The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1741  
Old 07-05-2016, 03:49 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
People often try to put on a good face during the courtship phase - maybe Diana thought at one point she may come to like the countryside?
She did like the countryside, in good weather for a weekend. but when she was stuck there for weeks, in the autumn, in the rain, with Charles out shooting, and the rest of the RF seeming very dull and very over formal, she problaby realised at some level that she didn't like it and maybe it came to her that she was never going to.
__________________

  #1742  
Old 07-05-2016, 03:50 AM
WreathOfLaurels's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 424
Agreed. Recall my mother telling the 10 year old me off for criticising Charles's parenting, but that is how it looked at the time.
__________________

  #1743  
Old 07-05-2016, 03:58 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I am not saying this to start a fight, but I am just speculating. I think at the if Diana had just went along and participated in Charles's interests and been a little more submissive to the royal life, if what they had would have turned into love over time. It was a really nice life she married into. But, then both of them were immature and I don't know if either of them could have put the other first.
I think they boht tried. I dotnt think that Chas was a heartless so and so and I don't think that Di was a monster of selfishness. They did care for each other, she is a very child like hero worshipping way.. and he in a "i don't love her as much as Cam but she's a sweet girl" way. I think he tried to help her get intot royal life.. he took her on sunny holidays.. He played with the kids.. And she tried ot put up with Balmoral and shooting and polo.
But it was against their natural inlcinations. He was happy with the life he had, he did believe that Di shared some of his interests and would get inot the other ones as she grew older... and he already had Cam as a past love who DID share many interests but was capable of doing things on her onw when he wasn't around. He problaby expected the same from his wife, when he got one..
Diana was less independent than Cam, and she was still developing. And as she did develop, she grew away from the RF's tastes, she liked the city and the world of celebrity. She enjoyed going to the gym and swimming and tennis. C remained in his comfortable enjoyment of blood sports, gardening, living in the country..
She found the RF dull and stuffy, and IMO they started out thinking she was sweet and were delighted with her popularity but then began to find her emotionalism hard to cope with and to get a bit irritated that the public adored her, but didn't know how difficult she could be.
So as she grew more confident she was more ill at ease with the RF than ever and of course that impacted on the relationship with Charles..
  #1744  
Old 07-05-2016, 05:15 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
No, Brown does quote someone I think, I can't find the page number but it seems to ring true for me. Read the Brandeth book, it's much better than it sounds
I tried ot find this bit about Cam trying to patch up her marriage with Andrew, in Tina B today, now I didn't read everything but I couldn't find it in the most obvious places.
  #1745  
Old 07-05-2016, 05:23 PM
WreathOfLaurels's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 424
Whoops it was Brandreth I was thinking of not brown - sorry! a page so where in the chapter where D enters the picture roughly the 220s in the paperback version I think
  #1746  
Old 07-05-2016, 07:40 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,779
I've always though an older man should never marry a teenager because they don't even know who they are yet. There's no way Charles could have known what Diana's interests were because Diana herself didn't know at that age. It seems even after marriage Diana took a few years to develop her interests past being good with children. Charles tried and Diana tried by like you said Denville it was against their nature's and couples usually have at least something's in common to counteract the things they have to force themselves to do for their spouse. For example he likes monster trucks she likes Renaissance fairs and after they both like sitting on the couch watching Game of Thrones.
__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
  #1747  
Old 07-05-2016, 07:42 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't think it is absurd. OK the queen is a lot older than Di, but I think that with her frist 2 children she wasn't the most affectionate mother. Some of it was to do with her class and time, yes, but I think that perhaps it was only when she was older, with Andrew and Ed that she felt able to be a more relaxed mother. I get the feeling that she thought Di was over doting, and there is a story that one day whn Di was looking after the boys because it was Nanny's day off, she said "I don't know why Diana has to do this, there are plenty of housemaids". I think that she is of the age that saw nanny as the chief care giver... and I think there was a lot fo friction between Chas and botht parents. Of course they've moved past it.. They are basically good people and old enough to learn to get over things..but back in the 80s I think it was still bothering Charles that his parents had not been very affectionate to him..
I was watching some footage of Di and C with the children last night and yes it is obvious that Charles loves the boys, but not I think the way that Diana did. Her heart was bound up with those boys...and I think that C has only gotten really close to them since Diana died. I think that when his marriage got bad, he was away more and left the kids to Diana..
Of course he loves them and hes a more affectionate father than Phil was to him.. but I think that Diana lived for them.. and I don't think whatever her faults, that being a very very loving mother would do them any harm. I'm sure they had their times of being upset by her behaviour because she was angry and unhappy, but they knew she always loved htem and I think that it was easy to forgive her..
You are correct. The Queen is not the President or Prime Minister. Yes, she was young and had responsibilities, but warmth and love are easily given. That Charles loves the boys, is quite apparent and never questioned. He knew the sterility of his life. He spoke of it. And, in the queen's defense, she is not a warm type. That does not mean she doesn't love. And Philip is the same. I think that is why Catherine gravitates her children towards her family.
  #1748  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:03 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,896
I really don't see the DoE and Queen as being cold people....there's just too many photos of them warmly interacting with family/friends...children. Kate appears, to me, to have a warm relationship with the Queen and DoE...even Anne and Camilla.


