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  #621  
Old 12-14-2007, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sirhon11234 View Post
Yes, but illegetimate is a nicer term than bastard. Prince Albert of Monaco has two illegetimate children I don't think they would like to be called bastards. I don't think anyone who's parents weren't married would like to be a called bastard dear.
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Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
i agree. i think it's outdated and definitely denotes negativity. i find it equally as offensive as the words that were used in reference to people of other races that are no longer acceptable today.
Neither of you had better go to Australia then!
How are you, ya old bastard!
For example, after a hard day's yakka in Toronto putting up tents in 1998, one of the authors waltzed over to a group of hard nosed working class Canadians who were enjoying a few beers of their own. He then asked matter of factly whether or not he could "buy a beer off you bastards". One Canadian in particular responded with a glare that would have caused Ned Kelly to think twice and said very slowly in a thick Newfoundland accent, "Them there are fighting words here in Canada".

Different countries, different reactions it would seem, however I am English (& Scottish), the word is English and is in common usage in England, Scotland and Australia.
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  #622  
Old 12-14-2007, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Different countries, different reactions it would seem, however I am English (& Scottish), the word is English and is in common usage in England, Scotland and Australia.
You hit it on the head Skydragon! In most cases "bastard" is not used as slang in the US. We use the word "illegitimate" instead for a child out of wedlock.
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  #623  
Old 12-14-2007, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The meaning is virtually the same and is English rather than American, but I don't think anyone addresses a child 'bastard dear' or 'illegitimate dear', I would think they just use their forename.
Why not call them when talking about alleged illegimate offspring of the Prince of Wales "FitzPrinces" or "FitzWales"? With all due respect to His Grace the duke of Grafton and his family and all descendents of the "Fitzclarence"-ladies....
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  #624  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Neither of you had better go to Australia then!
How are you, ya old bastard!
For example, after a hard day's yakka in Toronto putting up tents in 1998, one of the authors waltzed over to a group of hard nosed working class Canadians who were enjoying a few beers of their own. He then asked matter of factly whether or not he could "buy a beer off you bastards". One Canadian in particular responded with a glare that would have caused Ned Kelly to think twice and said very slowly in a thick Newfoundland accent, "Them there are fighting words here in Canada".

Different countries, different reactions it would seem, however I am English (& Scottish), the word is English and is in common usage in England, Scotland and Australia.
baaaaaaaaad example for use of the word for several reasons:

a) over time "bastard" has come to mean many other things in canada, but it's been many many years since i've heard it used to refer to a child born out of wedlock.

b) the Newfoundlander wasn't offended at being called a bastard, he was shocked that anyone would think he'd give up his beer! no self respecting east coast canadian would part with his/her beer!!!

c) i have a number of friends and aquaintances in England and they've all told me that it's very rarely used anymore except by people from our parent's generation and that it's (god i hate this term) politically incorrect.
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  #625  
Old 12-14-2007, 12:07 PM
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In France, "bastard" (="bâtard") means illegitimate child but also a dog that's been born of 2 different races of dogs ... the comparison is not very flattering. Anyway, you just need to go on a translation website and type the word from french to english : "bâtard" = "Illegitimate Child".
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  #626  
Old 12-14-2007, 02:56 PM
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What is good for the goose, in rumors, is good for the gander. Long live Harry, the blood son of the Prince of Wales....maybe Jason Jenkins would want to meet his half brother...
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  #627  
Old 12-14-2007, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
What is good for the goose, in rumors, is good for the gander. Long live Harry, the blood son of the Prince of Wales....maybe Jason Jenkins would want to meet his half brother...
do you know for certain that jason jenkins is the son of the prince of wales? of course it's a possibility but you seem quite certain that he is. so now i ask you why it's o.k. for you to suggest that he is while it's not ok for us to suggest that harry may be hewitts son?
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  #628  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
baaaaaaaaad example for use of the word for several reasons:

a) over time "bastard" has come to mean many other things in canada, but it's been many many years since i've heard it used to refer to a child born out of wedlock.

b) the Newfoundlander wasn't offended at being called a bastard, he was shocked that anyone would think he'd give up his beer! no self respecting east coast canadian would part with his/her beer!!!

c) i have a number of friends and aquaintances in England and they've all told me that it's very rarely used anymore except by people from our parent's generation and that it's (god i hate this term) politically incorrect.
We clearly have more in common with Canadians than I realised.

The word "bastard" is indeed heard a lot here - "how are you, you old bastard" (very affectionately), "silly bastard" (affectionately), "stupid bastard" (not so affectionately), "useless bastard", etc. - but hardly ever to refer to someone whose parents weren't married at the time of their birth.

So many people have children out of wedlock that being illegitimate is not newsworthy anymore and people are not discriminated against on the basis they are illegitimate, or "ex-nuptial" which is the legalese expression. Since the late 1970s we have had legislation which provides that ex-nuptial children and children born within a marriage are treated identically for most legal purposes, and only the older folk are likely to use the word, but even they are more likely to use "illegitimate".

