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  #241  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:33 PM
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I don't believe Sophie tried to copy Diana's style or personality. The two ladies did have a similar look though. Even Sophie mentioned in her engagement interview. Sophie came across a picture of Diana in the papers. She had to do a double take to see if it was herself.

Diana's private mistake was one thing, but Sophie pretty joined a lot of people in admiring Diana's work and impact on people.
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  #242  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:45 PM
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I agree Mermaid. IMHO it was more a case of Sophie wearing what other career women were wearing then as well rather than "mumsie." Honestly it reminds me of what other royal ladies were wearing in the mid-nineties to their dressier day engagements then. If we were to look at the fashion threads for Infantas Elena and Cristina, then Princess Alexandra, Princess Astrid etc..we'd see a similar style.

As for rift between Diana and Sophie, I believe that those stories were tabloid fodder or yesterday's version of "click bait."
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  #243  
Old 06-27-2016, 06:15 PM
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I thought that the suit S wore for her first appearance as E's fiancé looked like the blue suit that Di wore for her engagement, which was rather "mumsy" and Di didn't like how she looked in it. Di had abandoned that look by the 90s and was wearing sleeker smarter clothes. I thought that Sophie still wore the rather fussy styles that Di had worn in her first few years as a royal.
I don't think that they hated each other, but I doubt if they liked each other either. I feel that Diana problaby DID feel miffed that Sophie seemed to click with the RF better than she had. She said much the same about Fergie who was her friend, that she couldn't understand how Ferg had so much energy and was bouncing around at Bamoral being horsey and again getting on with the RF better than she'd done.
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  #244  
Old 06-27-2016, 06:38 PM
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The suit Sophie wore for the Engagement appearance was charcoal grey.

The Engagement happened in 1999- Diana died in 1997 so she definately wouldn't have commented on it.

They are two very different women from two very different backgrounds and I think Sophie has done a wonderful job.
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  #245  
Old 06-27-2016, 08:28 PM
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Good point Nichola. Diana might have seen Sophie at private family events ie: Lady Sarah's wedding, but any official engagements as Edward's fiance or wife would have taken place after Diana's death.
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  #246  
Old 06-27-2016, 09:25 PM
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Sophie was supposed to have said, during her conversation with the faux sheikh, that 'the public have put me on the plinth vacated by Diana'.


I think Paul Burrell was the source for the story about the nasty exchange between Diana and Sophie in front of the other royals including Princess Margaret, to which they all took offence.

It was something about Sophie's skirt coming from Marks and Spencer's and money being tight, Diana supposed, since Sophie's father's retirement. I don't believe Diana would have said anything of that sort to Sophie, especially in front of the Queen, of whom she was always a little frightened. However, I wouldn't have been surprised if Diana had made a couple of remarks about Sophie's clothing and style to Burrell, which he later embroidered into a full blown drama.
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  #247  
Old 06-27-2016, 11:00 PM
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Agreed re Burrell's involvement.
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  #248  
Old 06-28-2016, 06:06 AM
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We've now come full circle back to the story that originally started this thread back in 2007.

By the time this story supposedly happened, Charles and Diana were separated and living totally different lives. The entire picture painted by the story just seems odd to me. Diana sitting nestled in the bosom of the royal womenfolk talking to Sophie just doesn't ring true for me. As time progressed, Diana wanted less and less to do with Charles and his family and probably would have felt very uncomfortable spending time with them.

Looking at the Diana years, a lot comes from the media, "tell all" books by Morton and Burrell and frankly, a lot of manipulation by Diana of the press herself to "strike back" and "get her story out there" and what the public wanted and got and ate up like a box of chocolates was just as much of a fairy tale as the media made the royal wedding of 1981 out to be. The plot just changed to include the evil stepmother and stepsisters among the cast of evil nemeses. It all made for a glorious soap opera that millions followed but one thing we have to remember is that the prime focus was the persona of Diana with everyone else being bit players that made her life miserable, done her wrong and persecuted her.

I do admire Diana for a lot of things that she did publicly although I believe in her private life, she brought a lot of the ills upon herself in the long run. I also think that just looking at the media stories and publications and interviews during that time is tunnel vision when looking at other members of the royal family that Diana really couldn't find her niche in and fit in as a member of the family. This became obvious to me when the "most famous" thing Sophie is known for is her interview with the fake shiekh. That is looking at a person that has definitely fit in well with the BRF, and is loved and respected from a "Diana years" point of view and is very narrow.

