Charles and Diana

[HistoryGirl]

I'm not sure how performing ballet could be considered inappropriate for a future queen. It's not like she was dirty dancing on a street corner.

 

[Lee-Z]

okay, so basically, C&D did a skit together the previous year, and this year Diana did a dance with Wayne Sleep, Charles was surprised and not enthousiastic and now we are all interpreting why and coming up with answers that suit our own opinions, like in that linked article "now we know why, he had Camilla".
But aren't there loads of possible reasons like:
- Charles was jealous because he's not a great dancer himself
- Charles doesn't like surprises, period
- Charles had wanted to do another joint skit and Diana had said she didn't feel like it
- The two had been told off by her majesty the year before and had agreed not to do it again
- etc etc (you can invent loads more)

oh, and that dress is *not* a tutu

 

[Denville]

okay, so basically, C&D did a skit together the previous year, and this year Diana did a dance with Wayne Sleep, Charles was surprised and not enthousiastic and now we are all interpreting why and - etc etc (you can invent loads more)

oh, and that dress is *not* a tutu

I think that it is really just OTT to say that Diana was "cringe worthy etc" and that it was not suitable/vulgar for a future Queen to display her dance talents in public. Why Charles wasn't enthusiastic, we don't really know. The General "interpretation" years ago was that probably he felt it was inappropriate for his wife to do this..but Wayne Sleep who actually was there, thought that there might be another thing behind it, that Charles felt left out, or annoyed that Diana had kept a secret or surprised him with her dance. So maybe htat was the real reason.. If he and She had done a skit together the previous year, then clearly he did accompany her to the ballet at times, and also, clearly he didn't feel that a fun performance at this event was really beneath royal dignity if he was willing to take part in the skit with his wife.

 

[Denville]

A private conversation in which both of these people were married to others and discussing how to fix up the next tryst. Hardly the behaviour of a man whom the country is supposed to look up to as the future Governor of the Church of England.

And behaving in what way? Diana was hardly gyrating about the stage around a pole! She and Wayne Sleep devised a short dance routine in which incidentally the 24 year old Diana appears very graceful. suppose!

I don't know for sure if he was annoyed but Sleep thought he was.. and thougt that he knew why, and as he did actually see Charles, it is possible that he had hit on a more correct interpretation as to why C might have been less than pleased.
But yes for goodness sake, there are lots of things that Royals have done in public that are far more undignified than Diana doing a dance routine of modern dance with W Sleep- (as far as I know she was not "en pointe" though I don't quite know why that would be bad), displaying her talent as a dancer. Its a Knockout was one of them.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I find it kind of inappropriate that the Princess of Wales is dancing on a stage. It was nowhere vulgar at all but she was Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales, she should be guest of honour, watching the soloists and the corps of a ballet as their Lady Protectoress, as their mecaenas. These dancers have given blood, sweat, tears and a lot of blisters to reach that stage. And then a goodwilling amateur is hopping on that stage? It is just gut-feeling: the Princess better should have done it in a more private setting. But of course: opinions on this will differ and good taste is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[royal rob]

Goodness me I can't believe some of the comments if Diana shouldn't have danced maybe Charles shouldn't have played polo. Something he was interested in and did well same as Diana and dancing.

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[Mermaid1962]

This is actually rather sweet (no pun intended) because Diana was singing that at Clarence House while getting ready for her wedding and, I believe, also in the carriages.

At that time Charles had sung a parody of a popular ad of the time 'Just one more Corneto' on stage. But of course, as this is Charles's performance we are supposed to think of it as being supremely dignified, I suppose!

 

[soapstar]

I've edited and deleted posts regarding Charles and Camilla's private phone calls and posts about the Duchess of Cambridge. This thread isn't about those things, so let's get back on-topic. Also, further discussions about Diana's ancestors and their connections to the BRF, should be taken to the Princess Diana Ancestry and Family thread.

