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  #1101  
Old 12-29-2014, 12:36 PM
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According to many sources, the Prince of Wales only started his affair with Mrs. Parker Bowles in 1986. So, if Diana had a lover by 1983, she started to cheat first.

Of course, none should have cheated.
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  #1102  
Old 12-29-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
According to many sources, the Prince of Wales only started his affair with Mrs. Parker Bowles in 1986. So, if Diana had a lover by 1983, she start to cheat first.

Of course, none should have cheated.
That was my understanding as well. Of course I am applying double standards: "Gentlemen may cheat, ladies not". This is rubbish but my politically very incorrect gut feeling says that the Princess of Wales, a young mother also, should have shown the class her spouse apparently lacked. But she did just exactly the same. The Princess of Wales and future Queen of the United Kingdom made herself available for an army Capitain. And that same officier knew he was dating a married woman, married even to the person who once would become his supreme commander....

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  #1103  
Old 12-29-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
The article states 18 months before Harry was born that would mean March 1983. William would have been 9 months old.

This should put a damper on the Diana supporters, according to this she was committing adultery less than 2 years into the marriage.

This has got to be hurtful for both William and Harry as it cheapens their mother.

I am sure Prince Charles is not too happy with this either.

Interesting how Hewitt is trying to re-write history. There is too much already out there in statements by Diana and other friends that will dispute this story. It is hard to re-write history with the internet available.
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  #1104  
Old 12-29-2014, 02:47 PM
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This is my opinion as well. It's an unpopular opinion, but I agree with you. The Prince and Princess of Wales both gave up too early on their marriage and went to seek comfort elsewhere. Because of this, two boys were robbed of their mother and the nation lost a beloved Princess of Wales. Had adultery not entered their marriage, I believe that history might have taken a different turn.

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This is rubbish but my politically very incorrect gut feeling says that the Princess of Wales, a young mother also, should have shown the class her spouse apparently lacked.
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  #1105  
Old 12-29-2014, 08:36 PM
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The 'New Play About Harry' thread has been merged with this one as the discussion did little but revolve around the relationship between Diana and James Hewitt.

Several posts involving theories as to what other princesses would do in Diana's situation have been removed as they are off-topic and of little relevance to this thread. And no one can for certain say what any individual would do in such a scenario.
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  #1106  
Old 12-29-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
According to many sources, the Prince of Wales only started his affair with Mrs. Parker Bowles in 1986. So, if Diana had a lover by 1983, she started to cheat first.

Of course, none should have cheated.
If-as Diana and her friends always insisted-Charles was romantically involved with the very married Mrs. Parker Bowles up to the day his engagement was announced he IS the one who cheated first. And he duped an immature teenager into believing he could love her, which was even worse.

Perhaps after the marriage collapsed Charles and Diana believed that the centuries old maxim that allows upper crust couples to have discreet extra-marital affairs also applied to them. And the status quo might have been successfully maintained to this day if Diana had not decided to give a half-baked version of the truth in a tell-all book.
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  #1107  
Old 12-29-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
If-as Diana and her friends always insisted-Charles was romantically involved with the very married Mrs. Parker Bowles up to the day his engagement was announced he IS the one who cheated first. And he duped an immature teenager into believing he could love her, which was even worse.

Perhaps after the marriage collapsed Charles and Diana believed that the centuries old maxim that allows upper crust couples to have discreet extra-marital affairs also applied to them. And the status quo might have been successfully maintained to this day if Diana had not decided to give a half-baked version of the truth in a tell-all book.
We could argue forever, as the Prince of Wales and his friends have said he only started his affair in 1986.

But the supporters (if we can call them that) of the Prince of Wales are, at least, capable to admit his mistakes, while the majority of Diana's supporters prefer to portray her as an innocent victim of her husband and of the Royal Family, ignoring the five lovers she had.

But, in the end, who started to cheat first doesn't matter, as both parts were wrong. Diana is now dead and the Prince of Wales is happily married with his true love.
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  #1108  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
If-as Diana and her friends always insisted-Charles was romantically involved with the very married Mrs. Parker Bowles up to the day his engagement was announced he IS the one who cheated first. And he duped an immature teenager into believing he could love her, which was even worse.

Perhaps after the marriage collapsed Charles and Diana believed that the centuries old maxim that allows upper crust couples to have discreet extra-marital affairs also applied to them. And the status quo might have been successfully maintained to this day if Diana had not decided to give a half-baked version of the truth in a tell-all book.
Some of what you're saying here is putting words into other's mouths. We don't know that Charles set out to dupe Diana into anything - not having been a part of any of the conversations we don't know whether Charles acted like he could love her or not. In fact, given as he was rather public on the fact that he wasn't exactly sure what love meant prior to his marriage (but after his engagement) I'm not entirely sure how Diana was duped into believing he was in love.

