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  #81  
Old 09-02-2014, 02:45 PM
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The Khans wanted Hasnat to marry someone of his own tribe.

Like you, I think that it was Dodi's father who was "pulling the strings". He controlled Dodi's finances. It was he who told Dodi to come on the holiday when Diana was with them. It was he who ultimately gave the "okay" to the security arrangements the night of the crash. All his dreams, as well as his son's life, came to an end that tragic night.


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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It would have been quite different I think with Dodi's family. Dodi's father, Mr. Al Fayed had been seeking admittance to the higher echelons of British society for years (even to the point of buying a Scottish castle) and I have suspicions that it was his machinations that pushed Diana and Dodi together. That would have been quite a coup for him.
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  #82  
Old 09-02-2014, 05:10 PM
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I've been reading this thread and I think we are reaching here. I really don't think Diana was trying to prove any great points or defend any values by going out with Dodi. She evidently was attracted to men of color: Oliver Hoare had an Egyptian background, Hasant Khan and then Dodi. I think she had some attraction to him and calling the press for the staged kiss photograph accomplished two goals : 1. put a nose up at her ex-husband and 2. to make Hasant Khan, whom she really did love, jealous. Dodi did not have a good reputation ultimately entire relationship was a disaster.

I do agree that society had a problem with her going out with a man of color. I also think the non Christian religion bothered people.

I don't know why Tony Blair is stating anything about any of this in his book other than to increase sales. In the many books and articles that I have been reading for the past ten years about Diana, I never got the impression that he was a great confidant.
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  #83  
Old 09-02-2014, 05:20 PM
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Essentially Blair is an opportunist, and [like St Diana] a consummate self-publicist...as well as a PROVEN liar. He knew that the mere mention of her name would sell books, and give him kudos...
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  #84  
Old 09-02-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Essentially Blair is an opportunist, and [like St Diana] a consummate self-publicist...as well as a PROVEN liar. He knew that the mere mention of her name would sell books, and give him kudos...

Agree 100 percent



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  #85  
Old 09-03-2014, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
I know some are still interested, but after 17 years of rehashing the Diana/Dodi relationship, I'm worn out. We will never know. Your interpretation seems far too simplistic, IMO. I even disagree that she would have ever married Dodi...she had too much to lose.
She had too much to lose? What can she lose? reputation? I think she more concerned with her character than her reputation.

Quote:
"Be more concerned whit your character than your reputation because your character is what really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are!"
That was a memorandum she propped on her desk. And loss of "reputation" was not neccesary a bad thing to her. Less "reputation" less paparazzi.

If marry Dodi, she had much more to gain. Moving abroad. That was her dream for years. She had been talking about this to many people for many years. She couldn't before, because her sons' security problem. With Dodi, it became a possible. And this "abroad" is not necessary very far away. Paris is very close to London. Actually I guess Diana'd already discussed this possibility to Charles. In no way she would have brought the princes to vacation with the Al-Fayed family without consulting Charles. And around the time she accepted the Fayed's invitation, she suddenly started to call him "my husband" again. I think she got a very contenting answer from him. Since the princes spend most time in the boarding school. I don't think Charles would be so cruel to object the princes spent their weekends with their mother in France. He knew how impossible her life was in Britain.

If marry Dodi, she could do the hospices things which would give her most happiness. And Dodi can help her make films to support her causes. She might not be in love with Dodi, but she could get her happiness somewhere else. She said this herself, and did this herself. With words and actions, do we still need more evidence.

Quote:
"Nothing gives me greater happiness than trying to help the weakest in this society. It's a goal and, from now on, an essential part of my life. It's a sort of destiny." -Aug 21st, 1997
Quote:
"She told me that she was discussing with Mr Al Fayed the possibility of setting up some sort of worldwide hospice network which she indicated he would be prepared to financially underwrite. It was to be a very major announcement. It was something she wanted to do, rather than things that other people wanted her to do. It was such an important development that she was going to stop taking on royal engagements after the end of 1997"-- Richard Kay's testimony to the jury about their phone call on Aug 30, 1997.
(Obviously the hospices thing -- taking care of the dying was her favorite of favorites, because "it was something she wanted to do, rather than things (charities) that other people wanted her to do. ")

My interpretation was too simplistic? Could you tell me which part of my interpreation is too simplistic or illogic or doesn't make sense. I really like to have a substantial discussion. I can not accept your comment if you don't provide any reason. You said I am rehashing Diana/Dodi relationship. However no one has ever provided a reasonable interpretation of their relationship, based on facts or logic. How can I rehash anything, if there is nothing there to be rehashed at all. No I am not rehashing anything. I am the FIRST one trying to give an interpretation.