In order to really compare the likes and differences between people in the public eye, its important to have a grasp on all the personages in the picture rather than the focus on just one person.

Just my opinion.
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  #249  
Old 06-29-2016, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichola View Post
The suit Sophie wore for the Engagement appearance was charcoal grey.

The Engagement happened in 1999- Diana died in 1997 so she definately wouldn't have commented on it.

They are two very different women from two very different backgrounds and I think Sophie has done a wonderful job.
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..
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  #250  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..
Just to clarify things, when this fake shiekh business happened, HM, The Queen was very much behind Sophie and supportive throughout the entire thing. Its been stated that the Queen's reaction according to Buckingham Palace was:

"In a separate statement from Buckingham Palace, the Queen lashed out at the "entrapment, subterfuge, innuendo and untruths to which the Earl and Countess have been subject in recent days."

The Queen said she has supported the desire of both Sophie and Edward to continue pursuing their working careers, but noted in so doing, they're "always open to accusations of pursuing their royal status in pursuit of their own business interests."

Sophie's choice words fuel Royal row - The Globe and Mail

(be mindful that also the Globe and News of the World are not what is a good representation of responsible journalism)

To me, that sounds more like a mama bear circling those that would hurt her family rather than someone that would lay down the law and enforce royal duties on both Edward and Sophie. So, the insinuation that the Queen, all embarrassed to the hilt by her son and daughter-in-law forces them to "toe the line" just doesn't ring true for me. To this day, Sophie and HM are well known to be quite close, share similar interests and with Bagshot Park close to Windsor Castle, spend private times together. Both Edward and Sophie have represented HM over the years enthusiastically and particularly in work pertaining to the Duke of Edinburgh Awards Scheme which will be Edward's in the future. They are the go to couple for representing the BRF at occasions overseas such as weddings and funerals and out of all of the BRF, probably have the closest relationships with their European counterparts.

The notion that how Sophie fits within the BRF is the luck of the draw is by far, IMO, a very untrue and derogatory statement.
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  #251  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:42 AM
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I think that discussing Sophie's role today and and Diana is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Sophie is nowhere near to the person she was when Diana was alive. The decades have changed the public as well.

I'm a bit off topic, but one thing I have always admired Sophie and Edward for is their ability to learn from their own and others' gaffes. They are rather spectacular today because they learned from experience.
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  #252  
Old 06-29-2016, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..
I agree with you that Diana and Sophie had similar haircuts BUT it wasn't a unique haircut- it was a popular 1990s haircut.

I agree with you that Sophie was in the process of taking Diana's place- with Charles and Andrew divorced she was the Queen's only daughter in law for a number of years; and the second highest ranking lady in the royal family following the deaths of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret until Charles married Camilla.

I regard Sophie as a good wife and mother, fulfils her duties to a high standard and is a popular member of the royal family and I don't see that as just being luck of the draw- she's earned her place.

Although Edward and Sophie's business interests weren't a roaring success (and the fake sheik thing a sorry episode) at least they tried to have independent ventures... which can't be said for other members of the family.

