Charles and Diana

[Dman]

My take on what happened is that in 1989, William was at school and Harry was in pre-school. They were becoming more independent. Although small children and babies need a lot of attention, they also give a lot of attention, which is why some women have such a need to keep having babies.

Diana wanted another child but knew it would be very problematic to have a child by a man other than Charles. (I doubt if she was too concerned about being beheaded for treason). She admits that she told Charles she wanted to reconcile by offering to have another baby.

Charles, wisely, declined. Diana decided that if Camilla dropped him, she and Charles would be able to resume their marriage, which is what led to the confrontation.

Regardless of when you think the various affairs began, by 1989, the problem wasn't really Camilla. It was clear to Charles that he and Diana had nothing in common and neither of them were emotionally suited for each other. Moreover, I doubt that Diana would have ever truly forgiven Charles for his affair and it would have continued to be a source of friction in the marriage.

Diana was very hurt by the rebuff and escalated her hysterics, which aliened Charles even more, and the marriage entered into a death spiral. She became very vindictive and really beefed up her campaign in the media, culminating in the Morton book, which completely finished the marriage.

If Diana really had wanted to save her marriage in 1989 she should have tried making a commitment to Charles to try and cultivate shared interests and offering to see a true mental health professional to help them both work through their issues.

We don't know how Charles would have responded. I tend to think that he felt the marriage was over and didn't think it could be saved. Some will blame him for that but by that time, there had been several affairs and a lot of unhappiness. Sometimes it is just better to let things go.

The problem is that they didn't divorce or separate at that time. It wasn't just the royal family, Diana didn't want a divorce at that time. It left Diana in an untenable situation, trapped in an unhappy marriage and wanting to have more children.

Yes, they both wanted another child. I remember hearing they wanted a daughter, but their marriage was going down hill and it didn't happen.

I think it was Harry who mentioned that Catherine is the daughter Diana would've wanted or something along those lines.

 

[Mirabel]

I may be wrong, but I've always felt that Diana regretted the divorce.
I've read it was the Queen who finally said Enough! And told them to divorce and be done with it.
But I don't think Diana expected that, and I think she did come to regret it in later years.

(I still think Lacey was correct when he claimed he could see her spiraling down after the divorce).

 

[Dman]

I may be wrong, but I've always felt that Diana regretted the divorce.
I've read it was the Queen who finally said Enough! And told them to divorce and be done with it.
But I don't think Diana expected that, and I think she did come to regret it in later years.

(I still think Lacey was correct when he claimed he could see her spiraling down after the divorce).

You are correct, Diana did not want to get a divorce. She made that pretty clear, but she and Charles knew there had to be some clarity in their situation. It couldn't continue on like it was forever.

 

[muriel]

I may be wrong, but I've always felt that Diana regretted the divorce.
I've read it was the Queen who finally said Enough! And told them to divorce and be done with it.
But I don't think Diana expected that, and I think she did come to regret it in later years.

(I still think Lacey was correct when he claimed he could see her spiraling down after the divorce).

You are correct, Diana did not want to get a divorce. She made that pretty clear, but she and Charles knew there had to be some clarity in their situation. It couldn't continue on like it was forever.

I am glad they divorced when they did. The separation had gone on too long, and nobody was benefitting. I just wish they had divorced shortly after the separation was announced.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, I agree. She had tremendous energy but not enough things to focus it on. She did good work with the Red Cross landmines campaign, and I think that was her one real achievement after her divorce--to draw attention to that problem. However, there also seemed to be a lot of too-ing and fro-ing and much talk of various treatments and therapies. Her life in that last year seemed to be sped-up and frantic, at least to what I can remember of that period. By the time of her last vacation with Dodi, the young woman I had admired had slipped away.

(I still think Lacey was correct when he claimed he could see her spiraling down after the divorce).

