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  #221  
Old 07-31-2016, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I read the same thing.

However, Diana resented most women who spent any time around Charles, like Kanga Tryon, Tiggy, etc.

So it's not like Fergie was a special case.
?? That's hardly teh same thing.. (Not that I think Sarah did spend time with Charles). Kanga was his ex mistress, Tiggy, Di convinced herself that Charles was having an affair with Tiggy, because Tig DID work for C, was friendly with him and was acting as a sort of Nanny ot the boys. I dont think that she was daft enough to fool herself that Sarah was having an affair with Charles, if only because the 2 of them weren't all that close to each other...
I think within a fairly shot time, Charles got bored with Sarah's silliness and hearty antics and probalby felt that as well as being annoying in herself, she also led his wife into vulgar and silly behaviour..
Yes Diana was somewhat paranoid in her last few years, I think but not to the extent of thinking that Charles would be invovled iwht his brothters's wife whom he didn't see much of and didn't seem to like very much.
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  #222  
Old 07-31-2016, 08:25 AM
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One thing that I've come to believe is that once Charles established a warm relationship with someone, it usually became a relationship that endured through the years. I do think he saw a lot of positive aspects in Sarah and so did Diana. One of Sarah's admirable qualities, to me, is that she took people as they are and has a very outgoing, very caring and very giving nature. This is shown to this day by having "the happiest divorce in the world" and she still retains a good relationship with her former mother in law and Andrew's family. Maybe not Philip, but Philip is a law unto himself.

Diana's nature was to feel threatened by anything and anyone that could possibly come between her and how she wanted things to be. A lot of people are this way and isn't right or isn't wrong. It was just her natural inclinations.

A lot of times having a focus on something that could possibly threaten something is exactly what makes that fear become a reality.
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  #223  
Old 07-31-2016, 02:18 PM
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I agree with this. The "bottom prodding" is the first occasion when Diana acted up in public. Before that Ascot, she was rather demure, although always friendly. When the rumour came out about her and Sarah dressing up as policewomen first came out, it sounded unbelievable. For one thing, impersonating police officers is illegal. Later on, when the story was confirmed and more details came out, we learned that they had closed the gates at BP as a joke. When Andrew came home, he thought that it was a sign of danger--a kidnap or terrorist threat--and drove away.


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I can't help feeling that perhaps that was the start of the end for Diana, though. I think that prior to Fergie joining the RF, she didn't do much wrong in public.
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  #224  
Old 07-31-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing that I've come to believe is that once Charles established a warm relationship with someone, it usually became a relationship that endured through the years. I do think he saw a lot of positive aspects in Sarah and so did Diana. One of Sarah's admirable qualities, to me, is that she took people as they are and has a very outgoing, very caring and very giving nature. This is shown to this day by having "the happiest divorce in the world" and she still retains a good relationship with her former mother in law and Andrew's family. Maybe not Philip, but Philip is a law unto himself.

A lot of times having a focus on something that could possibly threaten something is exactly what makes that fear become a reality.
I don't think so... I think Charles is quite as capable of being cool with people as Diana was.. look at how he cut off Kanga...
I don't think he cared much for Sarah, after the first year or so.. I mean it was pretty obvious that she was sily and vulgar, and I honestly don't know how the RF didn't see that... until it was too late.
Sarah and Andy may have a "friendly divorce" but Andrew really wanted the divorce.. According to what I've read, the queen hoped to keep them together, but andrew was insistent.. and while he's at heart a decent guy and has remained loyal to Sarah ( at times ot a ridiculous degree) I don't think that the queen is that fond of her.. If I recall, Sarah was forced to stay for years at a farmhouse on the estate during Xmas, when her girls were staying with the RF.. I thin that now of late, the queen has mended fences, because she's getting older and Sarah is the mother of her grandchildren but I'm sure Phil will not forgive what he saw as S's stupidity and disloyalty to the family and the queen.
I don't think that Sarah's "staying in touch" and on good terms with the RF is as much as she makes it out to be, and it is not necessarily from her being a good hearted person.. it is more to do with her needing some backing, because she continually gets into financial messes..and she needs Andy helping out...so it makes sense for her to stay close to him and to try and keep some kind of friendly thing going with his family...
So no, I doubt if Charles remained friendly with Sarah. I think that he was irritated by her silliness early on and theres a bit form a diary by some socialite, (I can't remember who, maybe Woodrow Wyatt) about a party he was at with some royals in the later years, where Sarah and Diana were laughing at something silly and Charles got annoyed and said "Little things please little minds"..
I think that he saw both girls as foolish and trivial, and when he was browned off with them, just ignored them... He is probably courteous to Sarah if they meet, as his brother's ex wife, but I doubt if he actually meets her often.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I unbelievable. For one thing, impersonating police officers is illegal. Later on, when the story was confirmed and more details came out, we learned that they had closed the gates at BP as a joke. When Andrew came home, he thought that it was a sign of danger--a kidnap or terrorist threat--and drove away.
I don't remember that about the gates? How could they close them? I'm sure there are police/soldiers guarding the place. I Do remember soemthign about Andy thinking that there was a terrorist threat and following royal procedure getting hte hell away from it! but can't remember what it was?
was it that Di and sarah had indeed closed the gates?

