Charles and Diana

[Denville]

I thought that Charles did tell Di that he had been in love with Cam, that she was still a good friend but that now, he loived her.(ie Diana). I simply cant beleive she didn't know.. Unless she lived in a cave, didnt' read the gossip columns or talk with anyone in her circle, where there was plenty of gossip about his close relationship with CPB... She must have known that Cam was a past girlfriend..I mean during her courtship, she was staying at Cam's house, Did she think that it was a hotel? She must have known that she was invited there because Cam was Chas' ex and good friend and was willing to host his current girlfriend...

 

[Osipi]

I think Diana pretty much knew the score when meeting Charles' friends and staying at friend's homes for weekend parties etc. Perhaps a more mature person could see and accept a spouse being close friends with someone they once had a romance with and had remained close friends with and not feel threatened by it.

Personally, I believe that a lot of the problems Diana faced in the early years of marriage wasn't so much that her husband had a wandering eye or was wishing he could be with someone else but rather the fear of the possibility that this is what he would do so her solution was elimination. Diana also seems to be, to me, the type of a person that would have demanded her husband put her first in everything regardless of if it was his friends, his royal role or even his staff. She needed to be his top priority and be put on pedestal, admired and his love for her constantly being professed and visibly shown for happily ever after. She felt threatened by his friends, his staff and his position even as Prince of Wales to the point that she tried her hardest to control and manipulate things to how she wanted them to be and eventually that did turn Charles away from her in the long run as more and more, Charles was isolated from his friends, had problems conducting his life as he deemed it should be run and even had staff being fired or quitting because they couldn't work amicably with his wife. Any person in this kind of a situation would have felt smothered and controlled and by yielding to her wishes, would make it not a happy way to live.

Is it really any wonder then that Diana gradually sought the public adoration and publicity she garnered? She was getting from the public what she felt she should have been getting from her husband. It was very easy too from this perspective to eventually overshadow her husband with hoping he'd sit up and take notice of just what he was missing out on and he'd be on his knees at her feet gazing adoringly up at her once again and toe the line she wanted him to.

Real life doesn't work that way.

 

[HistoryGirl]

I think she really did need that encouragement and attention, sad state she must have been in. But really Charles does not seem the type to really be patient with that sort of thing. I understand both sides. Her childhood, I imagine, was not filled with the love and stability that a child needs so she must have yearned for it as an adult. But that clinginess can be highly suffocating to the partner and unfair.

Like TLLK and Osipi said, could have been avoided if they'd really been honest with themselves and spent the time to truly get to know one another. Oh well, what's done is done I suppose. Two good children (and now men) came of the marriage. Unfortunately, a whole lot of hurt and embarrassment did as well.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

When Prince Charles courted Lady Diana, he gave her a book as a Christmas present.

As Diana mastered the art of royal public appearance, she began to upstage her husband. For every new speech he made, she would wear a different hairstyle or hat.

Do you believe that if Prince Charles and Princess Diana had not had a child so early, Diana would have had more time to learn about royal duties?


For their sixth wedding anniversary in 1987 Prince Charles and Princess Diana went their separate ways. Charles was in Cornwall. Diana was in Tidworth.

Would you say that the courtship of Charles and Diana was too brief?

When they were dating, did Prince Charles take Lady Diana to any of the places that she wanted to go to?

 

[Osipi]

When they were on their honeymoon, Charles also brought along some books. He thought they could read them and discuss them. That didn't go over too well I guess.

 

[Denville]

I think she really did need that encouragement and attention, sad state she must have been in. But really Charles does not seem the type to really be patient with that sort of thing. I understand both sides. Her childhood, I imagine, was not filled with the love and stability that a child needs so she must have yearned for it as an adult. But that clinginess can be highly suffocating to the partner and unfair.

Like TLLK and Osipi said, could have been avoided if they'd really been honest with themselves and spent the time to truly get to know one another. Oh well, what's done is done I suppose. Two good children (and now men) came of the marriage. Unfortunately, a whole lot of hurt and embarrassment did as well.

well 2 children came out of it...
sadly, Diana's magic which was so evident in the early years, and which could IMO have been used by the RF, was let go.
I can quite understand that she felt she wanted Charles' undivided attention, but I can understand that he felt restless because he had assumed she was more mature than to want him by her, all the time.. not thinking that she was very young for her age.. and he wasn't IMO the type of man to be that devoted to any one person. I think he was capable of being a reasonably affectionate husband and father, but probably not to the extent that many women would want. I think that even if Di hadn't had a neurotic need for him- other women less neurotic might also have felt that he was too busy with his work and his hobbies to be really there as a husband and father.

