Diana and Dodi (and Tony Blair)

[anbrida]

Diana was on her way to turning her life around after her divorce but she never got that shot. I just wish she didn't accept the Al-Fayed's invitation to vacation with them that summer. It seems her life went out of her own control after that.

To the contrary, I think every thing were under her own control except for the last day. Going to Paris was Dodi's idea. She wanted go home. She even told Richard Key on Aug 30, she wanted to get away from the paparrazi and thought "British people must be sick of seeing me in the newspaper".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1573267/Diana-planned-world-hospice-network.html

You are right. She was on a major change in her life when she died. Besides the ambassador role, filmmaking plan, she also wanted to open a world-wide hospice network. But do charity also need money, and Al-Fayed was one of the few people who was very generous to her and willing to help make her dream come true.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

It was certainly well meant, but it never made any sense to me because there wasn't much behind it. What does it mean? Is the Queen "the peoples' Queen"? Who out of William and Harry is "the peoples' prince" or are they both? Is it the same as Pope francis being the people's pope?

The irritating thing for me was that Diana was allowing her life to be lived fully in the public eye, whereas I thought she was fed up with it. That last summer we saw her everywhere from Bosnian mine-fields to glamorous cruises in the Med to intimate dinners in Paris - all of it knowingly in the full glare of the media and it made no sense to me to live a double or triple life like that.

The horrors of mine-fields had to be highlighted and I'm glad she did it and I really do think that had she lived, her role in highlighting these terrible things was more valuable than we will ever know. But to turn around days later and live the jet-set life with a new boyfriend in tow and making odd statements like wait to see what I do next, sort of diminished the importance of her serious work.

As for Dodi, gawd only knows what she saw in him - I never understood it, but her taste in men was never great, bless her. But nonetheless, he may well have been right for her in the long run and we will never know - I wouldn't have objected to him as a new husband on any grounds other than his father being the way he is and interfering all the time.

I always hoped that had Diana lived, she would have ended up with a rich anthropologist or artist or someone a bit grounded who couldn't care less about the media.

Jacknch-you've perfectly articulated how I feel about the "people's princess" moniker and why I dislike it. Was the late, phenomenally popular Astrid Queen of the Belgians the People's Queen? She connected with average people too. Was JFK the People's President? Francis the People's Pope?

I wasn't meaning to denigrate Diana by saying that I found the title Blair gave her trite and meaningless. As unattractive as I sometimes found her methods and behavior, I was fascinated by Diana. Her death left me depressed for weeks.

 

[Dman]

Despite the troubles of her past, Diana was a beautiful light in this world and when it burned out, it was a great loss for everyone. She's been gone for a long time now but I still feel her loss as if it all happened yesterday.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Ah yes, but she was the mother of the future king and his brother. That is the difference. Had she been anyone else who married into the family, the situation would have been different.

On itself Tony Blair bore no any responsibility for Diana Spencer. Exactly like today David Cameron is not at all responsible for Sarah Ferguson, Mark Phillips, Antony Armstrong-Jones or other former members of the royal family.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I was just reading Tina Brown's book earlier this evening. The place she wanted to visit was Northern Ireland because she thought that she "could sort people's heads out."

July, 1997 Diana had a lunch with Tina Brown, in which she talked about her wish to visit China, because "I'm very good at sorting people's heads out." she said.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

And all this is just a snippet of her apparently complicated life I expect. I confess I am already exhausted!

I completely agree.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well, the Queen did not at all strip anything from Diana. The late Diana was a HRH and a Princess by virtue of her marriage. With the end of the said marriage, Diana automatically lost these styles.

If it was automatic why did Sarah keep it from her divorce until the Queen issued the LPs?

and

Why did The Queen even have to issue the LPs that stripped both women of the HRH?

It actually wasn't automatic as seen with Sarah still using it from her divorce until Diana's divorce.

 

[PetticoatLane]

I was just reading Tina Brown's book earlier this evening. The place she wanted to visit was Northern Ireland because she thought that she "could sort people's heads out."

Really?! As someone who was growing up in NI around that time, she clearly thought an awful lot of herself if she thought she could make any appreciable difference to the Troubles.

