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  #61  
Old 08-20-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quite the opposite actually. I idolized and adored Diana. I thought she was the perfect princess. She had my sympathy in "the War of the Walses."

However, during the Panorama interview, I got my first feelings that things weren't as they seemed. As I listened to the second part of the interview in particular, she took a different tone. I'm used to being around people who aren't quite "in the real world", people who think that they have superior abilities almost like "superpowers." In Diana's interview, she struck me as being like one of those individuals. There was something in her tone and manner that didn't seem "normal" to me. I can't quote her line by line; I can only tell you my impression at the time.

Her manner made me uncomfortable on an emotional level. It wasn't even necessarily what she said. It was more in her attitude.

It took me by surprise, actually. I certainly had no "prejudice" as you put it.


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Originally Posted by anbrida View Post
Which manner of her make you feel she was unsettling? Can you get into details. Without detailed explanation, such blind talk is quite meaningless. It will only make people feel you have prejudice against her.

Here is the definition of prejudice
"preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience."
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  #62  
Old 08-20-2014, 04:27 PM
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Agreed. He's been discredited in many people's eyes. I wouldn't necessarily believe what he says either.

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I am afraid Mr Blair's answers are and always have been disappointing and I would't believe a single word he says, written or otherwise.
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  #63  
Old 08-20-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Quite the opposite actually. I idolized and adored Diana. I thought she was the perfect princess. She had my sympathy in "the War of the Walses."

However, during the Panorama interview, I got my first feelings that things weren't as they seemed. As I listened to the second part of the interview in particular, she took a different tone. I'm used to being around people who aren't quite "in the real world", people who think that they have superior abilities almost like "superpowers." In Diana's interview, she struck me as being like one of those individuals. There was something in her tone and manner that didn't seem "normal" to me. I can't quote her line by line; I can only tell you my impression at the time.

Her manner made me uncomfortable on an emotional level. It wasn't even necessarily what she said. It was more in her attitude.

It took me by surprise, actually. I certainly had no "prejudice" as you put it.
Yeah, that Panorama interview came about during the darkest periods in Diana's life and a very painful time as well. It was an interview that she regretted later on.

There are no perfect princesses and there never was.
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  #64  
Old 08-20-2014, 04:39 PM
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IMO neither Mr Blair nor the late Princess of Wales EVER deserved the widespread adulation they received.. both developed a nauseating taste and talent for self-publicism and care[d] little for the damage this addiction caused to institutions or individuals.
Unfortunately Mr Blair is still around to wreak further havoc...
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Old 08-20-2014, 05:25 PM
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IMO neither Mr Blair nor the late Princess of Wales EVER deserved the widespread adulation they received.. both developed a nauseating taste and talent for self-publicism and care[d] little for the damage this addiction caused to institutions or individuals.
Unfortunately Mr Blair is still around to wreak further havoc...
Despite her mistakes, I think Diana was a wonderful Princess of Wales and had a real connection with the people. Parts of her private life sucked big time but her official public life and roles were great.
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  #66  
Old 08-21-2014, 07:09 AM
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Does anyone really believe, Tony Blair would make up a lie, which involved a woman who died 13 years ago (A Journey was published in 2010), only for the purpose of publicism? It is ridiculous. Not to mention how immoral it is to do such thing, just think about what is the possible consequence. He didn't disclosed this story any where else, he disclosed this in his own autobiography, a book which will be used to define his year as the prime minister and to judge him as a person in the history. How could he make up such a unnecessary lie in such an important book, giving people a chance to claim him a lair in the history?

I firmly believe such conversation did exist. He is a former Prime Minister, not a Global magazine writer.

So what was the purpose he would disclose this story right now. I think one of the post here is already very close to the point. “can any one imagine a British Prime Minister, ruled by his demanding agenda, making the time for this sort of futilities as private flings of former royal spouses?”. So either the talk never happened, or it was not only a summer fling but a very serious relationship, so serious that Diana would want to consult with Prime Minister. Why she would consult with him? it was not because the Prime Minister had any responsibility to give advice for an ex-royal spouse, it was because at that time they were in a cooperative relationship. Tony Blair wanted her to be an informal Ambassador, so her image (not in Britain, but in those possible host countries) was important to this role.

Have any one ever wondered why he only disclosed what he had said, but said nothing about what Diana had said?
After Diana died, everyone including her close friends said she was not serious with Dodi, it was just a summer fling, it was her way to make Hasnat Khan jealousy. If what Diana told Blair was the same to this version of story, there is no need to hide the content of conversation, right? I think Tony Blair didn't want to disclose what Diana had said, was because what she had said was different to the most popular story the public was told.