I always thought Diana would have been better off with Andrew for that reason and that they seemed a better suited couple overall.

OK Andrew isn't very clever and neither was Diana but I don't believe they had anything in common. or that she would settle for the second son if she could have the first. And I don't believe she was And's type either.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, I think Andrew, who can be a bit boisterous himself, preferred women who were life and soul of the party types. Diana could be quite witty and jokey but I don't believe she ever thought of Andrew as a prospective partner or he her.

 

[Pranter]

Andrew and Fergie were well suited in personality....they just had other issues. Can't imagine Diana meshing with Andrew, too different in a different way.


LaRae

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

I never said my idea was a good one.

 

[Denville]

Yes, I think Andrew, who can be a bit boisterous himself, preferred women who were life and soul of the party types. Diana could be quite witty and jokey but I don't believe she ever thought of Andrew as a prospective partner or he her.

Certanly not his type. I think she did like to join in Fergie's roistering at times but she was only mildly "into that." She liked pranks and silly stuff, but she wasn't as boisterous as Fergie. She was prone to depression and sadness, and not as able to "bounce around" out of it as Sarah was. I think that Andy probalby mildly liked Diana but probably found her too serious.
and I dont believe that Di woudl have fallen in love with Andy if she had a hope of Charles..

I never said my idea was a good one.

but you said she and Andy seemed better suited. Of course she wasn't suited to Chas, but A was TOO much of a heart Hooray Henry. I suspect what she needed was someone who wasn't too clever, shared her interests but wasn't into "makng the world better" (when she was 19 or so).. but had a calm temperament and common sense.. who could be indulgent and affectionate but not let Diana's dramatic emotions get out of hand

 

[Osipi]

Actually, if I'm remembering right, one of Sarah's complaints was that when Andrew was home, all he wanted to do is be a couch potato with the TV and video games on. Seems like the total opposite from Charles who is the type of person that's always doing something and takes walks to relax.

To be honest, I don't think there's any type of man out there that would fit the bill of what Diana wanted and needed other than in fairy tales and romance novels.

 

[Denville]

I think she'd have been happier with one fo the men that She was friendly with, as Ken Wharfe called them "Dianamen" because they were very similar types, in looks and personality. Good looking, not too bright, able to chat brightly, not someone who was always itching to "do something clever", or change the world... I think at 20 or so, that scared her. She didn't understand it and she resented the time that such a man would spend away from her and "heavy discussion" scared her and made her feel her intellectual inferiority.. and lack of education.
But I think as she matured, she DID appreciate Charles's "wanting to do something to help" more, and wanted a husband/boyfriend who had a serious interest like Hasnat Khan. But she did want a lot of attention for herself, I agree. However I think that was partly because she had had many years of a bad marriage, feeling isolated and lonely, and the scars had become part of her personality.. so maybe by her 30s, it was hard to find a man who would suit her, and make her happy without a need for help and therapy to get over some of her issues.
but she was a rich woman, with rich friends so any man she met was likely to be abel to devote a fair bit of time to being with her, to family life etc...

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Andrew and Fergie were well suited in personality....they just had other issues. Can't imagine Diana meshing with Andrew, too different in a different way.


LaRae

I assume Andrew wouldn't have been able to coddle Diana the way she needed and to be constantly praised especially considering he was often at sea.
This is just something I wonder but do you think it says something about Diana that she bypassed Andrew and went right for the higher ranking son despite the fact that she and Andrew were the same age?
Was it rank or more to do that Andrew at 19 or 20 was probably too immature for even Diana?

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Nobody said Diana had to marry at 20

 

[Pranter]

Diana wanted to be loved and feel secure. She thought she was marrying the 'only man in England who can't divorce me' (she is quoted as saying)....Charles represented security, status and how exciting...to be the future Queen....think of all the positive attention (doubt she ever factored in the other side of things).


LaRae

 

[Denville]

Diana wanted to be loved and feel secure. She thought she was marrying the 'only man in England who can't divorce me' (she is quoted as saying)....Ch


LaRae

true, i think that his "not being able to divorce" and being some years older appealed to her because she was afraid of finding love and then losing it. She wanted an older man to look after her..but fi you are goign to marry a royal, I think anyway, you're going ot give up a lot of privacy etc, so you might as well go for the guy in the top job, where teh compensations for the various drawbacks are better. And Im sure even at 19 or 20, she would have found Andrw annoyingly immature...

