous' woman of the 20th century? Impossible to answer, of course, since someone can have notoriety for a few years, even a decade or two, but can that then be spread across a century? Across the world? Quite possibly, in Diana's case, it can be so, because of the combination of her attractiveness (youth), advantageous marriage to a prince and heir, and then the scandals and final tragic death. This sum of all facts raises her story above the norm, even though there are many women more beautiful than she. So perhaps she is 'most famous'. I could see that (though not for the best of reasons). It is her tragedy that drives the 'most famous'.

However, since Diana came into the public eye in the last 20 years of the 20th century, it is difficult to state categorically that she eclipses all the beautiful and famous women of the preceding 80 years. Her drama certainly is compelling, and it helps that she looked classy. I would be more inclined to see Diana as part of the celebrity culture of the 20th century: one of it's foremost adepts as well as one of its unfortunate victims (that will be the lasting final line of her memory, I think).

Diana dominated the tabloid press for close to 2 decades (and that's 2 decades out of people's lives, that's a powerful influence) and she elicited profound reactions (like Eva Peron in Argentina), but not because of beauty alone as 'most beautiful' (though being attractive and well dressed made her sell-able) but because of scandal associated with her social status (we would not have known about her had she not been the wife to the heir to the British throne). She was an attractive woman but for some reason not the femme fatale so many beautiful women are. Quite the reverse: she seemed particularly afflicted when it came to that. All-in-all a curious story that will endlessly fascinate, and for that alone 'most famous'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
If a man with the talent of Gustav Klimt painted her, that would be a painting. The fame part of Diana prohibited artists from being bold in painting her. That painting at Althorp with the white blouse and green skirt was so timid. Joshua Reynolds was so good with her forebearers, and she got stuck with that bad painting.
Interesting idea. Not sure I agree. Why would fame preclude painters from painting her? She did not inspire that kind of awe imo. In general she was 'ordinary'. Great artistry did not flow through her. She did not inspire the artist. So it seems. She may have inspired fantasy and lust, but great passion did not take place, except in her fandom (which is not to be discounted). The divine passion eluded her, however.

However, unlike you (maybe) I do think the photographer is also a portraitist, and there is no question that Diana was well-served by many of her photos.
__________________

__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
celebrity, diana princess of wales, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most Famous Royal Family In Europe (Excluding British)? BritishRoyalist Royal Chit Chat 30 06-17-2014 06:16 PM
Who's the most beautiful royal woman?? QRania General Royal Discussion Archive 461 05-05-2007 09:55 AM




Popular Tags
alqasimi aristocracy armenia belgian royal family birthday celebration castles charles of wales chittagong countess of snowdon crown crown prince hussein crown prince hussein's future wife crown princess victoria current events cyprus danish history denmark duchess of sussex duke & duchess of cambridge; duke of cambridge duke of sussex dutch history felipe vi foundation french revolution friendly city genealogy germany head of the house henry v hill house of bourbon house of glucksburg house of orange-nassau house of saxe-coburg and gotha kiko letter lithuanian castles marriage meghan markle memoir mohammed vi monaco christening monaco history monarchism monogram naples nelson mandela bay nobel 2019 norwegian royal family official visit palaces potential areas prince harry prince of wales rumania russian imperial family saudi arabia shakespeare south africa south korea spain spanish history state visit sweden swedish royal family swedish royalty tracts united kingdom usa


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises
×