That said, if Charles' relationship with Camilla ended before the engagement I'm a bit confused as to how he cheated then. It's not exactly like he and Diana had any courtship before their engagement. Can you really say the, what, 6 months before the engagement was announced counts as him cheating? He continued to have a friendship and sexual relationship with a woman who he had no intention of marrying, who had no expectations of marrying him, and who was married to another man, while he began to develop a relationship with a woman who he considered as a possible wife. When he then decided to marry her he ended his other relationship... sure it's not exactly the cleanest of starts, but we're literally talking about a 6 month period here.

Charles then didn't resume his relationship with Camilla until he felt his marriage was essentially over. This is after years of a lot of problems, including his pregnant wife throwing herself down a flight of stairs. Diana is being accused by her former lover of having started an affair just two years into the marriage. That is her apparently cheating first - although, she may well have felt that the marriage was pretty much over at that point, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That was my understanding as well. Of course I am applying double standards: "Gentlemen may cheat, ladies not". This is rubbish but my politically very incorrect gut feeling says that the Princess of Wales, a young mother also, should have shown the class her spouse apparently lacked. But she did just exactly the same. The Princess of Wales and future Queen of the United Kingdom made herself available for an army Capitain. And that same officier knew he was dating a married woman, married even to the person who once would become his supreme commander....

If Diana started having an affair in 1983, then she was showing a lack of class that her husband seemed to still have, given as he didn't start his affair until 1986.

I don't think Charles is any worse than Diana for cheating, nor Diana any worse than Charles for having done the same, but saying that one is displaying the lack of class that the other had should at least consider the apparent timeline here.
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  #1109  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:15 PM
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During the courtship and engagement it's my opinion that Diana WAS indeed a victim. A wordly 30-something man and his coterie of equally sophisticated friends, determined to protect his secrets, were no match for someone of Diana's youthful age and emotional temperament. I do not believe she would have ever agreed to marry Charles if she had realized the depth of his entrenchment with another woman...despite the fact that that woman was another man's wife. According to the story she did try at the last minute to call the entire thing off after becoming suspicious of what she was getting into...only to be told by her family that it was too late.

AFTER the wedding is a different story. She became every bit as cunning and manipulative as her detractors have made her out to be. It was indeed the height of hypocrisy to authorize a tell all charging your spouse with adultery when you yourself are in the midst of one of many adulterous affairs.


Ish, with all due respect your firm assertion that Charles had ended his affair with Mrs. Parker Bowles at the time of his engagement is no less presumptuous than my opinion that Diana was rather cruelly duped. Charles and his camp say that, Diana's say otherwise. We will never know for sure 100%.


Even if Diana was the Messalina she was reported to be the responsibility for ending this trainwreck before it left the station was Charles's. He could have kept up his affair with Andrew Parker Bowles' wife until he met another woman he DID love enough to want to fully commit to.


He was too weak to do so. And the result was tragic.
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  #1110  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
If-as Diana and her friends always insisted-Charles was romantically involved with the very married Mrs. Parker Bowles up to the day his engagement was announced he IS the one who cheated first. And he duped an immature teenager into believing he could love her, which was even worse.

Perhaps after the marriage collapsed Charles and Diana believed that the centuries old maxim that allows upper crust couples to have discreet extra-marital affairs also applied to them. And the status quo might have been successfully maintained to this day if Diana had not decided to give a half-baked version of the truth in a tell-all book.
No good can come from playing the "who cheated first" game about these two, partly because we can't know precisely when either of them first formed the intention to have sex with someone other than their spouse and acted upon that intention, and partly because we now know the marriage was doomed from the start and that both of them cheated at some time so it doesn't really matter.

However I have to say that attributing that dubious distinction to Charles for what he did before he was even engaged to Diana is stretching things a bit far.
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  #1111  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:28 PM
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The Unhappy Truth as I see it

What I am about to say is double standard, sexist & snotty in the extreme.
You may want to avert your gaze.

First please know that I do not doubt Prince Harry's paternity for one minute and I never did. When he was young, I thought he looked exactly like photos of a very young princess May of Teck (Queen Mary). Now I have to agree with those who think he looks like a red headed Charles. A much handsomer Prince Charles, but the resemblance is obvious, especially some expressions he has that are exactly his father's.

Having said that, maybe I won't be chased off the board for saying the following: Doubts of paternity are simply the legacy an adulteress leaves to her children. Unfair, I know, but true. It doesn't matter if hundreds of DNA tests are done in labs all over the world, all with the same result. There will always be those who delight in this nonsense, who would rather believe a ridiculous story than the truth.

