Charles and Diana

[Osipi]

Perhaps, and this is me just surmising on things, that after the short courtship where Charles basically went about the business that was his life, during the their times together, Diana put her best foot forward and was the perfect, agreeable lady comfortable to be with Charles. They enjoyed their times together immensely if I'm remembering right and from those times, Charles came to believe that he could be happy with Diana by his side.

Perhaps Diana thought that once married, things would change and Charles would magically turn into the doting, forever in love adoring husband always and forever putting Diana first. What happened is that, like during the courtship and the engagement, Charles tended to business first and foremost. He most likely thought that Diana would be complacent when it came to the long hours he spent fulfilling his role as Prince of Wales and building his charitable projects. In other words, life was the same after the marriage as it was before the marriage when it came to Charles' day.

When Charles did have his down time, it turns out that Diana didn't particularly relish him spending it the way he liked to all the time. The country was boring. His books didn't interest her at all. She wasn't keen on his past times and his friends. She didn't really fit into that mold. The incompatibility stood out like a sore thumb. She felt left out, second rate and that was not her idea of a loving marriage at all and the fairy tale image shattered into a million pieces.

I do think they both tried and they did find that parenting was something they totally and completely agreed on but their level of intimacy as partners in a marriage never flourished and they found themselves drifting further apart than they were growing together.

As for the interview and the "love" question. There are so many different definitions of what love means that it could be a subject of discussion until the cows come home. As Denville stated, love means different things to different people. For some, love may mean total devotion and adoration and for another it could be a hot cup of tea after a very long day. Charles and Diana's only area where their love was on the same page, to me, was their love for their sons and their goals in raising them. In that area, they can't be faulted and those boys have the best of both parents in their character makeup today.

 

[Denville]

I may not have put it well, Denville. I was not referring to anything in your post when I mentioned "thinking either personally or collectively". I understand that unless we know people personally, there is little more we CAN do, than "think", but I was actually referring to the possibility that the RF and Charles only THOUGHT, individually and collectively, that Diana was au fait with what being a royal wife entailed, ie assumed rather than checked it out with her.

sorry I misinterpreted... I agree that yes, Charles and the RF IMO pretty definitely DID believe that Diana knew the ropes.. and didn't need to be advised on the pitfals of Royal life.. but I think they found out gradually that she wasn't as well versed as they believed. But I'd assume they thought that since her Grandmother was the QM's lady in wating, her father had been a courtier, etc, she was bound to know the basics...
I think that was one reason the queen intervened to ask the Press to back off, because she realised by then that Diana hadn't been that well versed, and that she was having a very hard time adjusting to royal life.. and to a press attention that was greater than for most royal brides...

 

[Denville]

PeP
When Charles did have his down time, it turns out that Diana didn't particularly relish him spending it the way he liked to all the time. The country was boring. His books didn't interest her at all. She wasn't keen on his past times and his friends. She didn't really fit into that mold. The incompatibility stood out like a sore thumb. She felt left out, second rate and that was not her idea of a loving marriage at all and the fairy tale image shattered into a million pieces.

Icharacter makeup today.

I think that's true, that it was once they were married and spending a lot of time having "free time" on the honeymoon that Diana woke up from her dream.
SHe realised that Charles wasn't going to be sititng holding her hand and talking lightly about love all the time.. that his hobbies were boring her now, whereas before she had hypnotised herself on their weekend visits, into thinking she was enjoying them. She realised that he was not that fascinating to talk to, when he was holding forth about things she didn't understand or take any interest in...
And the RF was the same.. on occasional visits they had some glamour for her, but now she was seeing them up close and again found them over formal and pretty boring, yapping on about sport all the time..

She was scared of putting a foot wrong, at Balmoral but she was bored and unhappy, and she began to get really depressed and her bulimia caused mood swings and erratic behaviour..
In Charles' defence, I think he coudlnt quite understand how she had become so moody, difficult and weepy after being sweet and apparently happy with his company before... and he hoped it was just her pregnancy that was making her moody unwell and unhappy... but of course there was more to it...

 

[Osipi]

There's truth to the saying that one never really knows another person until they've lived day to day with each other and witnessed every single mood, idiosyncrasies, and dragon breath in the morning with bed head.

Happily ever after is a fairy tale. Reality hits below the belt sometimes.

 

[Denville]

I think there was more to the failaure of the marriage than the relationship between the 2 of them.. in that Diana also found that she was uncomfortable with the RF as a whole.. Nowadays, I think the queen is more flexible her family's routines.. She does not expect them all to trurn up for Xmas, or shooting..and for the men and women who are married into the RF to leave their familes behind.. but back then, there was a bit of a 3 line whip that they were expected to turn up for Xmas, the Shootitng Season etc to stay with her and Diana found it stressful...