Clearly she was in need of a bit of a reality check at the time, in more ways than one.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

If it was automatic why did Sarah keep it from her divorce until the Queen issued the LPs?

and

Why did The Queen even have to issue the LPs that stripped both women of the HRH?

It actually wasn't automatic as seen with Sarah still using it from her divorce until Diana's divorce.

This was an uncovered and until then pretty unthinkable situation. "Divorced wives of British Princes? Good heavens!". It was assumed that marriages always ended by death and then the widow kept the style and titles of the deceased husband. To end all possible confusion about this, Queen Elizabeth decreed that any former wife (other than a widow until a remarriage) of a British Prince is not entitled to the style of a Royal Highness. (LP of August 21st 1996).

So Sarah and Diana were not "scrapped" from anything. They were no Princesses or Duchesses in their own right. With the end of their marriages also the use of their former husband's style and titles ended. The HRH is no title or a dignity, it is a style, a honorific, a form of address. Sarah and Diana were HRH by virtue of their marriages. They were no HRH anymore with the end of said marriages. To take away any possible confusion about that, Queen Elizabeth made it clear for once and for all.

 

[anbrida]

I was just reading Tina Brown's book earlier this evening. The place she wanted to visit was Northern Ireland because she thought that she "could sort people's heads out."

I forgot to mentioned that. Tina Brown is a nasty lier. The country she wanted visit was China. It was printed in a 1997 article on The New Yorker magazine,written by Tina Brown herself. I can't find the link to that article now. But I have a copy. And you can read the following bbc article printed in 1997, which will tell you the country is China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/diana/ambassador.html

Asked about Mr Blair's accession to No 10, she said: "I think at last I will have someone who will know how to use me. He's told me he wants me to go on some missions."
Diana did not go into detail, but she said she would like to go to China and claimed: "I'm good at sorting people's heads out."

I can provide more articles about her trip to China, but they are in Chinese.

In her book, Tina Brown did mention Diana'd been talking with David Tang on phone from the boat to arrange her visit to Hongkong. But she gave a nasty reason why Diana would like to visit China. Here is an extract from Tina Brown's book

Tang was not a boyfriend, but Diana's new interest in China was also stoked by Gulu Lalvani. The fifty-eight-year old Hong Kong-based eletronics entrepeur.

That is such a nasty lie. Gulu Lalvani is an Indian. He has nothing to do with China. Tina Brown knew very clear why Diana would like to visit China, but she made it sound like it was all because of man

 

[anbrida]

Here is the link to 1997 Tina Brown's Newyorker article. The country printed there is China not North Ireland.

DIANA 1961-1997: THE PRINCES: ALL MY HOPES ARE ON WILLIAM NOW, I THINK HE HAS IT; Diana tells of pride for her son just weeks before death crash. - Free Online Library

 

[anbrida]

More surprising information here. According to the paparazi, Jason Fraser, who took the iconic pictures of the princess and Dodi Fayed kissing, it was Diana herself who asked the picture to be taken. And through the whole summer, Diana had been informing Fraser, when and where she was going to appear with Dodi and ask him to stand-by. Fraser said he was very relunctant to publish those picture himself, because he thought "they went worldwide and couldn’t shake off this sinking feeling that the Princess Diana bubble was about to burst", and he didn't want to "change people’s image of her". But he published it because "it was her wish".

Photographer Jason Fraser opens up on his special relationship with Princess Diana | Mail Online

Earlier that summer, Diana had made a puzzling public announcement. ‘You’ll be shocked at what I do next’, she said teasingly.
Says Fraser, ‘Like everyone else, I was left scratching my head. I had no idea what she was talking about – or that it would later involve me.’

The over-riding feeling I had at that time was of great concern and fear that nothing would ever be the same again. I felt deeply uneasy at this responsibility.
‘The moment I had seen the pictures I* foresaw* the repercussions once they went worldwide and couldn’t shake off this sinking feeling that the Princess Diana bubble was about to burst.‘
Why, in that case, did Jason release the photographs at all?
Jason, now 46, says he was invited by Diana herself to photograph her holidaying with her lover Dodi in the last days before her death in Paris on August 31, 1997.
When he showed me the prints, we spread them out over the kitchen floor and we sat in silence. I didn’t know what to do. I knew that Diana had wanted them to be taken. But I knew nothing would ever the same again. I didn’t want to change people’s image of her.’
The final photographs of Diana, taken just a few days before her death, were shots of the princess lying next to Dodi on the top deck of the yacht while moored off Portofino. In the film, the scene is recreated in the movie by Naomi Watts, who plays Diana. She is also shown in the movie calling Fraser to tell him her whereabouts for these shots.
Recalls Jason: ‘She let me know she was going to be on a tender going out to the yacht. I think overall, she was happy with all the pictures taken that summer.’