 

[royal rob]

If anyone cares to google it there are plenty of photos of Diana dancing in a long dress not a tutu so let's clean up that part of the story once and for all. It all looks very elegant and decent so that's ticked off too. If Charles was put off about it I'd say that's more because of his own problems and not Diana's doing


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[Duc_et_Pair]

It is just a matter of opinions. You have no problem to see The Princess of Wales publicly dancing on a stage. Others maybe say: Heu... ma'am, you better keep it indoors if we may advise you... It is just the expectation one has from a Princess of Wales, a future Queen.

 

[royal rob]

It is just a matter of opinions. You have no problem to see The Princess of Wales publicly dancing on a stage. Others maybe say: Heu... ma'am, you better keep it indoors if we may advise you... It is just the expectation one has from a Princess of Wales, a future Queen.

It was dancing not a striptease or pole dancing. No dancing sounds like a Mormon belief not Church of England. I've seen some lovely video of the Queen dancing. But your right you can believe whatever you want doesn't mean your are right

 

[Denville]

I cant' imagine why anyone would criticise her for dancing, she didn't wear a tutu, she was a very popular turn at the show.... Anyone would think that she had been pole dancing...

 

[Mermaid1962]

People enjoyed seeing Charles and Diana dancing together. Perhaps that was part of the problem. It was Diana dancing with another man, which is an angle that just occurred to me now. Plus, I believe that it was jazz dancing, which can be quite sexy.

I agree with your point about Diana being the Princess of Wales. I don't think that she considered the repercussions of her "gift."

Others maybe say: Heu... ma'am, you better keep it indoors if we may advise you... It is just the expectation one has from a Princess of Wales, a future Queen.

 

[Nico]

There was nothing remotely wrong about this routine : it was cute and lighthearted. The only problem was she was HRH the Princess of wales and she was not supposed to do that. period.
I'm not sure if Charles went ballistic, but i guess he was embarrassed ... for her. Knowing the press and all, to expose yourself like this (even with the best intentions in the world) was maybe not the better move for a woman of her status. It was ok and fun for the 20 young girl Diana, but not, again, for HRH the Princess of Wales.

 

[royal rob]

People enjoyed seeing Charles and Diana dancing together. Perhaps that was part of the problem. It was Diana dancing with another man, which is an angle that just occurred to me now. Plus, I believe that it was jazz dancing, which can be quite sexy.



I agree with your point about Diana being the Princess of Wales. I don't think that she considered the repercussions of her "gift."

Oh no the evil jazz ! Pass the smelling salts


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[TLLK]

It was dancing not a striptease or pole dancing. No dancing sounds like a Mormon belief not Church of England. I've seen some lovely video of the Queen dancing. But your right you can believe whatever you want doesn't mean your are right

Latter Day Saints are allowed to dance by the way. Our neighbor DJs at their youth dances.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I find the dialog interesting. How about placing another personage in the role? Would the same be said had Sarah (Andrew's wife) done the same? How about Catherine (William's wife)? Is there a double standard at work here?

Just wondering if there really was something 'off' regarding Diana taking the lead in this way, but because it's Diana she cannot be faulted. Had Catherine done something like this I have a hunch the roof would have fallen and mention of her 'commoner' background made much of. Am I wrong?

 

[Curryong]

Diana can't be faulted!! Are you kidding me? Have you read some of the posts over the last few years in this and other Diana threads? !!!

Neither Sarah nor Kate love(d) dancing as Diana did. Neither (especially Sarah) are/were particularly graceful, in the way that dancers who have trained in ballet for years and years are. Diana was still taking lessons in her years as Prss of Wales.

I think we're forgetting here what sort of an evening it was. The Friends of Covent Garden let their hair down at these annual events. It was an evening in which, as one person described it, 'singers turn up and dance and dancers sing' It was an evening for people who were supporters, financial and otherwise, of Covent Garden all year round, an opportunity to have fun.