 

[Tsaritsa]

Perhaps, and this is me just surmising on things, that after the short courtship where Charles basically went about the business that was his life, during the their times together, Diana put her best foot forward and was the perfect, agreeable lady comfortable to be with Charles. They enjoyed their times together immensely if I'm remembering right and from those times, Charles came to believe that he could be happy with Diana by his side.

Perhaps Diana thought that once married, things would change and Charles would magically turn into the doting, forever in love adoring husband always and forever putting Diana first. What happened is that, like during the courtship and the engagement, Charles tended to business first and foremost. He most likely thought that Diana would be complacent when it came to the long hours he spent fulfilling his role as Prince of Wales and building his charitable projects. In other words, life was the same after the marriage as it was before the marriage when it came to Charles' day.

When Charles did have his down time, it turns out that Diana didn't particularly relish him spending it the way he liked to all the time. The country was boring. His books didn't interest her at all. She wasn't keen on his past times and his friends. She didn't really fit into that mold. The incompatibility stood out like a sore thumb. She felt left out, second rate and that was not her idea of a loving marriage at all and the fairy tale image shattered into a million pieces.

I do think they both tried and they did find that parenting was something they totally and completely agreed on but their level of intimacy as partners in a marriage never flourished and they found themselves drifting further apart than they were growing together.

As for the interview and the "love" question. There are so many different definitions of what love means that it could be a subject of discussion until the cows come home. As Denville stated, love means different things to different people. For some, love may mean total devotion and adoration and for another it could be a hot cup of tea after a very long day. Charles and Diana's only area where their love was on the same page, to me, was their love for their sons and their goals in raising them. In that area, they can't be faulted and those boys have the best of both parents in their character makeup today.

A very well put and insightful post, Osipi.

 

[Tsaritsa]

I think that's true, that it was once they were married and spending a lot of time having "free time" on the honeymoon that Diana woke up from her dream.
SHe realised that Charles wasn't going to be sititng holding her hand and talking lightly about love all the time.. that his hobbies were boring her now, whereas before she had hypnotised herself on their weekend visits, into thinking she was enjoying them. She realised that he was not that fascinating to talk to, when he was holding forth about things she didn't understand or take any interest in...
And the RF was the same.. on occasional visits they had some glamour for her, but now she was seeing them up close and again found them over formal and pretty boring, yapping on about sport all the time..

She was scared of putting a foot wrong, at Balmoral but she was bored and unhappy, and she began to get really depressed and her bulimia caused mood swings and erratic behaviour..
In Charles' defence, I think he coudlnt quite understand how she had become so moody, difficult and weepy after being sweet and apparently happy with his company before... and he hoped it was just her pregnancy that was making her moody unwell and unhappy... but of course there was more to it...

Ha! I hate bringing personal 'stuff' into it but you've said it EXACTLY as it was for some of us, Denville. I went into a marriage -about which I had doubts which turned out to be justified- thinking that everything was going to be different from how it was pre-marriage and it would all be wonderful and we'd live happily ever after. Well, Shock! Horror!! It wasn't, it wasn't, and we didn't. What I DID learn was that whilst I could have walked away pre-marriage, it became far more difficult post marriage.

 

[Denville]

It was harldy the same for Charles and Diana as for most people, since unless they had religious objections or issues like very straitened finances, it would be possible for most ordinary people n the west to leave an unhappy marriage.. However it wasn't that way for C and Diana, neither of them could just walk out, boht knew that before they married. In fact once they were engaged officially it was pretty much impossible for them to get out of the engagmenent...

 

[Elan]

.......I still think there may have been a -stilted? affirming?- "Yes" at the end of the interview.

Agree. Who has not had moments reminiscent of an 'elevator' shaft at a time when something we never expect to hear, suddenly sails out of the blue yonder. A giggle can work effectively to camouflage a small panic attack.

 

[Osipi]

At the time that Diana met Charles (the onset of their courtship), I don't think Diana felt lonely at all. She had other things going on in her life. She was working as a teacher's assistant at a kindergarten, she lived with roommates that were close friends and continued to have a social life with them.

I would even bet my last muffin that she didn't actually spend enough time with Charles to actually feel a sense of loneliness when he wasn't around or he was busy. They didn't really spend that much time together at all before they became engaged to be married.

 

[Pranter]

I think I read they saw each other 13 times before they became engaged. They really didn't know each other past the surface.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

I think I read they saw each other 13 times before they became engaged. They really didn't know each other past the surface.