It sounds like you're a Diana fan. I am a Diana fan too. However, I get the impression your view is very black and white and you have based your judgement of both women on tabloid fodder when we will never know the truth about their meetings. I regard them as two different women who were a member of the royal family in different decades and they have both contributed in their own way- I don't think it's cool to knock one woman down to build another woman up.
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  #253  
Old 06-29-2016, 05:57 PM
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It has nothing to do with "knocking another woman to build one up". Diana was massively much more popular than Sophie. that's a fact. If S thought that she was being seen as the new Diana she was sadly mistaken. And IMO she and Edward are a pair, their business ventures have been a shambles and the Fake Sheik interview a really low low spot. I would not like Sophie or Edward becuase of who they are, regardless of whether Di had existed or not..
I cant' see waht is "tabloid fodder" about the fact that Ed and S seem to have insisted on going on with their business ventures when it was obvious that tehy were not successful and that PR is not a very good field for a royal. I have read in a bio of the queen that the Court felt she was too indulgent with them in allowing them to keep on their businesses which made losses and debts, which infuriated Charles -when Ed's film company followed William around at his university, when the Press had agreed to leave him alone...
I believe that the Sheik interivew was the end, and even the queen realised then that she had to stop them going on with business and put them on royal duties. So IMO if Sophie gets on better with the queen than Di did, it is just luck or else she's working very hard at it. It is luck IMO if she shares the queen's interests or has a personality that the queen finds easy to get on with.. Just as it was luck that Sarah at first amused the queen and shared her horsey interests.. whereas Diana didnt.
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  #254  
Old 06-29-2016, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It has nothing to do with "knocking another woman to build one up". Diana was massively much more popular than Sophie. that's a fact. If S thought that she was being seen as the new Diana she was sadly mistaken.
Diana was massively popular for a short period of time and a lot of that was the interest in her marriage going down the tubes. Sophie, by the time she joined the royal family, would have been a fool to even think about emulating Diana. It would definitely be "what not to do as a princess" by looking at Diana's years of being The Princess of Wales.
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  #255  
Old 06-29-2016, 06:59 PM
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My apologies if I've picked you up incorrectly.
I suppose we read books and newspapers and pick things up differently.
I agree with Diana being much more popular... she could have been our next Queen after all and the media and public loved her.
Regarding PR not being a very good field, Sophie married Edward in her mid 30s and had a career before meeting him... and was allowed to carry on that career with the permission of the Queen after her marriage. She was accused of exploiting her position after that but I also feel she was in a vulnerable position too- it would never have worked in the long run.
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  #256  
Old 07-02-2016, 03:16 AM
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Exacltly PR is really NOT a business that a royal should engage in. I think the queen should have put her feet firmly down, as soon as Soph married and said "No PR firm." And Sophie should have known it herself. Look at the whole fuss about Sarah writing books for money earlier.
And relaly there's no way that Sophie could replace Diana or have 1/10 of her popularity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was massively popular for a short period of time and a lot of that was the interest in her marriage going down the tubes. Sophie, by the time she joined the royal family, would have been a fool to even think about emulating Diana. It would definitely be "what not to do as a princess" by looking at Diana's years of being The Princess of Wales.
that is realy not the case. Diana's massive popularity stated from her engagement and all through the 80s she was very popular because she was attractive, charming well dressed and came across as warm and frendly and lively. She had years of unimaginable popularity based on herself, nothing to do with the end of her marriage. I would not call some 10 years a short time, Sophie should have been so lucky as to be as popular as Di for 1 year, let alone 10.
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  #257  
Old 07-02-2016, 04:51 AM
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Imho the BRF learned a lot from the Diana years, both good and bad. I don't think there will be a royal spouse whose popularity overshadowes "the firm" that much again...
Imo Sophie was and is very right for the spot she holds in the firm. And even Catherine, who potentially could have the position to outshine (imo) is much more a part of the royal collective than Diana was
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  #258  
Old 07-02-2016, 07:49 AM
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I agree that the RF clearly never want a really dazzling charismatic wife marrying into the family who might overshadow her husband... but IMO while they dont have Diana's bad qualities or follies, niether Sophie nor Kate have much of her good qualities. Kate will never overshadow William, she isn't realy into doing the royal work and while she's pretty and pleasant enough, she does not try hard enough, IMO. She just does about enough to pass muster, so does Sophie and in addition, she and Ed have gotten into messes that were bad enough in their way.
And i think that both of them try hard to fit in wit the RF and get on with them, whereas Diana after a while didn't try very hard...
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  #259  
Old 07-02-2016, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post

And relaly there's no way that Sophie could replace Diana or have 1/10 of her popularity

Doubt she wanted to replace Diana, and she doesn't need 1/10th of her popularity.
She's in a completely different position.
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  #260  
Old 07-02-2016, 08:58 AM
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Personally, I think that both Kate and Sophie, in their public role, show exceptional abilities to work with the RF and their husbands as team effort and neither is out for fame, glory and popularity for themselves.

Diana was very much in it for herself. Many, many examples have been given on how she'd pour over every inch of publicity written about her and get angry over negative press and not so flattering pictures. She fed on public opinion constantly whereas the other royal females don't.
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