I notice there is no outrage here about a Prince getting up and singing about ice cream, a man who isn't and wasn't a trained singer, or about Charles and Diana doing a Romeo and Juliet skit. Or about Charles in his university days grabbing a woman and running off stage shouting "I must give myself airs/heirs". Sidesplittingly amusing? Dignified? The sort of behaviour expected from a prince of the blood Royal? Double standards, much?

Yet Diana, who had years of ballet and other dance training dances gracefully around the stage for a short time with a male ballet dancer known to both her and Charles, and there a chorus of disapproval on this thread!

The skit was short, it wasn't sexual, she wasn't gyrating around a pole, it was a fun evening and the audience was blown away.

 

[Lee-Z]

By some members of the public and on these forums indeed Diana can't be faulted, and even she did something wrong then that is diverted by P.Charles doing something wronger.

Storm in a teacup imo

but we're going round and round again, so finally there is some use for this emoticon:

 

[Curryong]

And vice-versa, Lee Z, except that Charles's wrongdoings get ignored and not discussed by many on any thread. After all he's Royal, a future king, and alive, so therefore is regarded as sacrosanct by many.

 

[Prisma]

Diana can't be faulted!! Are you kidding me? Have you read some of the posts over the last few years in this and other Diana threads? !!!

Neither Sarah nor Kate love(d) dancing as Diana did. Neither (especially Sarah) are/were particularly graceful, in the way that dancers who have trained in ballet for years and years are. Diana was still taking lessons in her years as Prss of Wales.

I think we're forgetting here what sort of an evening it was. The Friends of Covent Garden let their hair down at these annual events. It was an evening in which, as one person described it, 'singers turn up and dance and dancers sing' It was an evening for people who were supporters, financial and otherwise, of Covent Garden all year round, an opportunity to have fun.

I notice there is no outrage here about a Prince getting up and singing about ice cream, a man who isn't and wasn't a trained singer, or about Charles and Diana doing a Romeo and Juliet skit. Or about Charles in his university days grabbing a woman and running off stage shouting "I must give myself airs/heirs". Sidesplittingly amusing? Dignified? The sort of behaviour expected from a prince of the blood Royal? Double standards, much?

Yet Diana, who had years of ballet and other dance training dances gracefully around the stage for a short time with a male ballet dancer known to both her and Charles, and there a chorus of disapproval on this thread!

The skit was short, it wasn't sexual, she wasn't gyrating around a pole, it was a fun evening and the audience was blown away.

Thank you! I also agree about the double standards. I suppose Charles can dance, perform skits, and such because he has a serious reputation so any "silliness" only shows that he can have fun.

For me, Diana's dance was another example she and Charles didn't understand each other and the breakdown of the marriage (maybe already broken by then). I've forgotten the source but I recall Diana wanted to impress/surprise Charles with the dance performance. Instead, he felt hurt and left out because he and Diana had performed together the previous year.

 

[Lee-Z]

And vice-versa, Lee Z, except that Charles's wrongdoings get ignored and not discussed by many on any thread. After all he's Royal, a future king, and alive, so therefore is regarded as sacrosanct by many.

yes, and vice versa, and everytime someone accuses Diana of something, someone else points to Charles, and then someone else points to Diana etc etc

in other words, you just proved my point

No matter how many voices of reason state that both have their good and bad points, it always turns into fingerpointing by both camps

 

[HistoryGirl]

No matter how many voices of reason state that both have their good and bad points, it always turns into fingerpointing by both camps

Could not agree with this more.

 

[Mermaid1962]

No, you're not.

Just wondering if there really was something 'off' regarding Diana taking the lead in this way, but because it's Diana she cannot be faulted. Had Catherine done something like this I have a hunch the roof would have fallen and mention of her 'commoner' background made much of. Am I wrong?

Charles' "silliness" can indeed be offensive. There's a story that he addressed some school children with the words, "I hope you children are enjoying your childhood as much as we adults are enjoying our adultery." https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=9uYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4524,9174975&hl=en

Then there's the news clip of him taking the cloth off a bust and saying something like "I have much experience unveiling busts."