Unless you really believe that truely simplistic and stupid interpretation like "making Hasnat Khan jealousy".

Yeah, Diana and Tony Blair together spent a long time discussing how to make Hasnat Khan jealousy, for this they even had an arguement. The argument between them was recorded in Alastair Campbell's diary, not given by Tony Blair himself. Actually a lot of Tony blair's words I quoted are from Alastair Cambell's diary, not from Tony Blair's book. Their diary and book were published in different years.

Yeah, Diana just wanted to use Dodi, but she still gave him her father's cufflinks. Wonder how could she get them back.

Yeah, Diana not only wanted to use Al-Fayed's son, exploit his son's feeling to make Hasnat Khan jealousy, but also wanted to use Al Fayed's money to do her own charity (How shameless she was !!!). And Al Fayed, as smart and successful a business man as he is, would happily agree to be used in this way. Imagine, after the summer, Diana turned around and run away from his son and go back to Hasnat Khan, do you think Al Fayed would still fund her charity cause?

Yeah, in order to make Hasnat Khan she would not only scarify her own reputation, but also make her sons feel embarrassed and ashamed of her. If this was the true motivation of the "kiss" photo, how would her sons think -- "my mother openly flirted with another man in front of the whole world for the purpose to make another man feel jealousy"; how could she explained to her sons the kiss photo. She might not care about how other people think of her, but she definitely cared about how her sons think of her.

Yeah, even with the knowledge that Diana was spending the whole summer flirting with one man in order to make another man jealousy, Tony Blair would still feel she should be called "people's princess". Moreover after many years, when he talked about this again, he still said

Quote:
"although the phase "people's princess" now seems like something from another age. And corny. And over the top. And all the rest of it. But at the time it felt natural and I thought, particularly, that she would have approved. It was how she saw herself, and it was how she should be remembered."
Yeah, Tony Blair thought it was natural that she should be remembered as the people's princess, because her last period of life were spent on exploiting another man to make her man jealousy. And she still saw herself as people's princess in this way, Tony Blair believed.

If she really wanted to use another man to make Hasnat Khan jealousy, she can do it as privately as possible, just enough to let Hasnat Khan see "it", instead of doing it in front of the whole world, let everybody see it, provide a laughing stock of herself to her enemy. This is so unnecessary. Not to mention that the chance to succeed is close to zero. If she was really really so desperate, a baby would have the job done. She always wanted to have a daughter right?

Even if this is her true motivation, even if she had any chance to succeed. And Hasnat Khan would finally agree to marry her. What would be the consequence? Several months ago, you are flirting with a man in front of the world, so happy, and so in love, and then several months later you get into a marriage with another man. How people would think of her? Would she be so stupid to do that.

I can't believe this interpretation "making Hasnat Khan jealousy" can be accepted by so many people for so many years.

Of course there is an ever simpler interpretation. That is "everybody are telling lies". Diana told lies. Tony Blair told lies. Alastair Campbell told lies. If some new information come out not consistent with the preferred "facts", then just dismiss all of them as "lies". Then the prefer "facts" can be preserved. Job done. Proofs? Evidences? No we dont need them. The preferred "facts" are the most important things.

Don't blame me for rehashing. There is nothing here for me to rehash. Nothing substantial has been ever said about Dodi/Diana's relationship. All of those interpretations out there are just "jokes".
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  #86  
Old 09-03-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Essentially Blair is an opportunist, and [like St Diana] a consummate self-publicist...as well as a PROVEN liar. He knew that the mere mention of her name would sell books, and give him kudos...
Even though his real intention to bring up the story is to sell books, it doesn't mean the story itself is a lie, right? What is his real intention to talk about this story is not the most important thing. The most important thing is whether it is a true story, whether the conversation between him and Diana concerning Dodi actually exist.

I believe it exists. I don't believe he would be so shameless and so reckless to make up a story which involved a famous dead woman in his own biography, merely for the purpose of selling a little more books. He was a former Prime Minister.
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  #87  
Old 09-03-2014, 10:23 AM
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anbrida,

As a man who lived under the Blair Premiership I can assure you that the fact he was Prime Minister is no guarantee of his integrity, honesty or good will.
It is [convieniently] impossible for the truth of this coversation to be verified. We only have his word for it, and IMHO his word is not to be trusted !
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  #88  
Old 09-03-2014, 11:35 AM
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Kudos, anbrida!