And the really sad thing is that when someone writes a biography of him in a hundred years or so, this will still at least be a foot note. He will never, ever shake this because neither of his parents could behave themselves during their marriage.

Don't believe that it will never go away, what is the first thing always raked up in connection with the unfortunate Duke of Clarence and Avondale....just google him and see.

Cheers

Ana
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  #1112  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:29 PM
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I thought I got those photos out!!
I was going for a younger Harry.
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  #1113  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:33 PM
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And I still think if you put Harry in Queen Mary drag, the resemblance would be astonishing.
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  #1114  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:35 PM
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Diana and James Hewitt

If Diana was duped before the marriage, where was her family? Her sister even dated Charles. Why not tell her to get to know Charles better before getting engaged. Once the engagement is announced, you cant go back.


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  #1115  
Old 12-29-2014, 10:38 PM
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I have to admit I get irked by sweeping statements about both Charles and Diana and their love or duty marriage.

I saw them when they toured NZ, I met both and believe me, regardless of what was to happen in the marriage later, at that time she was a little sweet and giggly and he was absolutely besotted. They were what is called "cute" when they were together and, I believe they were very much in love but in the end their personalities were too diametrically opposed.

That allegation that Diana started an affair with another man before her second child was born is a shocker and, in the face of earlier evidence, much of it referenced in links posted on this board, just plain impossibe.

Hewitt only gets a re-run because he, like Harry, has red hair and the media are either too lazy or too malicious to acknowledge that Diana came from a family of redheads, not least of which was her brother Charles, the current Earl Spencer.
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:23 PM
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I think to really look at all of this objectively, it might be wise to remove the connotations of "sexual" and "affair" and "cheating" from the time frame. We do not know and will never know just when either of the Wales jumped into bed with someone other than their spouse and to be honest, I don't think its any of our business.

One thing is a given. Charles and Camilla had always had a close intimate friendship that continued after Camilla married Andrew. They were all close. Charles is even godfather to their oldest son Tom. It is my understanding that the Parker-Bowles had what was an open, yet discreet, marriage.

I don't think either Charles or Diana went cruising for a hook up. With Hewitt, I think Diana found someone she could relate to on an intimate level such as a best friend and confidant and perhaps over time, it evolved into a physical relationship. With Charles, after his marriage, to appease Diana, he cut contact with many of the friends in his circle and the Parker-Bowles were among them. I think Charles' friendship and trust in his female confidants was a sore point with Diana as she realized that is what she craved in the marriage and over time, they both realized that they really didn't "click" in that respect so when it presented itself with Hewitt, she was drawn like a moth to a flame to it. This intimacy also had presented itself between Diana and Mannakee (sp) and would be something she was seeking for the rest of her life. When the marriage reached the point of no return, Charles began to move back into his circle of friends and Camilla.

This illustrates that although Diana and Charles did have a very happy marriage at the outset and enjoyed each other and were "in love", in the long run, the close bonds of an intimate friendship, trust and a mutual love of sharing life together never were formed. They both did "click" together on their ideas of parenting and their love for their boys and that remained strong no matter what happened in their private lives.

This happens. People marry and discover that as they really get to know each other on a day to day basis, that they're just too different, too opposite in ways to fully form a close relationship that can withstand anything the world throws at them. Sometimes you have to travel the road to find all the potholes and hope to hell the car makes it to its destination.
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  #1117  
Old 12-29-2014, 11:52 PM
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Let's get back on topic.

This thread isn't about Camilla.
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  #1118  
Old 12-29-2014, 11:59 PM
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I can't believe anyone listens to what that Hewitt guys says, prints it or repeats it. He is a loser and a user and is selling out anyone to try to make a gain for himself. Yuk!
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  #1119  
Old 12-30-2014, 12:21 AM
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Ken Wharfe, Diana's Royal Protection Officer, had a lot to say about Hewitt, whom he confessed to rather liking, in his book 'Diana, Closely Guarded Secret'.

There was a rather telling episode which Wharfe relates, in which Diana told him that Hewitt could not afford a new car on his army pay, had told her so and that therefore she was going to give him the money to purchase one.

Wharfe states that he was appalled, not least because the Press, who in 1989-90 knew nothing of Hewitt, might get wind of it. Diana apparently told him he was being paranoid. So she withdrew £16,000 in cash, which was delivered to her by a bank official and she put it in a briefcase to hand over to James.
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  #1120  
Old 12-30-2014, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
I can't believe anyone listens to what that Hewitt guys says, prints it or repeats it. He is a loser and a user and is selling out anyone to try to make a gain for himself. Yuk!
To me, it doesn't matter one bit whether anything out of Hewitt's mouth is actual fact or made up fantasies, to make anything of this nature public knowledge is a window into a character that lacks any qualities that one would look for in a friend.
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