I'm uncomfortable with Diana's dance with Wayne Sleep, but I'm even more uncomfortable with these quotes from Charles.

Thank you! I also agree about the double standards. I suppose Charles can dance, perform skits, and such because he has a serious reputation so any "silliness" only shows that he can have fun.

For me, Diana's dance was another example she and Charles didn't understand each other and the breakdown of the marriage (maybe already broken by then). I've forgotten the source but I recall Diana wanted to impress/surprise Charles with the dance performance. Instead, he felt hurt and left out because he and Diana had performed together the previous year.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I'm uncomfortable with Diana's dance with Wayne Sleep, but I'm even more uncomfortable with these quotes from Charles.

But aren't such gaffes what make everyone love Prince Philip?

Did Charles really say those things, though? Something doesn't sound right. If he did, he's more a chip off the old man than I ever supposed.

Anyway, did not mean to create such a stir with my question regarding Sarah or Catherine. I was genuinely inquiring if there is a double standard operating. Thank you for your response, Mermaid. I assume from your response, Curryong, there isn't one from your perspective. Okay. Good to know. Just be aware that sometimes someone really is (innocently) asking a question.

From the responses my take-away is there is something unique happening with how Diana's actions are viewed.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There was nothing remotely wrong about this routine : it was cute and lighthearted. The only problem was she was HRH the Princess of wales and she was not supposed to do that. period.
I'm not sure if Charles went ballistic, but i guess he was embarrassed ... for her. Knowing the press and all, to expose yourself like this (even with the best intentions in the world) was maybe not the better move for a woman of her status. It was ok and fun for the 20 young girl Diana, but not, again, for HRH the Princess of Wales.

Your words echo exactly how I feel about it.

[...]

For me, Diana's dance was another example she and Charles didn't understand each other [...].

Maybe she also did not understand her role as The Princess of Wales, the future Queen. It is not her position to change into dancing clothes and perform a duet on a stage. She is no artiste. She is The Princess of Wales! The royal radar seems better working with Catherine. She seems to have the right gut feel what is better not to do in her position.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I saw the video of the bust unveiling either in an archive or in a documentary.

My own view of Diana's actions is that they will be seen more and more objectively as time passes. I wasn't impressed by Diana's dance when it happened, even though I was much in her thrall then otherwise.

It was the Panorama interview that really affected my opinions about Diana and her relationship with Charles and the rest of the BRF. I admit, my views are a bit of a jumble. On the one hand, I'm very nostalgic about those early years and the whole "princess dream". OTOH I can see with clarity the damage that she did later on.

Did Charles really say those things, though? Something doesn't sound right. If he did, he's more a chip off the old man than I ever supposed.



From the responses my take-away is there is something unique happening with how Diana's actions are viewed.

 

[COUNTESS]

They did damage, of sorts. She didn't do it alone. In all marriages it takes two.

 

[Curryong]

Your words echo exactly how I feel about it.



Maybe she also did not understand her role as The Princess of Wales, the future Queen. It is not her position to change into dancing clothes and perform a duet on a stage. She is no artiste. She is The Princess of Wales! The royal radar seems better working with Catherine. She seems to have the right gut feel what is better not to do in her position.

This thread is titled 'Charles and Diana' not 'Diana and how her actions were or were not dignified' though.
Did Charles not understand his Royal role when, on a night of fun, he went on stage dressed as Romeo and sang about ice cream? Is it his position to change into costume and sing? Did he not understand that he was not an artiste not a singer, not an actor, but a Prince, the Prince of Wales? Or is it somehow different for him because he was born Royal and isn't Diana?

 

[COUNTESS]

Oh, what poppycock. Times have changed. Few see the Royal Family as, something out of the ordinary. Just folks who have held this position for generations through myth and swords. But Charles had as much responsibility as Diana, if that superior my was to be upheld. He didn't do it.