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View Poll Results: Was Diana the most famous woman of the 20th century?
Yes 146 47.56%
No 161 52.44%
Voters: 307. You may not vote on this poll

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  #301  
Old 05-29-2016, 06:39 PM
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If Marilyn Monroe can't be counted as one of the most famous people, I don't know who is. Also, both Givenchy and Dolce & Gabbana have had various styles with shirts with Marilyn on them so I definitely don't think it's only a US thing.
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  #302  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:00 PM
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Yes, of course MM is one of the most famous people of all time. So was Diana. However, as with everyone fame fades over time. Take Sarah Bernhardt for instance. Admittedly the 19th/early 20th century was not a time of celebrity culture, but for a generation at least Bernhardt was the most famous and admired actress of her day. Who remembers her today? Virtually no-one.

MM left no descendants. Diana did. For so long as there is a monarchy in GB she will live on in William, George and his descendants. Even after monarchy is finished there will be books, films, videos (or future equivalent) of the Kings and Queens of the 21st century, people with Diana's blood in their veins. That is itself is a kind of immortality.
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  #303  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:10 PM
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But Marilyn Monroe hasn't stopped being famous, that's the point we were making. I'm also not sure what her not having children has to do with fame of the individual themselves. I don't see Diana in pop culture today. That doesn't mean she wasn't once famous, just that there have been people that are more famous.
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  #304  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:26 PM
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I'm just saying that Diana will live on in future generations of famous people. That in itself guarantees a certain immortality, or fame if you will.

Having a couple of designers putting your image on some garments in a collection doesn't guarantee that people are regularly conversing about you in everyday life, which is an offshoot of fame isn't it? (If Diana is not famous nearly twenty years after her death why are all these threads still around? Why are there tributes to her elsewhere on the Internet?)

Nor do images in present pop culture guarantee that you will be remembered fifty years from now (which will be about a hundred years from Marilyn's death) a time when Diana's grandson George may be on the throne.
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  #305  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:43 PM
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Your not hearing or understanding what is being said. Marilyn is in the stratosphere of fame Diana is still on earth level. There are different levels of fame and Diana can't compare to Marilyn's whether Marilyn had children or not. This is not a case of if and when William will be king; Queen Mary had 2 sons be king and you would be hard pressed to find someone call her famous. She wasn't a part of the general publics talking points when her grand daughter was on the throne during her life. Another example is the Queen Mother, also famous but not going into orbit famous.
And Marilyn may not have children but clearly her work has had an influence on generation after generation. Perhaps its a cultural thing, but if you go to Japan and ask random people I'm sure more would be able to recognize Marilyn Monroe or The Beatles before the recognize Princess Diana.
You seem to refuse to admit that there are different levels of fame: Anne Boleyn is more famous than Jane Seymour though they both were wives of a king and mothers of a monarch.
Queen Victoria and Elizabeth are more famous than Quee Anne and Mary.
Yes Diana was famous but it has dwindled over time like that of most famous people; and then there are the select few whose fame grows after they die year after year and decade after decade and with no help from children or grandchildren just them: Charlie Chaplin, The Beatles, Mozart, Leonardo DA Vinci etc.
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  #306  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:43 PM
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I'm just not understanding what that really has to do with her fame. Is George going to put her on the pound note or build shrines to her all over the world? Pop culture does dictate fame with people, I mean it's in the word; "popular" culture. Not everyone reads books or pays attention to the RF. However, billions of people watch movies and see iconic pictures that don't have any language barrier.

A lot of historical figures are so iconic precisely because they've been included in popular culture. Shakespeare managed to change the image of kings like Richard III and Henry VIII with the mass public. Fame is about having the most number of people know who you are.

This is a very niche interest. This forum exists because people here want to talk about the royals, however, that does not necessarily equate it with popular interests.
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  #307  
Old 05-29-2016, 09:53 PM
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I disagree about Marilyn Monroe (whom incidentally I liked. I have seen all her films and regard her as an excellent light comedienne) and get accused of not understanding popular culture! Maybe you don't realise completely because you probably weren't adults, the level of worldwide fame that Diana enjoyed during her lifetime. And yes, I was in Japan a few years ago and young people did recognise pictures of Diana that were in a magazine, so it's lasted there.

The Beatles: Ringo was absolutely crushed several years ago when young people in his native Britain didn't recognise his name. Here in Australia a talent show dropped having contestants singing music of the Beatles because it wasn't 'young people's music any more'. Do young Gen Y's and Z's regularly play Beatles music. You never hear much of it on radio and my grandkids and their wide circle of friends certainly aren't interested. Stratosphere, anyone??

Very few people under the age of fifty have seen a Chaplin film all the way through. Have you, cos I have? Several of them in fact. Yes, there is the iconic figure/image of Chaplin as the little Tramp that means that some recognise him, but if you asked ten people today especially those in their twenties and younger, what they knew about Chaplin I'd guarantee, unless you caught a silent film buff, it would be very very little. Stratosphere??