In an interview Tony Blair once talked about one of his purposes for the book,
“You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel both a sense of responsibility and a deep sadness for those who have lost their lives. That responsibility stays with me now, and will stay with me for the rest of my life. “
After Diana died, he might be the only one who knew the truth, and the truth he knew was very different to the story the public were told (Actually I really think the story of making Hasnat Khan jealousy story very ridiculous) . So he felt the responsibility to say something, but couldn't disclose all of them, because Al-Fayed is still alive, and till this day he still believes his son and Diana were murdered because they were to marry. If Tony came out and say something which supports Al-Fayed's marriage claim, then the Diana' law case might start-over again.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:12 AM
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I have always found it impossible to believe Diana would ever, ever have married a man like Dodi Fayed!

(No matter how much she may have wanted to spite Charles, she was a product of her class and upbringing, and I just can't buy that she ever took that relationship seriously! )
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  #68  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I have always found it impossible to believe Diana would ever, ever have married a man like Dodi Fayed!

(No matter how much she may have wanted to spite Charles, she was a product of her class and upbringing, and I just can't buy that she ever took that relationship seriously! )
Why would she never have taken that relationship seriously? Seeing the fact that she holidayed with Dodi, even in the presence of her children, seems an indication for the seriousness of that relationship. Diana also took Hasnat Khan very seriously. And James Hewitt. And Barry Mannakee. And James Gilbey. And Oliver Hoare. All of them have enjoyed the pleasure to be allowed in the most private lifesphere of the (once) future Queen of the United Kingdom.
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  #69  
Old 08-21-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Why would she never have taken that relationship seriously? Seeing the fact that she holidayed with Dodi, even in the presence of her children, seems an indication for the seriousness of that relationship. Diana also took Hasnat Khan very seriously. And James Hewitt. And Barry Mannakee. And James Gilbey. And Oliver Hoare. All of them have enjoyed the pleasure to be allowed in the most private lifesphere of the (once) future Queen of the United Kingdom.
Except for Hasnat and James, the others were just rumors but no hard proof of relationships.
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  #70  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:06 AM
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Despite her mistakes, I think Diana was a wonderful Princess of Wales and had a real connection with the people. Parts of her private life sucked big time but her official public life and roles were great.
I agree. If you never knew anything at all about her private life she would be considered beyond reproach. From the beginning of her time as Princess of Wales she carried out her public duties with dedication and true compassion.

In that respect, she was amazing.
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  #71  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I agree. If you never knew anything at all about her private life she would be considered beyond reproach. [....]
That is exactly why there needs to be a certain distance between the public and the monarchy. That is the so called "shadow of the throne". This distance keeps the magic, the extraordinary, the specialness of the monarchy.

The closer it all comes, not only by exposing all what is private but also making your classmate, your roommate, your fitness club trainer or the lady who daily came into your living room presenting the news "royal", the distance has completely gone. The difference between a"celeb" and a royal has become totally blurred. Diana was -unwanted or wanted- the motor behind destroying this so necessary distance.
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  #72  
Old 08-21-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I agree. If you never knew anything at all about her private life she would be considered beyond reproach. From the beginning of her time as Princess of Wales she carried out her public duties with dedication and true compassion.

In that respect, she was amazing.
I agree and I think her future was bright. I think after those hard and hurtful years of her private life, there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Sadly, her life was taken when she was very young, full of energy and purpose. I and so many others miss her dearly, but I know her children and family miss her even more.
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  #73  
Old 08-22-2014, 01:43 AM
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Thanks for posting the article.

IMO, this article states it was Diana's idea to visit China not Blair's.

She was still attacking Charles just 2 months before she died.
"He was born to the wrong job."

Her only accurate statement about herself.
"I have so much baggage."
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  #74  
Old 08-31-2014, 12:04 PM
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Here I wanted to present my analysis and understanding of Diana's behavior, motivation and the true nature of her relationship with Dodi. The post is very long, and it has to be very long, because the story is so complicated. But it was still short, compared to the time I spent to reach to this final conclusion (it has been 17 years since her death).

I think Diana got in the relationship with Dodi with the purpose of marriage from the very beginning. But it was not out of real affection or love. I think she got the inspiration from Jacqueline*Kennedy. She talked about Dodi with Tony Blair as early as July 6, when she had not even met him. Could she have any real feeling for Dodi at that time? Definitely not, they were not even seeing each other then. Could it be just a fling? Definitely not, you won't talk about your fling with another man with the Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister wouldn't have time to talk about that with you. The fact is not only Tony Blair had spent a substantial time to talk about Dodi with her, but also he included this talk in his own biography.