And an Australian would also be shocked to be asked to give up his beer.
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  #629  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
What is good for the goose, in rumors, is good for the gander. Long live Harry, the blood son of the Prince of Wales....maybe Jason Jenkins would want to meet his half brother...
Long live Harry indeed, whether he is Hewitts son or not!
If Harry is not Charles' blood son, there would be no half brother to meet and of course their is no proof of Jenkins claim.

The difference between fathering a child outside of your own marriage (bastard, illegitimate, or whatever you want to call it) is that the child has no rights to titles or position.

A woman producing a child that is possibly not her husbands, causes pain and misery to that child, who will be the subject of discussion, gossip and innuendo for it's entire life, especially as it is seen as undeserving of the titles, grace and favour it enjoys.

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Originally Posted by Duchess View Post
a) over time "bastard" has come to mean many other things in canada, but it's been many many years since i've heard it used to refer to a child born out of wedlock.

b) the Newfoundlander wasn't offended at being called a bastard, he was shocked that anyone would think he'd give up his beer! no self respecting east coast canadian would part with his/her beer!!!

c) i have a number of friends and aquaintances in England and they've all told me that it's very rarely used anymore except by people from our parent's generation and that it's (god i hate this term) politically incorrect.
Obviously I don't know where your friends live, their ages or even their social class, but it is common usage among the majority of the people I know. It is not one the 'PC' brigade have to my knowledge commented on.

As for your comment about the Newfoundlander -
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  #630  
Old 12-14-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Long live Harry indeed, whether he is Hewitts son or not!
If Harry is not Charles' blood son, there would be no half brother to meet and of course their is no proof of Jenkins claim.

The difference between fathering a child outside of your own marriage (bastard, illegitimate, or whatever you want to call it) is that the child has no rights to titles or position.

A woman producing a child that is possibly not her husbands, causes pain and misery to that child, who will be the subject of discussion, gossip and innuendo for it's entire life, especially as it is seen as undeserving of the titles, grace and favour it enjoys.

Obviously I don't know where your friends live, their ages or even their social class, but it is common usage among the majority of the people I know. It is not one the 'PC' brigade have to my knowledge commented on.

As for your comment about the Newfoundlander -
well i have friends as far north as newcastle and as far south as cornwall so it's pretty good coverage geographically speaking. as for age, most are close to my own, some are younger. the general consensus is that the term is very rarely used so perhaps it's just used by certain people...perhaps a generational thing.
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  #631  
Old 12-14-2007, 05:00 PM
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...perhaps a generational thing.
As you say a generational thing!
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  #632  
Old 12-20-2007, 02:03 PM
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Someone mentioned the Goldsmith thing earlier in this thread - was the rumour that Jimmy Goldsmith was actually Diana's father and not Earl Spencer??
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  #633  
Old 12-22-2007, 06:50 PM
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I think that was indeed the rumour.
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  #634  
Old 12-23-2007, 06:39 AM
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I think that was indeed the rumour.
Maybe that was what actually fed the Hewitt-rumours in the first place. Because if Diana wasn't the daughter of Johnnie Spencer but Jimmy Goldsmith - then where did Harry get his red hair from?
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  #635  
Old 12-23-2007, 12:32 PM
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I am sure it was a big part of it. That's how rumors work unfortunately, they just feed other rumors.
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  #636  
Old 01-11-2008, 12:25 AM
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Oh good heavens! Lets just settle it now. Prince Harry was my grandfathers', brothers', uncles', sons', son for goodness sake! Now that you all know the truth, lets change the subject.
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  #637  
Old 01-11-2008, 06:52 AM
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Oh good heavens! Lets just settle it now. Prince Harry was my grandfathers', brothers', uncles', sons', son for goodness sake! Now that you all know the truth, lets change the subject.
So, lets get this right, you are related to James Hewitt!!!!
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  #638  
Old 01-12-2008, 09:53 AM
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It's an interesting topic,but one that will never be ansewered.The Palace would never dignify such a claim with a DNA test.
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  #639  
Old 01-12-2008, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by royalone3 View Post
It's an interesting topic,but one that will never be ansewered.The Palace would never dignify such a claim with a DNA test.
I've read a couple of things, purportedly from James Hewitt, who does claim Harry as his son. However, I see Queen Mary's facial characteristics all over Harry and her appearance genes seem to dominate the royal family.

At any rate one need not necessarily be a biological child in order to succeed: only a LEGAL child. That is, a child born in lawful wedlock is entitled to succeed as long as the father does not openly refute the child.
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  #640  
Old 01-12-2008, 11:42 PM
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The truth will come out one way or the other as Harry ages. I don't see any of James Hewitt in him, but plenty of the Windor features. I recently saw pictures of Prince Andrew that remind me of Prince Phillip when he was younger, and rumors have been around for quite a long time that he is not Phillip's biological child.
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