Congratulations on making a genuinely analytical evaluation of the known facts about this relationship and supplying a well-reasoned explanation of how -and why-the facts fit together. I've not read anything which tied things up so neatly and logically. There is one further bit I would add: IIRC, didn't Dodi's father take out a long-term lease on the house previously occupied by the Duke and Duchess of Windsor? One story had it that Diana had been given a tour of the house on the day that she died. Perhaps that tour was the reason for the unexpected side trip to Paris after the vacation week.

Your mention of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis brought to mind her comment that she knew 'Ari' could provide her and her children with privacy and protection (this was in the immediate aftermath of Bobby Kennedy's assassination).

Thanks for all your research and clear thinking.

Meg

And as for this explanation being simplistic- sometimes the truth is simple.
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  #89  
Old 09-03-2014, 02:33 PM
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I can believe that Tony Blair may have cautioned her about getting too close to the Fayed family. Diana didn't know Dodi at the time of the conversation but she had accepted the invitation to take her sons on vacation with the Fayads. I can even believe that Blair had correctly predicted that Mohamed Al-Fayed was going to try and play matchmaker.

That said, I think the several flaws in Anbrida's analysis. First, Diana's closest friends did not think she was serious about Dodi Fayed. The posters on this board (and I include myself) may think that we know the hearts of the royal family, but we really don't. People like Rosa Monckton did and she doesn't think the relationship with serious. Diana had several flings with men she never intended to marry (i.e. Oliver Hoare, Will Carling, James Hewitt). The Fayeds were buying her gifts and she was having fun--at least until the day of the crash. I'm always struck by how strained and unhappy she looked when leaving the hotel--hardly the look of a newly engaged woman. She certainly was not wearing an engagement ring that night.

Second, Diana's commitment to charity work is highly overrated. The interview Anbrida cited is an example of Diana's self promotion. The facts are that Diana voluntarily cut back on charitable appearances before her divorce. After 1993, she made occasional appearances for charitable causes, including two photo opts on behalf of the campaign to ban landmines and she sometimes visited patients in private, but there were no signs she was increasing her charitable work at the time of her death. There were some indications that she was looking for the opportunity to do some high profile appearances, including some on behalf of charities.

Diana wouldn't have needed Dodi Fayed to fund her charitable work. Her own contacts and resources would have enabled her to raise all sorts of money for whatever cause(s) she wanted.

I don't think Diana was a perfect mother but she was a loving one. Diana would have considered William and Harry before she agreed to another marriage. By all accounts, the vacation with the Fayeds was a bust as far as they were concerned. Do you really think she would have decided to remarry without first talking it over with them? Her parents both remarried after their divorce and Diana would have been sensitive to her sons' feelings.

I agree that Diana was beginning to understand that she wasn't going to be able to marry a middle-class man and maintain her lifestyle--which was at least as important to her as her charity work. One of the main reasons Diana married Charles was because of his prestige, so I can believe she would marry another man for his money. I just don't think it would have been Dodi Fayed.

I think she had several reasons to get involved with him. She was using Dodi to try and make Hasnat Khan jealous. I also think she was also trying to goad the royal family. Finally, I think she really liked Dodi, was enjoying the lifestyle and presents, and was having fun.
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  #90  
Old 09-03-2014, 02:53 PM
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I'm not sure Diana was in love with Dodi and was going to marry him. I think that idea came from Dodi's father.

I think the man she was really in love with was Charles but she couldn't have him. I thinks she loved that man until the day she died.
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  #91  
Old 09-03-2014, 03:26 PM
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I think she was in love with love...not Charles. Poor dear, she was pushed toward Charles by everyone and then she was pushed toward Dodi by his father. Frankly, she never had a chance to mature.
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  #92  
Old 09-03-2014, 03:29 PM
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These were Tony Blair's own words about himself and Diana: "“We were both, in our own way, manipulators” — good at grasping the feelings of others and instinctively playing on them." The original article is here:Tony Blair: Diana was a manipulator like me - Telegraph
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  #93  
Old 09-03-2014, 11:29 PM
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Aniyda, I for one do not think your reasoning is simplistic. You obviously spent a lot of time reviewing this : as have many of us. I just don't agree with your entire thesis. I think all of us should be a little bit more careful when we disagree with someone and try to avoid pejorative terms.

That being said some of the points that she would not do that XYZ because of her sons, I don't agree with. Diana was not making the wisest decisions around that time. And there was a conflict between she and William after The yacht trip. Truthfully with her children not being happy with the situation, the security issues , Dodi's reputation and his father's motives , in. retrospect it would have been best not to go with him to Paris.