‘So I told Diana that I was going back to London as there was little else for me to do. She agreed and said she’d be back there too in a day or so. But Dodi convinced her to stop over in Paris and to return to London the next day instead.’ It was a decision that would change the course of history.

Isn't it the whole senario very very odd. First, Diana went to Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, to talk about Dodi, before she even met Dodi herself. Then she dump her boy friend, who in her close friends' eyes was her soul mate. Her boy friend was so mad about that he said to her "you are dead". Next, she asked the paparazzi to take a picture which would kind of kill her own reputation. There must be something very big going on in her mind, isn't it?

 

[Tarlita]

One of the many doco's I saw after her death suggested that Dodi's father manipulated his son to go after Diana to make him look good. This is when he was with Kelly. In other words Dodi was persuing Diana under orders from his father and Diana was using Dodi to make Hasnat Khan jealous. I never saw any great romance between the two, except for the deliberate touching done for the cameras. This by a couple who hardly knew each other.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Agreed. It was Tina Brown's opinion that Diana was delusional at this time, perhaps not clinically but certainly over-estimating her own abilities to an unhealthy degree. I saw a hint of this in her Panorama interview, actually. There was something very unsettling in her manner during the second half of the interview.

Really?! As someone who was growing up in NI around that time, she clearly thought an awful lot of herself if she thought she could make any appreciable difference to the Troubles.

Clearly she was in need of a bit of a reality check at the time, in more ways than one.

 

[Queen Camilla]

I agree she had too high an opinion of herself and her abilities.

She clearly did not listen to the advise of others and only did want she wanted to do.

She wanted to visit China because she was good as sorting people's heads out. The first person who she needed to sort out was herself.

She was a divorced woman dating a muslim man. This would not have given her any credibility in the muslim world.

She did a PSA on landmines for the Red Cross and suddenly she thought she was a film maker.

She was still pursuing a film about HIV in India after the Indian high commissioner in London told her not to do the film.
This would have destroyed any chance of her being a good will ambassador.

 

[Dman]

I agree she had too high an opinion of herself and her abilities.

She clearly did not listen to the advise of others and only did want she wanted to do.

She wanted to visit China because she was good as sorting people's heads out. The first person who she needed to sort out was herself.

She was a divorced woman dating a muslim man. This would not have given her any credibility in the muslim world.

She did a PSA on landmines for the Red Cross and suddenly she thought she was a film maker.

She was still pursuing a film about HIV in India after the Indian high commissioner in London told her not to do the film.
This would have destroyed any chance of her being a good will ambassador.

Despite Diana's own past problems, she was pretty good at helping other people. She didn't think too highly of herself. She knew she had the ability to help other people and she had the status and the world stage platform to do so.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I agree she had too high an opinion of herself and her abilities.

She clearly did not listen to the advise of others and only did want she wanted to do.

She wanted to visit China because she was good as sorting people's heads out. The first person who she needed to sort out was herself.

She was a divorced woman dating a muslim man. This would not have given her any credibility in the muslim world.

She did a PSA on landmines for the Red Cross and suddenly she thought she was a film maker.

She was still pursuing a film about HIV in India after the Indian high commissioner in London told her not to do the film.
This would have destroyed any chance of her being a good will ambassador.

Islam does not prohibit remarriage for divorced women, although her potential role as an ambassador would have been greatly compromised if she had married either Dodi Fayed or Hasnat Khan. The Muslim world would have welcomed her if she had converted, but there would have been a lot of controversy in non-Muslim countries. If she hadn't converted but had a child, it would have created controversy pretty much everywhere.

