Charles and Diana

[Denville]

And how woudl her past not possibly come back and be a problem, if she were not a virgin? Davina Sheffield lived with someone who talked to the newspapers and that finished her romance with him.

As for Philip -as far as Im aware, it is quoted in charles's biography by Dimbleby that Philip wrote to him saying that he should get on with his romance with Diana, and I understand that Charles showed the letter to friends as an indication of Philip pressuring him.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.

 

[Denville]

Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.

well she's problaby not going to say that too loudly. But I have seen articles in the paper at the time by conservative commentators saying that the queen should not have allowed him to live with Sophie.. SHe probably kept an apartment - why not? I Understand that Kate too kept an apartment but mostly lived with William.
Well Im glad that you agree that Phil did write a letter which Charles showed ot friends. It may not have literally been an ultimatum but it clearly was Philip giving some "advice" and probalby wording it strongly.. and saying (which was IMO fair comment), that if C didn't sort things out with Diana and get himself engaged.. that it would look bad and that if he let her go, and had to start again and find anothter young woman, sooner or later there would be noone left, unless he was going to marry someone more than 20 years his junior.

 

[Curryong]

I don't think it went so far as that, even. AFAIR Bradford in her Diana biography, having got the gist of the letter from one or two of those who saw it, said that Philip was a bit impatient but the letter was temperate and reasonable. It supposedly said that Diana was only a very young woman and had been spotted at Balmoral etc by the Press, (who were by then going quite wild with excitement.) Therefore, (the letter went on to say, apparently) Charles should make up his mind sooner rather than later as to whether he was serious about Lady Diana, as otherwise her reputation might well be damaged.

 

[Denville]

I think that Charles interepreted it as pushing him.. because it was. Phil is a bully and he's impatient with Charles. And C knew that it was time for him to marry. he knew that Diana was in terms of breeding, reputation etc a perfect wife for him and that it was true that if he let her go, he would have to start and find antother girl to marry, and the next well bred Protestant virgin might be younger, less pretty, less sweet..
I find it hard to believe that anyone thought Di's reputation would be damaged by a perfectly respectable courtship with the heir to the throne. But I think it would haven been a bit of bad press for C if he'd gone out with Di whom the papers adored by then, for some months and then dropped her..
and I think that he knew that if he did let Diana go, Phil would probably be on his back then and saying "Come on, Charles make your mind up. YOu let that Di Spencer girl go, everyone was cross with you and now you're 32 for Gods sake, its time you got married."
Because He HAD reached an age where he relaly had to decide, and get himself wed. and I think he did have an attraction to Diana, liked her..but had a few doubts and fears and was probably uneasily conscious that he still cared a lot for Camilla. and that if he let this perfect young woman go, Phil and even the queen might start gioing on to him about it..

 

[Denville]

Much is made of Charles' devotion to Camilla; I think that is true now, but back then?
There were many, many other women in his life, it's not like Camilla was the one and only.
The rivalry and hostility between Camilla and Kanga Tryon was notorious in that circle.

Plus there were others, like Whiplash Wallace, Jane Wellesley, and Davina Sheffield.

So I really don't think it was Charles' love for Camilla that sabotaged his marriage to Diana. I believe the problems in the marriage drove him back into Camilla's arms, but before that, I think he and Diana simply didn't mesh the way they'd hoped.

Yes there had been other women in Chalres' life. Thats quite Normal IMO. But Camilla was the one he kept going back to, as a friend or a lover.
I beleive that he was very attracted to Anna Wallace but I dont think she was a serious candidate for a wife.. Nor was Jane Wellesley. I think that these were physical relationships, passionate but short lived.
And when the marriage to Diana went wrong, it was Camilla he turned to, not any of his other old girlfriends. Im not saying it was "the perfect love" because it wasnt.. noone has a perfect love. But I think that it was the one that was really special.
I believe that with a girl he was fond of, who hadnt got Di's problems, Charles would have put aside Camilla and grown to love her.
But that wasn't what he got..and he needed Cam to be his confidante..