Very sad situation....

I still maintain that I don't trust Tony Blair there's a slightly different version of these events in Campbell's book and clearly Campbell came up with the People's Princess as a public relations tool. Since Tony Blair sold us on these invisible weapons of mass destruction, He can sell anything including ice water to an Eskimo
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  #94  
Old 09-04-2014, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
I think she was in love with love...not Charles. Poor dear, she was pushed toward Charles by everyone and then she was pushed toward Dodi by his father. Frankly, she never had a chance to mature.
Totally agree - she was in love with the idea of love and with no one else ever.
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  #95  
Old 09-04-2014, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
I don't believe he would be so shameless and so reckless to make up a story which involved a famous dead woman in his own biography, merely for the purpose of selling a little more books. He was a former Prime Minister.
Then you don't know Tony Blair.

As others have said, we lived with TB as PM for 10 years. His shamelessness and dishonesty is a proven fact. It would be hard to think of another living person in the UK who is so distrusted and disliked by the public. None of us believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
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  #96  
Old 09-04-2014, 05:09 AM
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This is a reply to the claim that I am overrating Diana's commitment to her charity work.

Quote:
"Nothing gives me greater happiness than trying to help the weakest in this society. It's a goal and, from now on, an essential part of my life. It's a sort of destiny."
When I read these words, actually I more focus on the phase "from now on" and "It's a sort of destiny".

It is not about commitment. Looking for happiness is human being's basic surviving instinct. Usually a person's greatest happiness are from two places -- family life and work. She said "it was a sort of destiny". Whenever she said "destiny", it gives me the feeling that it was not up to her, but her fate. If she believed that she couldn't get the happiness from her family life, then where can she find her happiness? It can only be her work. And she always considered her work was to make people happy, especially the poorest one. No, it is not about commitment, she was just trying to make the best out of what she could have.

And "from now on" ("now" = the summer of 1997), means the belief that she should look for the greatest happiness from her work was not always there, but only come into her mind not long before, which I think indicated that before that summer she still believed she could get the greatest happiness from a marriage, but she gave up now.

That explain why she broke up with Hasnat Khan around that time. She finally believed that a marriage between them was impossible. So seeking the greatest happiness from her work is a second choice after all those "hopes" of her personal life were extinguished. By "hopes" I mean (1) marriage with Hasnat Khan, (2) her "those wishful hopes" for Charles. On July 17, 1997, Charles throwed a big party to celebrate Camilla's coming to 50th age at Highgrove. It was a big blow to her, according to her friend. She talked to her friend "she felt all the darkness in her childhold has come back" and "felt being abandoned again". I think after the divorce, she kept a good relationship with Charles. Very likely she still had some little hopes for Charles. Otherwise she wouldn't have felt so hurt. No hope, no disappointment, right?!

I kind of think she had said those "nothing bring me..." words to herself many times before saying them in that interview. Leaving two men you really love, and going into a relationship (marriage) with a man you don't have too much feeling is not an easy decision. I imagine she'd have been persuading herself many times like "Diana, don't worry too much, you can still get your happiness from your work. You don't have any other choice. It is your destiny." (The reason I said two men here is, her marriage with dodi is equivalent to a marriage gate ticket to Charles and Camilla, that means Charles would leave her ultimately.)

But once she made up her mind, she would carry it through. She was always like that. That explains why merely a hospice plan was enough to buy her -- that is the only place she could seek real happiness, her personal life was too disappointing.
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  #97  
Old 09-04-2014, 06:24 AM
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Anyone can utter these words, of course. Even Vladimir Putin can say these words with dry eyes: "Nothing gives me greater happiness than trying to help the weakest in this society. It's a goal and, from now on, an essential part of my life. It's a sort of destiny."



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  #98  
Old 09-04-2014, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
Very likely she still had some little hopes for Charles. Otherwise she wouldn't have felt so hurt. No hope, no disappointment, right?!



I kind of think she had said those "nothing bring me..." words to herself many times before saying them in that interview. Leaving two men you really love, and going into a relationship (marriage) with a man you don't have too much feeling is not an easy decision. I imagine she'd have been persuading herself many times like "Diana, don't worry too much, you can still get your happiness from your work. You don't have any other choice. It is your destiny." (The reason I said two men here is, her marriage with dodi is equivalent to a marriage gate ticket to Charles and Camilla, that means Charles would leave her ultimately.)