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

I admit I am wrong and now to your superior wisdom

 

[Denville]

Nobody said Diana had to marry at 20

If she wanted to marry Charles, yes, she needed to be only about 20 or so. If she had been involved wtih Andrew he was only the same age as her so he wasn't likely to be getting married at 20 or so.. by the time he DID get married, it was ok for Sarah to have had previous affairs, because it was the mid 80s...so she and he were the same age.
but I think that Diana wanted to marry early, she had no career plans and wanted to be a wife and mother and to achieve a socially prominent marriage was her only way of "making herself known" to the world...

 

[Denville]

Indeed one of the reasons I always liked Diana was her willingness to tell Charles what he needed to hear not what he wanted to hear

Did she? I think she shouted at him during rows and could be very brutal in what she said, but thats' not "tellling someone what they need to hear", its just bad communication.. yelling in an emotional state usually means you are saying things better left unsaid, or things that are not what you really mean but you say them because you are angry and stressed.

 

[royal rob]

You think she shouted really how do you know this ??


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[WreathOfLaurels]

The shouting was often the result of feeling dismissed and undermined. Charles sometimes started the arguments, usually when his manhood was feeling bruised for one reason or another...

 

[Jacknch]

I'm not quite sure how anyone would know exactly how an argument started or who started it or indeed what such argument would be about other than the couple themselves - all else is hearsay and speculation, which we be avoiding.

 

[Osipi]

Actually there were some really slam banging fights that were pretty loud according to an eyewitness in Charles and Diana's housekeeper, Wendy Berry, in "The Housekeeper's Diary". She was housekeeper at Highgrove until the separation.

I tend to really give this book a lot of credibility as Berry writes with a matter of fact way of stating that's the way it was. No taking sides, no finger pointing but just observations. To add to the credibility, the photos that are included in the book are her own personal ones.

Just as a teaser, there is one incident in the early years that really, really cracks me up. Imagine the Prince and Princess of Wales getting it on very hot and heavy (not fighting!) and Diana hitting the panic button with her foot without realizing it and all of a sudden, have the entire protection force bursting through the door. Whooops!!

 

[Denville]

You think she shouted really how do you know this ??


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certainly there are stories of her yelling at him, in front of guests...and ther'es not a married couple alive who dont yell at each ohter at times...

 

[Osipi]

certainly there are stories of her yelling at him, in front of guests...and ther'es not a married couple alive who dont yell at each ohter at times...

I resemble that remark.

 

[Denville]

Actually there were some really slam banging fights that were pretty loud according to an eyewitness in Charles and Diana's housekeeper, Wendy Berry, in "The Housekeeper's Diary". She was housekeeper at Highgrove until the separation.

I bursting through the door. Whooops!!

I haven't read this book but other reports refer to yelling and rows, of Diana chasing after Charles in her car to continue an argument and her yelling 4 letter words at him in front of guests...I beleive (can't remember where I read it) that even in the early days, an aide told people meeting them that if C and Di started to argue, to just ignore it.
Im sure both were at fault, but I doubt if Charles was the instigator all that often,.I think that like a lot of men, he wanted a quiet life and dreaded a row starting..and if it did, he tried ot scoot away....

 

[Osipi]

I haven't read this book but other reports refer to yelling and rows, of Diana chasing after Charles in her car to continue an argument and her yelling 4 letter words at him in front of guests...I beleive (can't remember where I read it) that even in the early days, an aide told people meeting them that if C and Di started to argue, to just ignore it.
Im sure both were at fault, but I doubt if Charles was the instigator all that often,.I think that like a lot of men, he wanted a quiet life and dreaded a row starting..and if it did, he tried ot scoot away....

From experience, for anyone in the middle of a white hot, flaming fight, for the opposing party to calmly walk away just adds a 10 megaton H-bomb to the mix.

 

[Denville]

That's the impression that I have had of their marriage, in the ealry days, that perhaps charles was not used to people arguing with him.. After all his friends and girlfriends problaby would not do it too much and I dont think that his blood relatives are the shouting type...
But now he had a wife who was on a footing with him and Diana was hot tempered and ready to argue.. and he was a bit taken aback. But that's why I doubt if he was the one to instigate most of hte rows. And I beleive journalists or staff did see Di chasing after him in her car, when they were farily newly married, at somewhere like Balmoral, to continue a row..

 

[royal rob]

I'm not quite sure how anyone would know exactly how an argument started or who started it or indeed what such argument would be about other than the couple themselves - all else is hearsay and speculation, which we be avoiding.

Exactly Jacknch pity people just kept on with the speculation


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[Osipi]

Is it really speculation though when a credible source is given? I think someone living in the same house at the time would be quite credible.