Anyway, I'm clearly not going to win this argument as you are both clear that Diana's fame has faded while The Beatles (I was and am a fan incidentally, and remember them at the height of their world wide fame) and Charlie Chaplin have not. I disagree but I'm withdrawing. You've won.
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  #308  
Old 05-29-2016, 10:38 PM
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Beatles broke up in 1970 right? Lennon was dead in 1980, 20 yrs later, 1 is released and is the best selling album in the world. Do you think only people alive in the 60's were buying that CD? As someone who was not alive in the 60s but brought that album I can tell you the answer is no. Or the reaction to The Beatles finally coming to iTunes just a few years ago, I'm sure all those people buying their songs weren't 65yr olds.
And I wouldn't be surprised that no one recognizes Paul and Ringo circa 2016, show them an image of the 4 from the 60's and it will probably be a different story.
Diana was an icon for awhile, but since the turn of the century it has become evident her image doesn't have longevity of other famous people. It doesn't mean she isn't still relevant she's just not as influential as others.
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  #309  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:47 AM
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my brother who is actually older than me didn't even know who she was. When you're in the midst of something, ie. lived through the time of Diana, it can seem like it's the most covered story of all time, but in the 20th century? The whole of the century? I mean maybe I'll say the most famous woman of the 1990s, but certainly not of the whole century.

I think young adults in Britain might recognize Diana. However, worldwide, I doubt it. Some people have had a more lasting effect, which is to me a reason for why they have yet to stop being relevant. Probably related to what it is people pay attention to.

And if we're going by the fact that I don't remember how much Diana was hounded, my answer would be that
I don't have to remember, it has been well documented and I believe it. However, Marilyn Monroe was too. She couldn't go anywhere without the paparazzi following her and having people know who she was.

What I was and is still confused about is what having children has to do with being famous. I think the most famous thing about Diana was that she was a princess not that she was a mother, even though she was. The fame came instantly because she was linked to a prince. If you're saying that her children are her legacy then I'd agree, but I don't see how that equates to her being more famous. She was famous on her own.
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  #310  
Old 06-01-2016, 01:19 PM
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About seven years ago my sorority chapter held its 50th anniversary celebration. We were grouped by our decade of initiation and upon each table was a photo of a female public figure ie: 50's Marilyn Monroe, 60's Twiggy, 70's Farah Fawcett and for mine-80's-Diana. I have to admit that I was surprised by how many young women from the 2000's didn't recognize the late Princess of Wales but knew Marilyn Monroe. While they may have been born when she was still alive, she was not someone they recognized immediately.
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  #311  
Old 06-01-2016, 02:08 PM
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Yeah, famous people from music/Hollywood/sports tend to get recognized more. I'm pretty sure more people would recognize MM more than they would Churchill. Sad, but true.
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  #312  
Old 08-30-2016, 05:10 PM
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I find it hard to beleive. Inevitably Diana isn't as well known to younger people as she was to people who remember her heyday, but I dot think she's less well known than Monroe. There are books bout her, films etc. Not in teh same way because she was a member of the Premier family and is still realted ot them through her sons so for another generation, or 2,I dont think we're going to get the sort of books and films and so on that have been done about Monroe.. which is in a way a good thing as they are largely fictionalised and scandal ridden..
At least I hope that Diana's legacy will be more dignified than Poor Marilyn's.
And Diana still sells, why are there stories in the papers on a slow day? or TV programmes?
And No George isn't going to put her on a £5 note but its possible that as a member of hte RF and a famous one, she will be on it one day...
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  #313  
Old 08-30-2016, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post


About seven years ago my sorority chapter held its 50th anniversary celebration. We were grouped by our decade of initiation and upon each table was a photo of a female public figure ie: 50's Marilyn Monroe, 60's Twiggy, 70's Farah Fawcett and for mine-80's-Diana. I have to admit that I was surprised by how many young women from the 2000's didn't recognize the late Princess of Wales but knew Marilyn Monroe. While they may have been born when she was still alive, she was not someone they recognized immediately.
I actually believe that the youth of UK would certainly remember Diana over other countries such as America, Japan, etc. Her life and sad death will always be part of their history. My grandchildren in the 19 through 27 age group didn't know who she was when shown a photo. She was never relevant to them as the Royal families of any country are now not relevant to them. Most here can't understand my love of all history so of course royals fit into that category and I read and remember. JMO
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  #314  
Old 09-03-2016, 02:48 AM
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weird, but perhaps a good thing. If you look at a lot of the Marlyn Monroe memory stuff, it is tacky (I'm a fan of hers and love some of her pictures) but I hate the endless books and films about her sex life and all the men she allegedly slept with or secretly married. I think that Dianas memory wont be quite so tacky, though there is some of that stuff for her too.
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  #315  
Old 05-07-2017, 10:32 AM
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Diana's books usually talk about the men she slept with as well; the only difference is that Marilyn was an actress and Diana was a married mother and Princess.
I tend to also give Marilyn more of a pass because the way she grew up was bound to cause major issues for her as an adult.
Anyway back on topic, you can still see young girls emulating Marilyn to this day in and out of Hollywood.

I don't know if I've mentioned this here but Diana was definitely not that beautiful. Of course she couldnt compare to Grace, but also Princess Margaret was more beautiful than her. Don't get me wrong, she was pretty and was a vision on het wedding day, but by the late 80's she looked too masculine IMO.
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  #316  
Old 05-27-2017, 07:30 AM
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Margaret wasn't more beautiful than her for sure. She always looked sly... Diana was striking and beautiful and IMO her looks improved as she grew older....
As for Marilyn yes girls DO imitate her look to get on in Hollywood, but is that a good thing? MN had to sleep her way into her first film jobs, that was the way it was for all but the luckiest girls in the film world in those days.
so wen you think of her impoverished fractured and unhappy background, its not surprising that she had to prostitute herself to get a chance to show her talenet. Diana was NOT in that way of life... And while I don't believe she was a nun, or needs to be seen as a virgin angel, I don't think that her sex life was any differnet ot that of most women of her age, class and time.. so it should not be "part of her legacy" in the way htat it too often is.
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