I think he WANTED to love Diana, did up to a point but basically once they were married her problems kicked in and became huge ones.. and he just found it very hard to live with someone bulimic, who was ill and bad tempered and moody and unhappy, and who refused to get help.
And Sadly I think the whole marriage etc really added to the damage in Dianas psyche, and she became a very difficult person..

 

[Katrianna]

I remember a Daily Mail article (yes, I know) I read some months before Charles and Camilla wed that stated during the time the couple had a serious relationship when Camilla was still single, Charles dithered around trying to make up his mind whether to ask Camilla to marry him. The story went on to state that Charles, instead chose to take on a naval assignment that would have out to sea for a while. That Charles dithered so much, Camilla grew tired of Charles lack of decision and soon took up with Andrew Parker-Bowles whom she had known and was friends with. When they married, Charles was devastated.
The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.

 

[Denville]

I The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.

That story has been around before Katrianna, I think its in the film version of "Diana her true story" and possibly Andrew Morton has it In the book, I dont know.
I don't really think it is likely. Maybe Charles did think of proposing to Camilla, but I think he realised that there would be difficulty in getting permission because of her past, and she was also heavily involved with Andrew PB.. not exactly the ideal situation for a future queen that she's been having an affair with a notorious womaniser and seems to be as much in love with him as with her royal suitor. So I don't really believe that Charles seriously thought of marrying her. But its certain that when she married Andrew PB he was upset and felt devastated.. Perhaps he hoped that she'd remain single and be around for him, for a longer time.
And I think that back then Camilla was fond of her prince but wasn't as much in love with him.. she was in love with Andrew and hoped to persuade him to marry her. and I believe she wasn't interested in a public life either, and would have been reluctant.. maybe not totally unwilling but would have not been very sure about giving up her freedom for a lifetime of cutting ribbons..

 

[Katrianna]

Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post. Camilla was and still is a country life woman and I'm sure would not have relished the "royal life and spotlight" and she surely would not have liked the press scrutiny of her sexual backround if she had accepted a proposal of marriage from Charles. She had her sights set on Andrew Parker-Bowles and the quiet country life that came with such a marriage.
As we all know by now, Charles and Camilla married another person, but as history would have it, life took a different turn than it should have, especially for Charles and his marriage to a beautiful popular aristocratic girl.

 

[Denville]

Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post.marriage.
.

I think she also loved Andrew much more than Charles then. I think that she got fed up with Andrew within a while, not enough to break up with him, but annoyed at his constant womanising. It was probably amusing before they got married but hurtful and tiring to cope with when they were married.
I think at first Charles was someone she was very fond of, and it was a thrill to be the Princes' girlfriend, but she didn't want to marry him. and she problably would not have been OKed by the queen.
but gradually I think that she grew to love Charles more and while still fond of Andrew, she was annoyed by him more and turned to C for the affection and devotion that And didn't give her.
I know Charles is a ditherer, and maybe he DID dither about "I love Camilla, maybe she would be a good person to marry"... but I don't think he was very committed to the idea. I certainly don't think he went off ot sea and Camilla decided not to wait for him...

 

[Dee Anna]

I do believe Charles was the one for Diana. Sadly, the same sentiment wss not returned.

Had she cared less (and if so why bother?!) her life could have been very different.

Prince Charles was the love of Princess Diana's life, her close friend claims

 

[Lee-Z]

I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...

 

[Denville]

I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...