It was a serious relationship with the purpose for a marriage. However, as far as Diana was concerned, it was not out of real feeling or real affection not to mention love. That explains why the relationship can progress in such a tornado speed – Their first formal date was a dinner in Paris on July 26, then on Aug 2, she kissed him openly, and by Aug 13, she'd already given him her father's cufflinks. Since real feeling, real love were not her main consideration with respect to this relationship, the courtship should be as short as possible. Just like the courtship between she and Charles – Charles had only dated her 13 times before he proposed to her.

Quote:
August 13, Diana saw Dodi again and gave her father's cufflinks to Dodi. She wrote about the gift: "Darling Dodi, these cufflinks were the very last gift that I received from the man I loved most in the world, my father. They are given to you as I know how much joy it would give him to know they were in such safe and special hands. Fondest love, from Diana." This is a strong indication of a very serious relationship.
However that relationship was not going smooth. On Aug 15, Kelly Fisher, Dodi's (rumor) engaged girlfriend, filed a lawsuit against Dodi Fayed for breaking off their engagement. But at that time Diana was on vacation with Rosa on a small boat (Aug 15-Aug 20), it had a delay for the news to reach her. She still went for another vacation with Dodi on Aug 21st. But obviously Kelly Fisher's incident had changed her plan FOR A WHILE. I think finally she believed that Dodi was two-timing her. From Aug 23 to Aug 29, she had phoned more than 5 friends, telling them “there is nothing between she and Dodi”, “she and Dodi were just friends”, “I need marriage just like a rash on my face”. It seems the relationship was about to be over to this point.

But on Aug 29, the relationship came across a big U-turn. On Aug 29, Diana called Paul Burrel to inform him a change in her trip. Originally, she planned to flight back to London directly from southern France, now suddenly she decided to go with Dodi to Paris on Aug 30 before coming back to London. She informed Paul Burrel the change at such a late moment, it was very likely a last-minute change of plan. Also on Aug 29, according to the Diana's inquiry report, Dodi told his legal adviser “he had 'very exciting news' regarding him and Diana. And as a result of the 'very exciting news' he had a number of things which he would need to discuss with his legal adviser on Sep 1st.” And at the same night, Diana called William, during which according to the Queen's cousin, they had a row.

I think there must be something unexpected happened on the later day of Aug 29, which made Diana change her plan of trip, which was related to the “very exciting news” in Dodi's eyes, which was important enough that Diana had to called William and which William was obviously not very fond of. And I think Dodi wanted to talk to his legal adviser in such a hurry, is because he wanted to settle down Kelly Fisher's law suit as soon as possible.

It is highly likely that the unexpected thing happened on Aug 29 was the hospice plan Diana talked about in a phone call to Richard Kay on Aug 30. The phone call lasted around 30 minutes at around 6:30pm. Diana told Kay she was discussing with Mr Al-Fayed the possibility of setting up a worldwide hospice network, which Al-Fayed would be prepare to financially underwrite. She'd never mentioned such a plan with anyone before Aug 29.

Quote:
“It was to be a very major announcement. It was something she wanted to do, rather than things that other people wanted her to do. “

“It was such an important development that she was going to stop taking on royal engagement after the end of 1997." “Perhaps my destiny is to go abroad,” she told Kay.
It would be too insensitive to think that the hospice plan, her last-minute change of her trip plan, Dodi's exciting news regarding their relationship, and her phone call to William are independent events. After receiving such a big gift from Al-fayed, could she just turn around and run away from his son? No. The problem is how she was going to return the favor? Al Fayed offered such a generous package at the end of the summer holiday season, his intention was very obvious. That was his last attempt to woe her. The consequence of accepting this hospice plan, obviously, was Dodi's “very exciting news” – a big development in their relationship, and their trip to Paris. And this development in their relationship was important enough that she had to talked to William first. It was not hard to understand why William was not fond of it.

She said the hospice plan was still in discussion, but it seems there was no time for discussing at all. Because a major announcement was going to make, and she was going to stop taking on royal engagement because of that. The decision was already made, in a very short time.