but Yes I DO think that Sarah was a bad catalyst for Diana. She was lonely and bored and wanted someone to pal around with, someone who knew what normal life was like, and could be like her old flatmates.. but Sarah is a really daft girl.. Not bad natured, but so stupid... and thoughtless and selfish in a childish way. I think that her pranks amused Di, and Di joined in, because it seemed fun..
Problaby these silly pranks did NOT amuse Charles, and set off more rows in the Wales home.. and perhaps that started Di onto going further to distance herself form him and from the "correct Royal way."
After a while I think that Diana realised that copying Sarah was not a good idea, and she began to distance herself from her bit by bit.. but still, they were both increasingly unhappy as royal wives and they did talk about leaving..
And it was possible for Andre and Sarah to divorce, but I think the accepted idea then around 1990 or so was that the Wales marriage might be a terrible mess but it just had to keep going.. no matter what.. but Diana problaby felt, "why can Fergie get out of her marriage, and I can't" so it put her into a mindset of thinking of getting a divorce... and of defying the RF...
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  #225  
Old 07-31-2016, 11:29 PM
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I just saw a source online that said that the girls met him at the gates, but didn't mention that they were closed. Perhaps he saw the uniforms and thought that something was "off". I could be remembering wrongly about the gates behind closed. I'll have to look into it more.

The Independent said something about them closing the gates or planning to.
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  #226  
Old 08-01-2016, 12:04 AM
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In Sarah Bradford's biography of Diana the pair of them 'tricked' the police at the BP gates. Personally I think they probably wheedled and pleaded, explained it was a joke etc, and so the gates were shut just as Andrew came driving up.

All royals are trained to react in a certain way to unusual situations and probably Andrew's RPO also told him to quickly drive off, which he did. Fergie later joked that she wondered if they had gone too far when that occurred.

It was a very silly evening all round, really. Diana, Fergie and Elton John's then wife Renate also went on to create a bit of havoc at Annabell's nightclub, dressed in their WPC uniforms. Questions were asked in Parliament about the BP gates incident, as technically it is an offence to impersonate Met police officers, but of course nothing came of it.
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  #227  
Old 08-01-2016, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sassie View Post
They might be distant cousins...not sure of the lineage there. Diana said she met Sarah when she started dating Charles. Sarah said they met when they were younger. But, in all the accounts of both their lives, there's never been any indication that they were friends before Charles and Diana got together, so I tend to believe Diana's version. Of course, there's the difference between being friends and having simply met a few times-and I think Diana was referring to their friendship beginning in 1980/1981.
I never read anything about their being related, but of course quite possibly some distant relationship could be true, given they were of the same social circle.

And their paths could have crossed growing up ..... there are one or two photographs of Sarah with Andrew & Edward as children, so very likely times spent in and around the Sandringham Estate would have brought them into each other's orbit.

I believe the actual friendship did start when Diana started going out with Charles; Sarah's father was his polo manager was it?

Easy to see why a friendship would strike up ..... Charles' friends circle of the late teens / early twenties age group would have been fairly non existant. And it was Charles' circle Diana would be expected to now move in when in his company.

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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
I wonder if Sarah felt sorry at all when Diana died... Or if Diana ever had any remorse.
I remember reading something along the lines that Sarah spent a lot of time the night before the funeral sitting with Diana. So, yes, I expect a lot of sadness and regret.

In similiar circumstances I think Diana would have felt the same.
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  #228  
Old 08-01-2016, 08:36 AM
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I seem to remember reading that it was Diana who got the two of them together (Andrew/Fergie)...inviting both to some event and then continuing to do so.




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  #229  
Old 08-01-2016, 09:41 AM
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According to Sally Bedell Smith's biography of Diana Sarah met Andrew for the first time in June 1985, when the Queen invited her to the Windsor house party for Ascot week. This was at Diana's suggestion. She ensured Sarah and Andrew sat together at lunch.

Bedell Smith writes that Diana and Sarah had known each other since their teenage years. Their mothers had been to school together, and their daughters had met irregularly until Diana became engaged. She saw Sarah more often after that. (Diana in fact later recalled that Sarah 'reared her head up' a lot everywhere.) This included Diana's 21st birthday, when they lunched together.