Regardless, it seems as though Blair was willing to consider using her as an ambassador. I assume he was thinking of using her on a charm offensive but she wouldn't have been used to "sort people's heads out." Diana was living in a dream world if truly thought her personal charmed would have resolved the serious and complicated issues involved in the UK's relations with China.

If Blair had used her, it would have been in the same role she had while she was married to Charles. Charming world leaders, but not trying to negotiate or "sort out" anything.

I don't think even that would have worked out. I think Blair underestimated her stubborn streak. Diana would have become very difficult to control freed from the constraints of the palace. For example, after the Panorama interview, she went to Argentina in an attempt to demonstrate her abilities. The problem was the British government did not want her to go. (The relationship between the UK and Argentina was still strained after the Falkland's War). No prime minister would want an ambassador who can't follow a script.

 

[Dman]

Had Diana became an official or unofficial ambassador, she would've did what was asked of her.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Of course, as any other official or inofficial ambassador, see Sharon Stone, see Audrey Hepburn, see any other celebrity who is asked for such a role.

 

[Alexey 1904]

The Duke of Windsor was 77 or 78 when he died. He lived in Paris. Diana was just visiting. She was to return the day after the accident to see her sons. Mohamed al Fayed had just bought the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's Paris house. Diana was thinking of moving to the US and buying Julie Andrew's house for herself and her sons, so they would be out of the limelight in London and fit right in with the other Hollywood stars.

 

[sndral]

I don't think the conversation about Dodi occurred on 7/6 for two reasons:
1) William was with her and I would hope Blair would not have had the type of conversation he describes in William's presence
2) Diana had not yet met Dodi, there was no relationship to discuss.
I would assume that there was a later meeting w/ Blair between 7/20-30, when she was mostly back in England and had by then begun the affair with Dodi and that she disclosed the relationship to assess it's impact on the role she was trying to create for herself.
Alternatively at the 7/6 meeting they may have discussed her upcoming vacation with the Fayads which as she was taking the boys Blair may not have liked and she may have known she was going to meet Dodi, and she may have been speaking in general 'what if' terms.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Duke of Windsor was 77 or 78 when he died. He lived in Paris. Diana was just visiting. She was to return the day after the accident to see her sons. Mohamed al Fayed had just bought the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's Paris house. [....]

Mr Al Fayed did not buy the house. It always was (and still is) property of the Ville de Paris (the city of Paris). The house in the Bois de Boulogne was rented to the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. After the death of the Duchess, Mr Al Fayed became the new tenant. The Ville de Paris agreed on a low rent but in return Mr Al Fayed had to renovate the property on his account.



The villa: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images...e/06talk-excerpt4/06talk-excerpt4-blog480.jpg

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...] Diana was thinking of moving to the US and buying Julie Andrew's house for herself and her sons, so they would be out of the limelight in London and fit right in with the other Hollywood stars.

It is out of the question that two of the direct Heirs are living outside Her Majesty's many Realms. Their path would go to Eton, an university and then the military.

There is also a contradiction between trying to get out of the limelight and then to fit right in with Hollywood stars, if you ask me....

 

[wyevale]

so they would be out of the limelight in London and fit right in with the other Hollywood stars.

As Duc et Pair says.. it is inconceivable that the princes would have been permitted to live outside the realms, away from their father and family, and subject to the vagaries of their mothers somewhat erratic lovelife.
Also they are NOT 'Hollywood stars', and it would be hard to imagine a more malign group of individuals to bring them up with [given the path their lives are set to follow.]

 

[Lee-Z]

OT, but i've been watching a bit much "Downton Abbey" lately, and i can just imagine the face of Lady Granthem, the dowager Countess, had she heard the words "British princes" and "other hollywood stars" in the same sentence

 

[Mermaid1962]

 

[anbrida]

Agreed. It was Tina Brown's opinion that Diana was delusional at this time, perhaps not clinically but certainly over-estimating her own abilities to an unhealthy degree. I saw a hint of this in her Panorama interview, actually. There was something very unsettling in her manner during the second half of the interview.

Must "sort out people's head" mean solve the problem between two countries ultimately? The sentence itself was quite ambiguous. It can mean change people's hostile attitude, right?