However even though she had accepted that gift, it doesn't mean there would be an announcement of engagement right away, at least not before Kelly Fisher's law suite was settled down. That explains why Dodi was in such a hurry to see his legal adviser. But the intention was strong. If you look at the cctv footage when she and Dodi were waiting for the Mercedes car at the lobby of Ritz Hotel, their movements and demeanor could not come from a couple about to break up next day at all. At one point, Dodi even kissed her ear as he draws her closer. It was not only a proof of love (at least from Dodi to her), but also showed that Dodi'd already treated her as his woman. (Part One End)
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  #75  
Old 08-31-2014, 12:08 PM
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(Part Two) I know it was an odd decision to a lot of people. But I think it was a natural decision from Diana. At around Aug 21st,1997, right in the middle of her series vacations, she gave her last interview to a French Magazine, Le Monde. At the end of the interviews, she said the following words,

Quote:
“Nothing gives me greater happiness that trying to help the weakest in this society. It's a goal and, from now on, an essential part of my life. It's a sort of destiny. I will run to anyone who calls to me in distress, wherever it is”.
If put these sentences into the context of a series of decisions she made around that time, they sort of explain what was in her mind behind these decisions in that summer. Generally speaking, it told us how much she was willing to devote herself to her humanitarian work. Since nothing could gives her greater happiness than her work, the underlying meaning is she considered her work more important than her man. However, she used the phase “from now on” here, which means the decision of such devotion was made recently. Therefore, I reckon that the reason she broke up with Hasnat Khan, and got into the relationship with Dodi, was because “from now on” she decided that she should seek her ultimate happiness from her work rather than her man. Because “it's a sort of (her) destiny”. I think at that time she was very disappointed with what had happened in her personal life. When you tried and tried, and still can not see the light, then you would believe it is due to destiny. These disappointments had finally driven her to believe that it was her fate she could only achieve real happiness from her work.

Therefore one of the reason I think she wanted to marry Dodi was to settle down herself and give a period mark to her very disappointing search of personal love. No hope then no disappointment. Without the distraction of her personal life, she could devote to her work with her whole heart and from there she should seek her greatest happiness. That was her plan. Moreover although Dodi was very likely not her true love, he could help her to make films to support her causes, he could provide her enough fund to make her dream of the hospices network come true. According to her own words, Dodi would be the man who could gave her the greatest happiness. With this hindsight, the decision she made at the end of her life was very reasonable and natural. She wanted to marry a man who gave her the greatest happiness, a very fair decision, right? No wonder she would have made the decision to accept the hospices plan in such a short time.

If marry Dodi, she would finally have a chance to move abroad too. This is another fundamental factor. In her last interview (Aug 21st,1997), she implied strongly that she wanted to move abroad. The reason she had not yet done so was because of her sons. I reckon that when she meant her sons, she meant her sons' security problem'. In June, Rosa once asked her why she would accept Al Fayed's invitation for vacation, the reason she gave was because Al Fayed had a big security team to protect her sons, which solved a big headache of hers. In her phone call to Richard Kay on Aug 30 she said “Perhaps my destiny is to move abroad” again, which I think was another strong indication of marriage. (Part Two End)
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:13 PM
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(Part 3) Here is my conclusion. From the beginning, Diana get in the relationship with Dodi for the purpose of a marriage. But Kelly Fisher's incident changed her mind for a while. However at the end, the hospices plan pulled her back to the relationship. But it was not personal love she was seeking for from this relationship, to the contrary, she wanted to bury it. She wanted to find a man who could give her most help in her work, which she believed would give her the greatest happiness. Moving abroad is another thing she was seeking for from the relationship. (And her last interview also gives me a fairly strong impression that Dodi being a Muslim was another factor she would have picked him.)

This is my analysis of course. But this analysis could explain several things also. It explains why the old Al-Fayed would have been so persistently and stubbornly sticking to the marriage story through the whole span of Diana's law case. No one can be so persistent, if he didn't even believe it himself. Think about how much money and time he had spent on it.

It somehow explains the vague words Tony Blair spoke to Alastair Campbell on the night she died. I think it was because he knew her real motivation to be with Dodi (It makes me more suspicious that Dodi being a Muslim was an important factor. Tony Blair's words sounds like not only she wanted to marry a Muslim, but also to have a child with a Muslim. I hope one day Blair would finally tell us what Diana had talked to him during their meeting)

Quote:
“He felt that it (the accident) happened as she was fairly close to the height of her appeal. Dodi was probably a step too far for a lot of people. Had she got married, had another child maybe, she'd have started to fall in popularity. But this will confirm her as a real icon.'' – Extract from Alastair Campbell's diary “The Blair's years” on the night Diana died
It also explains why after 13 years Tony Blair still felt the need to mention his talk with Diana about Dodi during the July 6 meeting in his biography, but without giving any substantial details. I think he didn't like the stories the public has been told about Diana and Dodi's relationship, but he couldn't speak it out loud his opinion, because Al Fayed is still alive.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:00 AM
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Here is an extract of her own words from the last interview she had ever done. It took place on Aug 21st, 1997 in Kensington Palace, and published on Aug 27th 1997 on a French Magazine Le Monde. The following words gives me a very strong impression that Dodi being a Muslim was a factor in her consideration.