 

[Dman]

Yes, I agree. She had tremendous energy but not enough things to focus it on. She did good work with the Red Cross landmines campaign, and I think that was her one real achievement after her divorce--to draw attention to that problem. However, there also seemed to be a lot of too-ing and fro-ing and much talk of various treatments and therapies. Her life in that last year seemed to be sped-up and frantic, at least to what I can remember of that period. By the time of her last vacation with Dodi, the young woman I had admired had slipped away.

I think Diana was in the process of changing her life and moving on to bigger and better things before she died. She was about to embark on an aids campaign with President's Clinton and Mandela. She accepted Charles's invitation to go with him on a tour around the isles on the Royal Yacht Britannia, before it was due to be decommissioned. I think she was going to tackle many more charitable causes. Sadly, she accepted a vacation invitation that took everything away from her, and forever changed the lives of her children and families.

 

[teeyah]

Prince Charles wailed 'I can't go through with it' on eve of marriage to Princess Diana, biography claims - Telegraph

Catherine Mayer's book Charles: Heart of a King says both Prince Charles and Princess Diana contemplated calling off their wedding - but for different reasons

 

[Roslyn]

Prince Charles wailed 'I can't go through with it' on eve of marriage to Princess Diana, biography claims - Telegraph

Catherine Mayer's book Charles: Heart of a King says both Prince Charles and Princess Diana contemplated calling off their wedding - but for different reasons

Such a tragedy that they both felt that way but neither had the confidence and courage to call it off. The pressures on them were enormous from the moment they were first spotted together.

 

[Dman]

Such a tragedy that they both felt that way but neither had the confidence and courage to call it off. The pressures on them were enormous from the moment they were first spotted together.

They did go on to love each other though, and brought two children into this world, of which they adored.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I knew Lady Sarah and Lady Jane had told Lady Diana about her face on the tea towels.
To now learn that the Prince of Wales did not want to go through with the wedding is unfathomable.
Was Diana not the perfect wife-to-be?
​

 

[Roslyn]

They did go on to love each other though, and brought two children into this world, of which they adored.

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone here but humans beings can copulate without loving each other, and each of them can love the children their union produces regardless of how they feel about the other parent.

If Charles and Diana had not married, I am fairly sure each of them would have married other people and had children with those people and would have loved those children. And Charles and his alternative universe wife could have been, and remained, happy as clams, and so could Diana and her alternativee universe husband, which would have been a far better outcome than that which in fact unfolded.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I knew Lady Sarah and Lady Jane had told Lady Diana about her face on the tea towels.
To now learn that the Prince of Wales did not want to go through with the wedding is unfathomable.
Was Diana not the perfect wife-to-be?
​

CyrilVladisla, you must get out more! Or start reading. This is a story you can't pass up reading about. Hands down, better than a marathon viewing of the Walking Dead, and that's going some.

In fairness to Charles, he was dealing with a 'gentleman's code of conduct' at that point, but he had a good friend who did counsel him that Diana was not 'the one' to be his consort. Would that he had listened. But he didn't.

In all I've read Diana never had second thoughts, even when her mother pressed her to undo the engagement. (In fact, my mother used Diana as a cautionary tale with me, which somewhat back-fired, as these things sometimes do. Which should make Diana not listening to her mother all the more understandable for me).

When you start reading, brace yourself for the justifications for Diana's behavior, all about her being 'so young'. I am not sure I understand how someone her age could be so clueless. The conclusion is unavoidable, she wasn't. But for some reason the general public back then saw her otherwise. I have my hunches why.

Anyway, Diana was a very different person after the engagement was announced than she was before. There are innumerable books that detail what took place. It's my opinion that the Queen should have stepped in when it was seen what was happening. The Queen and her advisors could have spun the proper PR to undo the engagement. But it didn't happen. Read the books. Amazing story.

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone here but humans beings can copulate without loving each other, and each of them can love the children their union produces regardless of how they feel about the other parent.

Are you sure?

If Charles and Diana had not married, I am fairly sure each of them would have married other people and had children with those people and would have loved those children. And Charles and his alternative universe wife could have been, and remained, happy as clams, and so could Diana and her alternativee universe husband, which would have been a far better outcome than that which in fact unfolded.