I don't think they did. A bit yes, but I don't think that Di had reached any real acceptance of Charles' being with Camilla... I think she was polite for the sake of the boys, and because people were getting a bit fed up with the whole drama and if she had continued to look as if she was still at odds with him, she might put the public off her.
Charles was I would say the same. He had got to a point of very very fed up iwht her and maybe as the divorce went through, he began to lose the resentment and anger.. but it was just happening gradually.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, I can't imagine all the pain and hurt feelings going away once the divorce went through. Had Diana lived into middle age and beyond after the divorce, perhaps they could have become warm friends again. However, had Charles married Camilla while Diana was alive, even years after the divorce, I think that Diana might have had a problem with her having any kind of relationship with William and Harry. I think that it would depend on whether Diana found a good man and established a stable relationship or marriage of her own, perhaps with another child or two. A dream situation would have been Diana and Charles with their new respective spouses and happy at their sons' weddings. That would have been a "happily ever after" in itself. However, life taking the turns that it did, that wasn't to be.

 

[Denville]

Yes, I can't imagine all the pain and hurt feelings going away once the divorce went through. Had Diana lived into middle age and beyond after the divorce, perhaps they could have become warm friends again. However, had Charles married Camilla while Diana was alive, even years after the divorce, I think that Diana might have had a problem with her having any kind of relationship with William and Harry.

I find it hard to see Diana reaching that degree of calm and maturity. Perhaps because before her death she was in a volatile state... and I think that the scars on her personality caused by her childhood and aggravated by her long unhappy marriage meant she was too needy to find a very settled relationship.

And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

 

[AdmirerUS]

...And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

Well, I think by some of what we write, WE have not gotten over the Camilla situation - and we were not even in the relationship.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, agreed re the Camilla situation. It would have taken a very long time for Diana to recover from that.

 

[Mbruno]

I find it hard to see Diana reaching that degree of calm and maturity. Perhaps because before her death she was in a volatile state... and I think that the scars on her personality caused by her childhood and aggravated by her long unhappy marriage meant she was too needy to find a very settled relationship.

And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana were still alive. It would have been considered too risky for the future of the monarchy and the Queen would not have allowed it unless Charles renounced his succession rights, which in turn would have required an act of parliament and all the complicated ratification process in the other Commonwealth realms that we saw with the recent Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Divorce is divorce. The Queen's own daughter divorced too and in the same year of divorce remarried while her first husband was still alive, so the precedent was there, allowing her child to remarry someone else.

 

[MARG]

I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana were still alive. It would have been considered too risky for the future of the monarchy and the Queen would not have allowed it unless Charles renounced his succession rights, which in turn would have required an act of parliament and all the complicated ratification process in the other Commonwealth realms that we saw with the recent Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

I really don't think the Queen would have denied his right to remarry. As to making it conditional on him renouncing his succession rights, no way would she have acted in a way that split her family and endanger the monarchy.

The other thing you have to remember, and that seems to always be permanently ignored or glossed over, before Diana's death her behaviour was such that questions were asked in Parliament about who's paying for her 'lifestyle' as illustrated by the photo of her in her aqua bathing suit sitting on the end of the diving board, alternately doing the "lonely me" and the "lucky me" poses. Nothing like mixed messages.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...hRVZFm7LIEZmSlOfOyDMmG7KUJ0Uagwt5leT-pQopVIhw

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...-kMsGMSBIcCYYX5L-3jdv32zqyOpbE-RAL8ksscgr_u6w

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...nZt9WGLYLmKYwzOyz-JPg5wCJNHqBPmhw_03_meEe4DV9

 

[Denville]

Well, I think by some of what we write, WE have not gotten over the Camilla situation - and we were not even in the relationship.

Blessed if I know why? Certianly there are people who do seem to continue "holding a grudge" against her, but well lets face it, she's been married to Charles for a decade, she's been a fairly good Duchess, and Charles seems happy.. what is the point

I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana were still alive. It would have been considered too risky for the future of the monarchy and the Queen would not have allowed it unless Charles renounced his succession rights, which in turn would have required an act of parliament and all the complicated ratification process in the other Commonwealth realms that we saw with the recent Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