LaRae

I agree that they didn't know each other tat well but I think this thing that they only met 12 or 13 times is not the case. They spent weekends together, they had evening dates in London, Di visited Balmoral. There was more im sure than a handful of dinner dates....

 

[Denville]

How lonely do you think Lady Diana felt when she first became acquainted with Prince Charles?

Why would she feel lonely? DO you mean she felt lonely because of Charles not being the most attentive boyfriend or that she was lonely at the time they began their courtship....

 

[Tsaritsa]

How lonely do you think Lady Diana felt when she first became acquainted with Prince Charles?

In that first flush of new and exciting romance, probably. not at all. I imagine even the press interest -later to become intrusion- was exciting to a girl whose previous claims to fame had probably been her birth announcement in the Times/Telegraph, or an occasional entry in The Tatler. I think the loneliness may have started when she found herself alone in her room at Buckingham Palace and the realization hit her that giggling about this moment with her flat mates was very different from the reality.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If she felt lonely why not break up and find someone who didn't make her feel that way?

Either she didn't feel lonely or she was so determined to be his wife that she didn't care that he wasn't attentive.

 

[Mermaid1962]

At that point, I think that she just wanted the interview over with. That's my reading of the curt "yes" and her general demeanor. She was taken aback by what Prince Charles said. That can be seen a few seconds after he said it.

No waffle. I think both are appropriate................I still think there may have been a -stilted? affirming?- "Yes" at the end of the interview.

 

[Lady Nimue]

How lonely do you think Diana felt when she was the Princess of Wales?

She appears to have lived a very vivid life as the Princess of Wales.

 

[Osipi]

How lonely do you think Diana felt when she was the Princess of Wales?

From what I've read, Diana never seemed to be comfortable in her own skin when she was left to her own devices. Its been stated in many places that Diana always seemed to be glued to her phone or had ear buds playing music from her walkman or even went in search of staff to talk to.

There is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely. I do believe that Diana was searching for an all encompassing love that surrounded her and that was something that she never found. She was very much a people person more so than she was a introverted soul that preferred to be alone. Perhaps thats a reason why she never could understand Charles and his need to be alone in his own world sometimes painting or hiking or fishing and in general, seeking solitude. In that respect, Charles and Diana were two totally opposite kind of people.

When two people share a life together and have little to nothing in common, there's little they enjoy together and that, in and of itself, can create loneliness and longing for something different.

 

[Denville]

She appears to have lived a very vivid life as the Princess of Wales.

I don't know what is meant by a vivid life, but it does not mean that she may not have been lonely..

 

[QueenEmpath]

Diana always felt lonely even before her wedding to Charles. Due to her mother's abandonment and her older sisters not being around when she was younger.

 

[Denville]

From what I've read, Diana never seemed to be comfortable in her own skin when she was left to her own devices. Its been stated in many places that Diana always seemed to be glued to her phone or had ear buds playing music from her walkman or even went in search of staff to talk to.

There is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely. I do believe that Diana was searching for an all encompassing love that surrounded her and that was something that she never found. She was very much a people person more so than she was a introverted soul that preferred to be alone. Perhaps thats a reason why she never could understand Charles and his need to be alone in his own world sometimes painting or hiking or fishing and in general, seeking solitude. In that respect, Charles and Diana were two totally opposite kind of people.

When two people share a life together and have little to nothing in common, there's little they enjoy together and that, in and of itself, can create loneliness and longing for something different.

Im not so sure that Charles was a loner and diana a people person, per se. I think that he does enjoy his own compny, but he also has a close circle of friends and likes to be with htem… but there are times he likes to do hobbies alone. ANd Diana IMO was more in need of company after her marriage because she had married into a situation where she was expected to mix with the RF, and found they weren't that congenial.. so she needed to try and find some companionship that was more agreeable. and she and Charles were both IMO lonely in their marriage, because they coudlnt' connect with each other...

Diana always felt lonely even before her wedding to Charles. Due to her mother's abandonment and her older sisters not being around when she was younger.

She had hr little brother and when she went to school she had a cirlcle of friends. However I agree that her mother's leaving her, left a psychological wound....

 

[Tsaritsa]

She had hr little brother and when she went to school she had a cirlcle of friends. However I agree that her mother's leaving her, left a psychological wound....

That would have been her first foray into motherhood, something she excelled at. The memory of rejection never leaves and the very tactics employed to prevent it happening again are often the cause of it happening again.