This sounds like a fascinating thread idea. Anyone up for it? Who would Charles have married?

 

[royal rob]

CyrilVladisla, you must get out more! Or start reading. This is a story you can't pass up reading about. Hands down, better than a marathon viewing of the Walking Dead, and that's going some.



In fairness to Charles, he was dealing with a 'gentleman's code of conduct' at that point, but he had a good friend who did counsel him that Diana was not 'the one' to be his consort. Would that he had listened. But he didn't.



In all I've read Diana never had second thoughts, even when her mother pressed her to undo the engagement. (In fact, my mother used Diana as a cautionary tale with me, which somewhat back-fired, as these things sometimes do. Which should make Diana not listening to her mother all the more understandable for me).



When you start reading, brace yourself for the justifications for Diana's behavior, all about her being 'so young'. I am not sure I understand how someone her age could be so clueless. The conclusion is unavoidable, she wasn't. But for some reason the general public back then saw her otherwise. I have my hunches why.



Anyway, Diana was a very different person after the engagement was announced than she was before. There are innumerable books that detail what took place. It's my opinion that the Queen should have stepped in when it was seen what was happening. The Queen and her advisors could have spun the proper PR to undo the engagement. But it didn't happen. Read the books. Amazing story.

Well that's one version there's lots of books out there


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[COUNTESS]

Charles loved Camilla and to that end, unless someone with the same motherly and kind love she gave him, came along, it would have been the same. To whomever said how could Diana been that clueless, at 19 you know nothing, I know that, because it was the age of my first marriage. It last 28 years until my husband died, because he dedicated his first years of our marriage to helping me grow up. He was 27. Charles needed a mother and someone who would fill his need for his ego. Diana became more important, publicly, than he. He could never have dealt with that.

 

[royal rob]

Charles loved Camilla and to that end, unless someone with the same motherly and kind love she gave him, came along, it would have been the same. To whomever said how could Diana been that clueless, at 19 you know nothing, I know that, because it was the age of my first marriage. It last 28 years until my husband died, because he dedicated his first years of our marriage to helping me grow up. He was 27. Charles needed a mother and someone who would fill his need for his ego. Diana became more important, publicly, than he. He could never have dealt with that.

Totally agree ?


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[Lady Nimue]

Charles loved Camilla and to that end, unless someone with the same motherly and kind love she gave him, came along, it would have been the same.

He loved 'Whiplash' Wallace according to what I've read. Quite a firecracker. She broke his heart. Camilla was definitely around as a friend, but there is no evidence that he was loving Camilla in the way you suggest.

To whomever said how could Diana been that clueless, at 19 you know nothing.

I knew enough. I'm only going by me. And from what I've read Diana was pretty savvy, too, and quite deliberate in how she went about things with Charles. Even I was never that calculating.

Charles needed a mother and someone who would fill his need for his ego. Diana became more important, publicly, than he. He could never have dealt with that.

Ouch! You know Charles that well, Countess? Sorry for being sardonic, it just seems that 'knowing' that kind of thing about anyone, most of all a celebrity-type person, is assuming a lot. Reality is always a surprise. Truly.

Whether Diana was 'more important' publicly we could debate. Charles was the heir to the throne. He was unambiguously more important than Diana. Might it have been that it was Diana who could not handle that? She was always beholden to Charles for her status. Even her position as the mother of a future king was due to Charles. Must have annoyed her. When I look at pictures and videos of her in public I see someone who really wanted the spotlight at any price. It's so obvious.

As for what Charles dealt with, I think Diana courting the cameras and publicity the way she did was enough for any man to deal with, and deal he did, as he had to. As far as I know, Charles was always the gentleman. Just imagine if Catherine behaved the way Diana did with the cameras, she'd be roasted alive, in more ways than one.