No, the 2 reasons for allowing the divorce were (1) to end the marriage becuase it was clear that as long as they were still married, Diana was a problem.. whereas with her divorced they could "cut her loose" to an extent, and also ensure her silence in public, by confidentiailtiy agreements in the divorce.
The other was to allow Charles the freedom to remarry. He had admitted to an affair with Camilla, and by old fashioned protocol that really meant that he should marry her..
I think that the queen (and some of the public) woudl have preferred if he gave Cam up and ruled alone.. but clearly Charles loved Cam, was going to go on seeing her and because of that, it was clear that he had to marry her.
The queen didn't want him to give up his succession rights, becuase she is very conservative. Nor did he because he has been trained for being king all his life and I think he felt that why should he give up his job because of a bad marriage?
So he waited for soem time, till the QM had passed on, till his sons were older, and til the public had accepted Camilla as his partner and not a monster in human form but just a normal woman who had made some mistakes.. and by 2005, they were generally ready to accpet her as his wife.

 

[Katrianna]

If I may add just pure speculation on my part. It had to be tough on Diana during the marriage and after the divorce because Charles had Camilla throughout the marriage problems, but after the divorce and he, if you will, stayed true to Camilla until they were married. Diana, by contrast, had relationships with several men and was unable to find the ONE. In addition, some the men kissed and told on her about their relationships, so a betrayal so to speak. Here's the most popular and beautiful Royal in the world and she can't find love after losing the man she loved and thought would stay with her forever. It had to gnaw at her.
I once read that Diana supposedly advised Charles after the divorce to marry Camilla and make a decent woman of her. I can't believe that ever happened. There was too much animosity Diana held for Camilla.

 

[Osipi]

One thing for sure that came out of a nasty marriage for Charles was that he came to realize he did have a backbone. Once the marriage had ended, he came to the realization that "Camilla is non-negotiable" and that was that.

As far as being married to Camilla and having a living ex-wife, it really is no different of a situation than Camilla having a living ex-husband. As the views on divorce within the Church of England and by society as a rule since the time of Edward VIII has changed, I think the marriage would have gone ahead exactly as it did in 2005.

How Diana would have handled and accepted it all had she lived is something that is pure speculation and we have no way of actually knowing. Too many different variables.

 

[Denville]

Ifrles after the divorce to marry Camilla and make a decent woman of her. I can't believe that ever happened. There was too much animosity Diana held for Camilla.

I quite agree. Im sure that Diana knew he was going to marry Camilla, and that she'd have to accepet it, but she wasn't hapy about it.

I agree that it DID upset her, that Charles was with Camilla, whereas she was still looking for a happy love affair and a marriage and that beautfiul and charming as she was, she was not having much luck in finding one and that at least ONE boyfriend sold their story.
but then, in one sense, it wasn't that odd.. in that she was still really like a girl of 18 or so, meeting men and finding her way through the dating world.. Whereas Charles was settled with Camilla becauase he had done his years of sowing wild oats, having fun and working his way through several women till he found one to marry.
Diana hadn't really done that, and I think that well it is very rare that one finds "the One", on one's first canter out of thte paddock...
It takes time, experience and seeing a lot of people. that's why I can't understand people going on like Diana was a slut because "she had lots of affairs while Charles only had one".
He had only one because he had played the field in his 20s.. Diana was married at 20..
And she did have a lot of baggage. She was a prize, as the ex wife of a Prince.. and rich and beautiful so she was bound to attract a lot of the wrong sort of attention, as well as men who were decent and loved her.
But because she was older than the usual "dating years" age, she was more panicky about finding someone.
She wanted I think to be able to say to Charles and the RF,
"look I've found a nice husband, that Im happy with.. " and then perhaps she would care less that Charles hadn't loved her and that he was settled wth Camilla.
It is understandable, esp if she wanted another child, but her panickiness probalby didn't help in her affairs, when added to her natural intensity, it probaby scared some men off.

 

[Osipi]

It is understandable, esp if she wanted another child, but her panickiness probalby didn't help in her affairs, when added to her natural intensity, it probaby scared some men off.