Quote:
"From the first day I jointed that family, nothing could be done naturally any more.

"I feel close to people, whoever they are. We're immediately at the same level, on the same wavelength. That's why I upset certain circles. It's because I'm much closer to the people at the bottom than the people at the top, and the latter won't forgive me for it. I have a real feeling of closeness with the most humble people. My father always taught me to treat everyone as an equal. I've always done so, and I'm sure that Harry and William will follow in my footsteps.

"Being constantly in the public eye gives me a special responsibility, particularly that of using the impact of photographs to transmit a message, to sensitize the world to an important cause, to defend certain values."
She said because she was closer to the people at the bottom, the people from the top won't forgive her for it. Notice that she used a very strong phase “won't forgive” here. I wonder what kind of bottom people she was closing to at that time, to the the extent that the upper people won't forgive her? An very easy guess is she was referring her intimate relationship with Muslim man. Her own mother France Shand called her a “whore” on a phone call in June 1997, when she found out Diana was in a serious relationship with Muslim man. She said she was messing around with f****** Muslim men and she was disgraceful. And meanwhile Hasnat Khan had been receiving unnamed black mail threatening to take his life.

If she was an ordinary woman, I don't think dating a Muslim man would be a big issue. However, due to her status as the mother of the future King, some people especially the people of her heretical class might think of her as a disgrace to the country.

Here is my understanding the what she meant in the first two paragraphs:

From the first day she joined the Royal family, she couldn't do any thing in a natural way, such as dating any man she wanted to be with regardless of religion or background. Some people from the top were unhappy of her choice of man. However her father had always taught her to treat everyone as an equal. This was her own rule of life which she always followed. And she believed that her children would follow the same rule. (Here I think she was implying that she believed her sons would support her on this matter that her partner's religion and background wouldn't be a problem to them. That was most important to her.)

And then she talked about how she would use her photograph to achieve something. Not long before this interview was conducted, she invited a paparazzi herself to take the take the “kiss” picture. Her action was so weird that even the paparazzi himself felt very confused. What was her purpose?

She gave three reasons to use the impact of photographs: transmit a message, to sensitize the world to an important cause, to defend certain values. “Transmit a message” is a general purpose. “Sensitize the world to an important cause” are referring to her photos of touching Aids, leprosy people, or holding a landmine. Then what photo is corresponding to “defend certain values”?

What value was she trying to defend? What value has to be defended? What value was under challenging at that time? From the context of her words and her action around that time, it is most likely that she was talking about the value “everyone as an equal”. It was her typical way to do things. If she wanted to lift the prejudice against some particular group of people in the society, like aids, she would go to “touch” these people herself and show the world, “see, if the Princess of Wales can do it, you can do it too.” This is the way I perceive her motivation behind the “kiss” photo, that is to defend the value that “everyone as an equal”.

Perhaps, Dodi was not happened to be a Muslim, but must be a Muslim. That was her way to defend her value “everyone as an equal”.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:02 PM
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I know some are still interested, but after 17 years of rehashing the Diana/Dodi relationship, I'm worn out. We will never know. Your interpretation seems far too simplistic, IMO. I even disagree that she would have ever married Dodi...she had too much to lose.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:29 PM
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I agree KittyAtlanta....on ALL points!
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:31 PM
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On the subject of Diana and Muslim men, I really don't see that there would be really any problems on Diana's side should she have decided to marry someone of the Islam faith. The problem that would arise would have been more so with the family she was marrying into. I believe Diana did go and meet Hasnat Khan's family and IIRC, they weren't overly enthused about her. It was eventually the baggage of fame and publicity that came with Diana that made Dr. Khan think twice.

It would have been quite different I think with Dodi's family. Dodi's father, Mr. Al Fayed had been seeking admittance to the higher echelons of British society for years (even to the point of buying a Scottish castle) and I have suspicions that it was his machinations that pushed Diana and Dodi together. That would have been quite a coup for him.
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