.

I understand everything except this last paragraph. How is marriage to Dodi a marriage gate ticket to Charles and Camilla?
She did not love Dodi --she didn't even know him that long. I really don't think she was planning on marrying him. Princess Diana did not need to marry Dodi or anyone to fund her hospice or any other charity. She had. 17 million of her own. And just her name or as you pointed out , her photograph could generate a lot of money for her charities. After being a confining marriage to a member of the British Royal family, it seemed like she was taking some fledgling steps to try to grow up and discover who she really was. I don't think she was planning to be under the thumb any man.


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  #99  
Old 09-04-2014, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
I still maintain that I don't trust Tony Blair there's a slightly different version of these events in Campbell's book and clearly Campbell came up with the People's Princess as a public relations tool. Since Tony Blair sold us on these invisible weapons of mass destruction, He can sell anything including ice water to an Eskimo

If I have to make myself to believe that theory-- she did that to make Hasnat Khan jealousy. Then first I have to convince myself that Diana was the most shameless person. Not only she wanted to exploit Dodi's feeling to achieve her own purpose, but also she would have the gut to go on using his father's money to support her own charity. And she was the most naive person that she firmly believe Al Fayed, as smart and successful a business man he is, will be so foolish to be used in this way.

You see according Richard Kay, on the phone call on Aug 30, she so firmly believed Al Fayed would fund her hospice plan that, she planed an announcement to give up all her royal duties by the end 1997.

Al Fayed turns about to be such an angel that, he will be willing to support Diana's charity work, even though Diana was using his son to make another man jealousy. And Britain must be an evil country that they turned down this angel's application for nationality two times.

I also have to convince myself that Tony Blair, was not only another most shameless person, but also the cheapest, and most stupid person. He was so cheap that for a little more money, he would tell such a lie about his future king's mother. And he was so stupid that, he didn't write this lie anywhere, but in his own biography, a book which will be used to judge him in the history. But I was curious, if the purpose he wrote this lie in his book is to get more copies sell. Then what was his purpose to go to the ABC network to repeat this story again? Can he get money from the network?

Tony Blair: Princess Diana a "Meteor" in the Queen's "Ecosystem" - ABC News

Quote:
In an exclusive interview with "This Week's" Christiane Amanpour, former UK prime minister Tony Blair said he was worried about Princess Diana after her marriage with Prince Charles ended and she started dating Dodi Fayed.

"I was worried for her, frankly," Blair told Amanpour. "And I was worried because it was obviously going to be extremely difficult. And I wanted her to know, you know, what were the implications and consequences of all it was going to be."
I also have to convince myself that Britain is such a speechless country that, its people would let such a shameless, cheap, stupid person to be their Prime Minister for seven years. And Britain's future is so dim that not only because their future King and his brother's mother was such a shameless person, but also because the future King and his brother are also so shameless themselves that they are so proud of such a mother. Due to genes probably.

Sorry, I don't think things in such an extreme way. I can not buy that theory.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:25 AM
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This is an example of Mr. Blair's deceit
"rather than heed growing international calls to lift those sanctions, George W Bush and his neoconservative band chose war which they and their British cohort Prime Minster Tony Blair then sold to the gullible Western population on lies too numerous too list. They were aided by complicit right-wing media with Rupert Murdoch leading the charge, according to diaries of Blair's former spin doctor Alastair Campbell.

Blair was aware that the war would be illegal in the absence of an explicit UN resolution, as his legal advisor attorney general Lord Goldsmith had determined, but he went ahead regardless even as millions of anti-war protestors thronged London's streets. He didn't hesitate to sign-off on an intelligence dossier for public consumption falsely claiming that Iraq could deploy WMD against British interests with 45 minutes of receiving the order to do so--and another containing tracts from a student's thesis published on the internet, typos and all."

From information clearinghouse.com

There are many other references. There are also many references to Al- Fayed's shady busy dealings and Dodi's hard partying lifestyle .

So no I don't believe Tony Blair. His motive may not be money but also to put a positive spin on his name as some sort of confidence of Princess Diana. Just think how many books are still being written by the so-called friends of hers revealing some little details. What's the motivation: they get attention and they get money because she was famous and beloved woman. As for Richard Kay, he made his entire career on gossip about Diana and by exploiting her fragility and insecurities. She's been gone for 17 years and he still doing it. So I always take things he writes a grain of salt.

And although she was having a good time with Dodi and little show off time in the newspaper from running around with him, she's was not going to marry him.


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Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

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