I do believe Tony Blair wanted to use her to send friendly message to the host country, to warm up the air. Such that a formal visit by formal officials become possible. Most of the time the relationship between two countries are so tense that, any dialogue are impossible. In this case, Diana can put a good contribution to break the ice.

Which manner of her make you feel she was unsettling? Can you get into details. Without detailed explanation, such blind talk is quite meaningless. It will only make people feel you have prejudice against her.

Here is the definition of prejudice
"preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience."

 

[anbrida]

I don't think the conversation about Dodi occurred on 7/6 for two reasons:
1) William was with her and I would hope Blair would not have had the type of conversation he describes in William's presence
2) Diana had not yet met Dodi, there was no relationship to discuss.
I would assume that there was a later meeting w/ Blair between 7/20-30, when she was mostly back in England and had by then begun the affair with Dodi and that she disclosed the relationship to assess it's impact on the role she was trying to create for herself.
Alternatively at the 7/6 meeting they may have discussed her upcoming vacation with the Fayads which as she was taking the boys Blair may not have liked and she may have known she was going to meet Dodi, and she may have been speaking in general 'what if' terms.

Tony Blair didn't give the date. The date was given by Alasstair Compbell's diary "The Blair Year". And the article written by Richard Kay also gives the date

TONY BLAIR'S MEMOIRS: Did he really warn Diana about Dodi? | Mail Online

William was at present, but when Blair and Diana had the talk, they were alone, and all the other people were playing football.

Tony Blair had emphasize in his book that was the LAST meeting he had with Diana, there was no other follow-up meeting.

Diana wasn't seeing Dodi at that time. But she was introduced to him by her step-mother in the spring. I think her step-mother wanted to set them up. So Diana come to Tony Blair for advice.

But Tony Blair's answer was really disappointing. He said Dodi was a problem, but it was not due to his nationality, religion or background. And he said he never met him, only know he was a good son and a nice guy, but he still feel Dodi was a problem. In one words, he didn't know why, but Dodi was a problem. This is a very disappointing answer, because it was equivalent to tell Diana, "I have a prejudice against this guy". No wonder Diana wouldn't take his advice, to the contrary, more determined to have a try with Dodi. Diana hated prejudice.

Prejudice -- preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

BTW, "a good son" here was referring to Dodi's devotion to his mother, he would telephone her almost every day up to her death. Dodi once told a friend: "If it meant giving up everything I have—cars, wealth, and women—I would do it to bring my mother back."

Samira Khashoggi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jacknch]

Tony Blair didn't give the date. The date was given by Alasstair Compbell's diary "The Blair Year". And the article written by Richard Kay also gives the date

TONY BLAIR'S MEMOIRS: Did he really warn Diana about Dodi? | Mail Online

William was at present, but when Blair and Diana had the talk, they were alone, and all the other people were playing football.

Tony Blair had emphasize in his book that was the LAST meeting he had with Diana, there was no other follow-up meeting.

Diana wasn't seeing Dodi at that time. But she was introduced to him by her step-mother in the spring. I think her step-mother wanted to set them up. So Diana come to Tony Blair for advice.

But Tony Blair's answer was really disappointing. He said Dodi was a problem, but it was not due to his nationality, religion or background. And he said he never met him, only know he was a good son and a nice guy, but he still feel Dodi was a problem. In one words, he didn't know why, but Dodi was a problem. This is a very disappointing answer, because it was equivalent to tell Diana, "I have a prejudice against this guy". No wonder Diana wouldn't take his advice, to the contrary, more determined to have a try with Dodi. Diana hated prejudice.

I am afraid Mr Blair's answers are and always have been disappointing and I would't believe a single word he says, written or otherwise. It's all a load of old codswallop! Dodi a problem? Why then? You can't tell someone to stay away fro someone else without a proper reason and worse still write about it years later and still not give a proper reason.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Mr Blair bore no any responsibility for Diana whatsoever, like Mr Cameron bears no responsibility for Sarah or for Mark Phillips, to name some ex-spouses to royals. That is why it is hard to imagine that Mr Blair would be "warning" Diana for people she mingled with. It was none of his business at all and I can not imagine a British Prime Minister, ruled by his demandig agenda, making the time for this sort of futilities as private flings of former royal spouses.