This, right here, is probably one of the most detrimental effects to come out of the very public War of the Wales epic saga against Diana. Any man would have had to be living under a rock or in a cave to not know at least some of the sordid events and problems that Diana faced during the marriage and have the intelligence of a village idiot to believe it was all to be pinned on Charles.

By the time Diana was seriously looking elsewhere for a loving, solid relationship, too much was already known beforehand what any possible suitor would be facing with a relationship with Diana. At the most, men at least figured that perhaps Diana was good "arm candy" and it gave them their moment in the limelight with one of the most prominent women of that time period.

I am apt though to exclude Hasnat Khan from this as the man definitely had higher priorities elsewhere with his dedication to his profession and has never talked about his time with Diana.

 

[Denville]

This, right here, is probably one of the most detrimental effects to come out of the very public War of the Wales epic saga against Diana. Any man would have had to be living under a rock or in a cave to not know at least some of the sordid events and problems that Diana faced during the marriage and have the intelligence of a village idiot to believe it was all to be pinned on Charles.

By
I am apt though to exclude Hasnat Khan from this as the man definitely had higher priorities elsewhere with his dedication to his profession and has never talked about his time with Diana.

If you are saying that people woudl figure that Diana had some blame in the unhappy marriage, yes of course that is true.
I think at first people did tend to blame C more but gradually began to realise that it was both of them.

Im not sure what you mean by "sordid events".. Charles had an affair, they both did, and they rowed and bitched about each other to their friends and because they had access to the meida, they did it more publicly as well. but that's normal IMO, with a bad marriage.
but lots of people have a bad marriage and then later a better one. People often behave badly in an unhappy marriage because they are very miserable..
and While Hewitt talked, He was the only one. Her other lovers were discreet, Oliver Hoare didn't talk to the media, Will C denied any affair, so did Gilbey. Hasnat Khan only did so when really forced to do so.

Diana did attract admirers who were interested in her largely becuase of her status, but I think she tended to give them very litlte time..
I think the bad thing was that nicer men, who might have been good for her, were frightened off by the media craziness, and the fact that they would be chased and commented on by the Press if they were once seen on a date with her. Teddy Forstman, the american Businessman was I think a bit put off by this.. he was well known in his own right, and was a bit put out to be then seen as Diana's beau -
(not that I think he was a very serous admirer, I think he was fond of her and they had a friendship.). -But it highlights the difficulties that Di faced in finding a nice man. The wrong sort would enjoy the meida attention for their own purposes, the right sort, woudl shy away from it.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I suppose we'll never know how Charles felt about her taking up with the Fayeds during that last summer, but I don't imagine that he was pleased. Mr. al Fayed had a terrible reputation, and Dodi seemed to be a dabbler rather than a career man. I agree that Diana seemed a bit lost after the divorce, although her public work with the landmine issue must have given her great satisfaction.

 

[Dee Anna]

Well, I think by some of what we write, WE have not gotten over the Camilla situation - and we were not even in the relationship.

Funny! But very true!

Although not so much for the people involved.

Only me, but I believe Diana was in love with Charles and stayed in that mindset through out the whole marriage and aftermath, so no, graciously conceeding to Camilla would never have happened.

Charles and Camilla marrying, Charles a divorcee rather than a widower?

I think the theory on that is a whole new thread!

 

[Dman]

Top secret medical records belonging to Charles and Diana found stuffed in cabinet on an industrial estate-
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19389...tuffed-in-10-cabinet-on-an-industrial-estate/

They were delivered back to Clarence House.

 

[Osipi]

There be whales here! Ok.. its a Star Trek quote and in no way referencing the Wales' medical records but that quote is sometimes used such as "Eureka!"

It is most refreshing to know that there are decent people out there and also among the staff of the Sun. They ran with the story and very well could have made whatever was contained in the medical files public knowledge but they had enough respect for personal privacy not to.