 

[royal rob]

The RF loved Diana at first threw her in deep end and then didn't like it when the crowds loved her more than Charles. She was very young much too young to be in the position she was put in. I lived though those times I remember when she was pregnant with Will and throwing up behind stage but had to carry on. The family wouldn't let her have time off dress her up and push her out there. Disgraceful treatment. I know I will have everyone telling me I'm wrong and she was this and that but that's not the way I see it and I was around in those times


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And what did Diana do with the cameras ????? Smile talk to people and young children exactly like Kate does now


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This comment is one of the weirdest I have seen here

As for what Charles dealt with, I think Diana courting the cameras and publicity the way she did was enough for any man to deal with, and deal he did, as he had to. As far as I know, Charles was always the gentleman. Just imagine if Catherine behaved the way Diana did with the cameras, she'd be roasted alive, in more ways than one.


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[Dman]

Why turn this around to a Charles vs Diana thing?

They both had second thoughts before their marriage. None of this is new and the info from this new book is pretty much old. Yes, they were pressured in many ways, but they did love each other, had two children and enjoyed several years of happiness. When Charles bought Highgrove, he wanted to change the landscaping. He wanted to design little 'C&D' initials in the grass. They were very playful with each other and they laughed a lot. They shared some happy times and I think it's very unfair to make it seem like there was no love between them.

Diana was a very young lady when she married Charles, and was unsure of herself for a couple of years. After many years of being wife, mother and Princess of Wales, she grew in confidence and that showed in the media. Yes, the cameras loved Diana and she always tried to put her best foot forward. There is a glamorous side to being royal and Diana did her thing. You see a lot of the royal ladies of today loving the glamorous side of their job...it wasn't just Diana's thing. It takes a strong and self-confident man to have a beautiful woman by his side and not resent the interest in her. That wasn't Charles, but I see a lot of self confidence in the young Kings and Princes of today.

 

[Lady Nimue]

The RF loved Diana at first threw her in deep end and then didn't like it when the crowds loved her more than Charles. She was very young much too young to be in the position she was put in. I lived though those times I remember when she was pregnant with Will and throwing up behind stage but had to carry on. The family wouldn't let her have time off dress her up and push her out there. Disgraceful treatment. I know I will have everyone telling me I'm wrong and she was this and that but that's not the way I see it and I was around in those times.

Rather than parse this, I will only say that there is no evidence for any of this. None. Not in any of the reading I have done, though my reading has not been exhaustive, I admit. My mother was certainly around, and once I started reading she did give me some perspectives on the situation.

I just read on this site that Diana did not do a lot of events early in her marriage, so I'm not sure what you're referring to, as it seems the BRF was very accommodating to Diana's needs. The BRF gave her free rein. She never did anything she didn't want to do. She very much wanted to do the public events. I'd say she lived for them, in fact. She had that in her, as some people do. I am around a lot of people like that. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way she was.

Anyway, I am clued in enough to know that discussing Diana is potentially a risky affair. I'm not here to upset you, nor anyone. I'm certainly not here to hate someone I never knew, and criticism can sometimes feel like animus. In my case, it isn't. Diana was just a complicated person. So saying, I bow out.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

At nineteen I was bookish, shy, a virgin, and so painfully naïve and unworldly that I almost weep now to remember it. I had no clue on Earth what it meant to make a marriage work between a man and a woman, in fact I'd never even thought about it much. I went around with stars in my eyes confidently expecting that some day a dashing stranger would sweep me off my feet in a passionate kiss, we'd marry in a dreamy white wedding and my life would really truly begin.

Except for the bookish part, does any of the above ring familiar with a certain Lady Diana Frances Spencer?

Lord and (former) Lady Spencer should have put aside the heady idea that their teenage daughter was going to marry the heir to the Throne. They should have done everything in their power to dissuade not only Diana but Charles as well.