After Andrew and Sarah seemed to get on well at the house party, Sarah became quite a regular guest at Kensington Palace, Highgrove and when Charles and Diana went skiing at Klosters she joined them. Diana and Charles seem to have definitely helped the romance along.
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  #230  
Old 08-01-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
According to Sally Bedell Smith's biography of Diana Sarah met Andrew for the first time in June 1985, when the Queen invited her to the Windsor house party for Ascot week. This was at Diana's suggestion. She ensured Sarah and Andrew sat together at lunch.

.
That may have been when they became reacquainted as adults but they did know each other as children. At the time of the engagement there were several pictures released of the two of them as children together on the polo field. It looks to me like they were about ten years old at the time - old enough to remember each other later. Remember, Sarah's father was Prince Philip's polo manager and she would have been around the field quite often.
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  #231  
Old 08-01-2016, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
In Sarah Bradford's biography of Diana the pair of them 'tricked' the police at the BP gates. Personally I think they probably wheedled and pleaded, explained it was a joke etc, and so the gates were shut just as Andrew came driving up.

it.
I suppose that is likely what happened. I know I have read something about ANdy finding gates closed and because he's trained to react as in "get out of the way if you see anything that does not look right..." he turned and drove off PDQ
And certianly Di, Sarah and the police were at fault if they closed the gates even for a few seconds.. that's what I mean, that Sarah was SO stupid that she thought these pranks were funny..
And Diana seems to have had a bit of time of finding this sort of thing funny too and going along with it. later I think she realised that it was stupid and that Fergie was leading her into some very silly behaviour that was going to make the public think badly of her and she cooled it with Fergie.

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Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
That may have been when they became reacquainted as adults but they did know each other as children. At the time of the engagement there were several pictures released of the two of them as children together on the polo field. It looks to me like they were about ten years old at the time - old enough to remember each other later. Remember, Sarah's father was Prince Philip's polo manager and she would have been around the field quite often.
I thought he was charles' Polo manager.

Anyway Di and Sarah were from the same social circle, but Sarah was poorer and less well connected -I think their mothers were debs together.. so they were problaby friendly as kids and then lost touch, because Diana married intot the RF young.. and Sarah was working..
And later on, they probably met at parties when Di was married and renewed a friendship and Diana saw her as a fun girl who might cheer her up now that she was unhappily stuck in the RF circle..and invited her to meet Andy...
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  #232  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I thought he was charles' Polo manager.

Anyway Di and Sarah were from the same social circle, but Sarah was poorer and less well connected -I think their mothers were debs together.. so they were problaby friendly as kids and then lost touch, because Diana married intot the RF young.. and Sarah was working..
And later on, they probably met at parties when Di was married and renewed a friendship and Diana saw her as a fun girl who might cheer her up now that she was unhappily stuck in the RF circle..and invited her to meet Andy...
You're right - I typed "Philip" when I should have typed "Charles" BUT Major Ferguson was in the same polo circles as Prince Philip before that. Sarah might not have had a title, but her family was fairly well-connected: Major Ferguson was closely related to Princess Alice Duchess of Gloucester and Sarah's mother was a niece of a viscount.
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  #233  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:47 AM
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Yes, Ron was a member of the guards polo club before having to retire from playing, and played/worked with Philip who is president. It was later, 1972 on, he managed for Charles.

Ron's mother Marian was 1st cousins with Princess Alice. Marian's dad Andrew was the son of the 6th duke of Buchleuch (Sarah's great-grandpa). He was 5th child. Alice's father was the 2nd son and heir, John (7th duke), Alice his 5th child. Marian herself was Lady Elmhirst from a 2nd marriage following the death of Ron's father.

Her mother Susan was the maternal granddaughter of the 8th viscount Powercourt, through her mother Doreen. The Viscount himself was maternal grandson of the 2nd earl of Leicester.
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  #234  
Old 08-02-2016, 02:02 AM
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Yes, I suppose Sarah's parents were members of those aristocratic and county families that found themselves clinging on to upper middleclass status after World War 2. There were heaps of well connected families without much money about when Sarah and her sister were growing up, and Sarah fitted into those circles well.