 

[Osipi]

In fact, I think one of the major selling points for Diana with marrying the Prince of Wales was holding onto the idea that this was a marriage that could never end in divorce. That aspect of security for Diana was very appealing.

It also could have led to her downfall over time holding that belief. Divorce was unthinkable and with that option out of the picture, it gave to more leeway to act in ways that she may not have done if she knew that at any given moment, Charles could and would file for divorce and leave her on her own once again.

 

[Tsaritsa]

From what I've read, Diana never seemed to be comfortable in her own skin when she was left to her own devices. Its been stated in many places that Diana always seemed to be glued to her phone or had ear buds playing music from her walkman or even went in search of staff to talk to.

There is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely. I do believe that Diana was searching for an all encompassing love that surrounded her and that was something that she never found. She was very much a people person more so than she was a introverted soul that preferred to be alone. Perhaps thats a reason why she never could understand Charles and his need to be alone in his own world sometimes painting or hiking or fishing and in general, seeking solitude. In that respect, Charles and Diana were two totally opposite kind of people.

When two people share a life together and have little to nothing in common, there's little they enjoy together and that, in and of itself, can create loneliness and longing for something different.

Put simply, Osipi, she was looking for the person who could wave a magic wand and make everything better, ie erase the pain of the past and ensure a happy ever after future, rather like we say "There, there" to a child and, despite the outer sophistication she acquired, Diana's inner child was never far from the surface, SUCH was her need to be unconditionally loved. Who better to do this than the most -in her 'child's' eyes- than the most powerful man in the country, the Prince of Wales? Trouble was, like most small children, she had no conception that he'd have needs of his own. At the time of their marriage, it's very likely Charles was her hero. Hero's don't have the same needs as lesser mortals, do they?

You're correct in that she probably wasn't comfortable with her own company. It's likely that she needed the validation and approval of another for her to be visible in her own eyes. Almost as if it needed another to ensure her she existed. This maybe why she performed her public duties so well. Her needs were being fed and she gave generously to those who fed her. Sadly, for her, the one person she'd depended on to feed her, was also hungry. It maybe that her insatiable need contributed to his looking elsewhere for his own 'food'.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

But some of what several of you are talking about also describes the needs of an introvert versus the needs of an extrovert. Introverts like Charles need to recharge by being alone, especially after attending an event with lots of people. Extroverts like Diana get their energy from interacting with other people and are drained from being alone.

 

[Osipi]

And right there lies the meat and the potatoes along with the gravy and hot biscuits of reasons that Diana and Charles shouldn't have gone into a marriage without really getting to know each other more intimately than they did. Its the oil and the vinegar reasons they'd never truly be compatible.

Now I'm hungry. Go figure.

 

[QueenEmpath]

And right there lies the meat and the potatoes along with the gravy and hot biscuits of reasons that Diana and Charles shouldn't have gone into a marriage without really getting to know each other more intimately than they did. Its the oil and the vinegar reasons they'd never truly be compatible.

Now I'm hungry. Go figure.

I was watching a documentary about Diana and Sarah yesterday. Where I learnt that both Diana and Andrew had known each other since half of their childhood and teenage years, they were in the same friend circle, they were around the same age. People thought they would end up marrying each other but everyone was shocked when Diana married Charles instead. Later it was Diana who introduced Sarah and Andrew
IMO mebye she got married to the wrong person

 

[Osipi]

Yeps. The assumption that Diana and Andrew were perhaps slated to head to the altar was how Diana got her nickname "Duchess" or "Duch" at a young age.

However, I just can't picture Diana being happy as a Navy wife with Andrew off at sea so much. It sure didn't work wonders for Andrew and Sarah's marriage.

 

[Denville]

I was watching a documentary about Diana and Sarah yesterday. Where I learnt that both Diana and Andrew had known each other since half of their childhood and teenage years, they were in the same friend circle, they were around the same age. People thought they would end up marrying each other but everyone was shocked when Diana married Charles instead. Later it was Diana who introduced Sarah and Andrew
IMO mebye she got married to the wrong person

I'd be very surprised if people really thought of them as a possible couple. THey played together as children, and she did joke about his being her friend as a kid but when she was old enough to get married at 19 or so, Andrew was still very young.. plus I think the old childhood friendship had been outgrown...and in any case Andrew and she would have been IMO even more oil and water than her and CHarles. He would have been away at his Naval posting.. He was bumptious and arrogant, and somewhat crude..

 

[Pranter]

Andrew might of suited Diana in some ways..she was known to be slightly vulgar/crude at times as well. His kidding and joking would of suited her I think...but the separation might of been too much.


LaRae