 

[Dman]

At nineteen I was bookish, shy, a virgin, and so painfully naïve and unworldly that I almost weep now to remember it. I had no clue on Earth what it meant to make a marriage work between a man and a woman, in fact I'd never even thought about it much. I went around with stars in my eyes confidently expecting that some day a dashing stranger would sweep me off my feet in a passionate kiss, we'd marry in a dreamy white wedding and my life would really truly begin.

Except for the bookish part, does any of the above ring familiar with a certain Lady Diana Frances Spencer?

Lord and (former) Lady Spencer should have put aside the heady idea that their teenage daughter was going to marry the heir to the Throne. They should have done everything in their power to dissuade not only Diana but Charles as well.

I think Charles and Diana's parents let them down in many ways.

 

[royal rob]

Rather than parse this, I will only say that there is no evidence for any of this. None. Not in any of the reading I have done, though my reading has not been exhaustive, I admit. My mother was certainly around, and once I started reading she did give me some perspectives on the situation.



I just read on this site that Diana did not do a lot of events early in her marriage, so I'm not sure what you're referring to, as it seems the BRF was very accommodating to Diana's needs. The BRF gave her free rein. She never did anything she didn't want to do. She very much wanted to do the public events. I'd say she lived for them, in fact. She had that in her, as some people do. I am around a lot of people like that. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way she was.



Anyway, I am clued in enough to know that discussing Diana is potentially a risky affair. I'm not here to upset you, nor anyone. I'm certainly not here to hate someone I never knew, and criticism can sometimes feel like animus. In my case, it isn't. Diana was just a complicated person. So saying, I bow out.

Well I can tell you she did a lot from the word go every second night there would be on the TV news she was in Wales speaking a few words of welsh making speeches at an engagement she was at opening of parliament where there's a famous photo of her falling asleep when she was pregnant with Will etc etc etc I remember it well believe me

I don't where you are getting your information but I can tell you your wrong
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I think Charles and Diana's parents let them down in many ways.

They were worried about Charles not settling down and his married lady friends !! There would be pages in the woman's mag headlines when will he marry he said at one stage he hoped to be married at 28 when that come and went they was lots of oh dear headlines.
His wife had to be a virgin and from the right family enter his and her grandmothers


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[Lady Nimue]

After I posted, I saw your post and wanted to comment on one of your observations.

There is a glamorous side to being royal and Diana did her thing. You see a lot of the royal ladies of today loving the glamorous side of their job...it wasn't just Diana's thing. It takes a strong and self-confident man to have a beautiful woman by his side and not resent the interest in her. That wasn't Charles, but I see a lot of self confidence in the young Kings and Princes of today.

Absolutely agree about glamour not being just Diana's thing. Of course not. I love the glamour. Love going out myself all decked out on the rare occasions we do so. (Though I would never survive a royal life being 'on' all the time in public. Grueling imo).

If you notice, every king with his queen by his side actually has her 'by his side'. I think of Letizia who is always in a deferential posture towards her husband in public. She never separates herself from him, or lures the attention to herself. I think we can say the same for every other consort.

One cannot say that about Diana. The evidence is there on YouTube. Countless videos showing the amazing putting forward of herself as separate from Charles. It's painful to watch. In fact, I think if any of the current crop of queens and crown princesses did anything approaching what Diana did back then, they'd find themselves divorced. I truly do. No man would put up with it, but Charles did.

So when it comes to self-confidence, I think it has everything to do with how one's spouse is presenting themself when with one. I've watched interviews with both Charles and Diana and been appalled at Diana's manner and words. I can't imagine any other crown prince or king putting up with such flagrant immaturity/nastiness from their spouse in public. That it was allowed is what puzzles me.

And now I really will bow out. Some things seem to be better left alone.

 

[Dman]

They were worried about Charles not settling down and his married lady friends !! There would be pages in the woman's mag headlines when will he marry he said at one stage he hoped to be married at 28 when that come and went they was lots of oh dear headlines.
His wife had to be a virgin and from the right family enter his and her grandmothers


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I happen to think it was destiny. Their parents should have prepared them, but I think fate played it's part. Charles and Diana were meant to be in each other lives for a season. Some things just don't last forever.