I think her self esteem probably suffered a bit, though, not just because of a 'bolter' mother, but because there wasn't much spare cash in her family. Unlike Diana there was no London flat paid for by parental money and she took a number of not particularly exciting jobs after she left school. Her extravagance after she wed, as well as liking for wealthy friends, was a huge problem in Sarah's marriage.
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  #235  
Old 08-02-2016, 03:40 AM
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True, she was well connected bu there wasn't much money, and she was not very bright, so she didn't have the chances that Di had, although she was "well born". Her cousin is Robert Fellowes, Di's brother in law... and I think her fathter may have gone out with Di's mother...
but he was "working for" charles, and I think was seen as "just a polo manager"..So I think when she married into the RF and was mixing full time iwht the rich and grand, it did go ot her head adn she spent far too much...and was desperate to do anything to make money to keep up .
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  #236  
Old 08-03-2016, 08:01 PM
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True, she was well connected bu there wasn't much money, and she was not very bright, so she didn't have the chances that Di had, although she was "well born". Her cousin is Robert Fellowes, Di's brother in law... and I think her fathter may have gone out with Di's mother...
but he was "working for" charles, and I think was seen as "just a polo manager"..So I think when she married into the RF and was mixing full time iwht the rich and grand, it did go ot her head adn she spent far too much...and was desperate to do anything to make money to keep up .
I actually have an old magazine from the time of the engagement in which an anonymous "palace official" is quoted as saying the marriage would only last five years not because of Sarah herself per se, but because she was "only the daughter of the stable boy." Ouch. No wonder she felt unwanted and unsupported by the "grey men."
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  #237  
Old 08-03-2016, 08:47 PM
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Yes, Ron was a member of the guards polo club before having to retire from playing, and played/worked with Philip who is president. It was later, 1972 on, he managed for Charles.

Ron's mother Marian was 1st cousins with Princess Alice. Marian's dad Andrew was the son of the 6th duke of Buchleuch (Sarah's great-grandpa). He was 5th child. Alice's father was the 2nd son and heir, John (7th duke), Alice his 5th child. Marian herself was Lady Elmhirst from a 2nd marriage following the death of Ron's father.

Her mother Susan was the maternal granddaughter of the 8th viscount Powercourt, through her mother Doreen. The Viscount himself was maternal grandson of the 2nd earl of Leicester.
Yes. Diana, Sarah and Camilla descended from King Charles II of England. But Diana's family is the most important.
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  #238  
Old 08-03-2016, 08:50 PM
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I treat quotes by "anonymous palace officials" the same way I treat the same by "anonymous friends", made up by the author of the article. However, later in the York marriage, one of the palace staff described Sarah as, " vulgar, vulgar, vulgar".
The problem with Sarah was, she didn't know when to stop with her goofy acting/antics. Sure, she was first described as a breath of fresh air in the Royal Family, but after a while her sense of fun became more the actions of immaturity and attempts to gain the spotlight and it got old with the public. I don't know, of course, if Diana came to the same realization or she was advised to back away from the antics, but in time she did put some distance between the two of them.
I remember the two couples on the annual skiing trip, Diana and Sarah started play tussling and Charles was extremely upset with the action. Then there was the disasterous "It's A Royal Knockout" tv show. Apparently, Diana wanted to appear with the Yorks, etc. and Charles put his foot down and stopped her. That was the wisest decision Charles made. I have British neighbors and we talked about that show one time years ago and they said Sarah made an absolute fool of herself and of course, Andrew, Anne and Edward weren't in the best spotlight either.
It's sad that Diana and Sarah were on bad terms at Diana's death, but I've written, Sarah goes too far and alienates herself.
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  #239  
Old 08-03-2016, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
I treat quotes by "anonymous palace officials" the same way I treat the same by "anonymous friends", made up by the author of the article. However, later in the York marriage, one of the palace staff described Sarah as, " vulgar, vulgar, vulgar".
The problem with Sarah was, she didn't know when to stop with her goofy acting/antics. Sure, she was first described as a breath of fresh air in the Royal Family, but after a while her sense of fun became more the actions of immaturity and attempts to gain the spotlight and it got old with the public. I don't know, of course, if Diana came to the same realization or she was advised to back away from the antics, but in time she did put some distance between the two of them.
I remember the two couples on the annual skiing trip, Diana and Sarah started play tussling and Charles was extremely upset with the action. Then there was the disasterous "It's A Royal Knockout" tv show. Apparently, Diana wanted to appear with the Yorks, etc. and Charles put his foot down and stopped her. That was the wisest decision Charles made. I have British neighbors and we talked about that show one time years ago and they said Sarah made an absolute fool of herself and of course, Andrew, Anne and Edward weren't in the best spotlight either.
It's sad that Diana and Sarah were on bad terms at Diana's death, but I've written, Sarah goes too far and alienates herself.
What show was this?
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  #240  
Old 08-03-2016, 09:34 PM
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Diana and Sarah's Relationship

Edward did a tv show where you had 4 teams of celebrities headed by a royal compete at various games while dressed up in medieval costumes. It was a pretty bad tv show.




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