 

[royal rob]

After I posted, I saw your post and wanted to comment on one of your observations.







Absolutely agree about glamour not being just Diana's thing. Of core not. I love the glamour. Love going out myself all decked out on the rare occasions we do so. (Though I would never survive a royal life being 'on' all the time in public. Grueling imo).



If you notice, every king with his queen by his side actually has her 'by his side'. I think of Letizia who is always in a deferential posture towards her husband in public. She never separates herself from him, or lures the attention to herself. I think we can say the same for every other consort.



One cannot say that about Diana. The evidence is there on YouTube. Countless videos showing the amazing putting forward of herself as separate from Charles. It's painful to watch. In fact, I think if any of the current crop of queens and crown princesses did anything approaching what Diana did back then, they'd find themselves divorced. I truly do. No man would put up with it, but Charles did.



So when it comes to self-confidence, I think it has everything to do with how one's spouse is presenting themself when with one. I've watched interviews with both Charles and Diana and been appalled at Diana's manner and words. I can't imagine any other crown prince or king putting up with such flagrant nastiness from their spouse in public. That it was allowed is what puzzles me.



And now I really will bow out. Some things seem to be better left alone.

Diana's words !!!well you really have confused I haven't a clue what your referring too when the marriage was over yes But not in the early days I can tell you


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[Moonmaiden23]

Dman I've thought about it a lot in the years since Diana's death. Tragic as it turned out, I agree with you.

 

[royal rob]

Image from http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2011/specials/diana/iconic/princess-diana-5-435.jpg.


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Image from http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/517x/695.jpg.


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[Queen Camilla]

He loved 'Whiplash' Wallace according to what I've read. Quite a firecracker. She broke his heart.

I agree he was in love with Anna Wallace and he married Diana on the rebound. Diana somewhat resembled Anna and both had the same hair cut.

 

[Dman]

After I posted, I saw your post and wanted to comment on one of your observations.



Absolutely agree about glamour not being just Diana's thing. Of course not. I love the glamour. Love going out myself all decked out on the rare occasions we do so. (Though I would never survive a royal life being 'on' all the time in public. Grueling imo).

If you notice, every king with his queen by his side actually has her 'by his side'. I think of Letizia who is always in a deferential posture towards her husband in public. She never separates herself from him, or lures the attention to herself. I think we can say the same for every other consort.

One cannot say that about Diana. The evidence is there on YouTube. Countless videos showing the amazing putting forward of herself as separate from Charles. It's painful to watch. In fact, I think if any of the current crop of queens and crown princesses did anything approaching what Diana did back then, they'd find themselves divorced. I truly do. No man would put up with it, but Charles did.

So when it comes to self-confidence, I think it has everything to do with how one's spouse is presenting themself when with one. I've watched interviews with both Charles and Diana and been appalled at Diana's manner and words. I can't imagine any other crown prince or king putting up with such flagrant nastiness from their spouse in public. That it was allowed is what puzzles me.

And now I really will bow out. Some things seem to be better left alone.

Diana did stick at Charles's side for a longtime, and she even said that she loved their joint engagements. I think the problem was that the media thought Charles was a bit of a stiff and Diana was young and fresh. If you look back at some of their pictures and videos, you could see the difference between them.

I really don't think purposely drew attention away from Charles, the cameras was drawn to her. If she moved her head, the cameras went nuts. That wasn't her fault, it was the medias doing.

The media is crazy about today's young Queen's and Princesses. Very little attention is paid to the husbands. It take strong, self-confident and fulfilled men to deal with the level of attention that's paid to their "fine ***" wives.

Dman I've thought about it a lot in the years since Diana's death. Tragic as it turned out, I agree with you.

Yeah, that's just the way I see it. Tragic in the end, but it was already written so it had to come to pass.

 

[royal rob]

If anyone is interested in whiplash Wallace
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...036/Prince-Charles-and-his-relationships.html


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