LaRae
  #1749  
Old 07-05-2016, 10:12 PM
WreathOfLaurels's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 424
When Diana accused Charles and the rest of the RF of being cold and not into touching, her standards of such things were very demanding and the RF are not touchy feely people who wear their hears on their sleeves - some people are just like that through temperament.
  #1750  
Old 07-05-2016, 10:30 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 2,807
It was not Diana's fault that people just naturally flocked to see her and bypassed Charles. Diana was not born a Royal; she married a Royal and thus became a Royal. She was a lady first and foremost.
  #1751  
Old 07-05-2016, 11:08 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
When Diana accused Charles and the rest of the RF of being cold and not into touching, her standards of such things were very demanding and the RF are not touchy feely people who wear their hears on their sleeves - some people are just like that through temperament.
I don't think it was so much the 'touchy-feely' element that Diana commented on (the Queen is reserved and has the Windsor shyness and I can't imagine Prince Philip being the huggy type) as the fact that there was never any praise for her, even after her first tour, of Wales, which according to all accounts was an ordeal because of huge pressing crowds.

Charles gave her encouraging pep talks occasionally in those first months of her marriage when they did joint engagements together, but Diana apparently wished there could have been a query from other royals, a 'How are you feeling about meeting the crowds? Do you find it at all fun/intimidating?' a cheery 'You seem to be getting on well, Well done!' But there was nothing.

Now, I know that the BRF for the most part are matter of fact sort of people who 'just get on with it' and they were all used to crowds and Royal engagements, probably didn't even think of giving any praise, but please remember Diana's age when she married, just 20, and the fact that she would have appreciated some feedback. A 'Well Done' when she performed an engagement professionally and pleased the crowds wouldn't have gone astray.
  #1752  
Old 07-05-2016, 11:24 PM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,861
Charles was supportive. Her staff was supportive. And not just for a few months.

Behind the scene, QEQM and the BRF might have been supportive as were probably her family who were 'members' of the BRF 'team', like Diana's grandmother and great aunts.

When did Diana do her first solo walk about?

She and Charles did public events before they married.

Excluding going to Monaco after Grace Kelly's death, when and what was Diana's first solo engagement.
  #1753  
Old 07-05-2016, 11:40 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,865
Diana wasn't really close to her grandmother Ruth and her great aunts. I didn't say anything about solo engagements. Even with Charles by her side, (and I said in my post that he was encouraging) facing huge crowds, even welcoming ones, and making smalltalk with strangers, would have been an ordeal for someone not long out of her teens.

I've no doubt that her staff were supportive. They were paid to be. Diana felt that her inlaws didn't give her any praise or encouragement and there is no anecdotal evidence anywhere that they did, probably for the reasons I put in my post.
  #1754  
Old 07-06-2016, 12:18 AM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,861
I do not understand what was expected from the BRF?

In 1981, she visited Wales with Charles and then a walk about at Christmas with the entire family.
  #1755  
Old 07-06-2016, 12:34 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I've always though an older man should never marry a teenager because they don't even know who they are yet. There's no way Charles could have known what Diana's interests were because Diana herself didn't know at that age.
I think it really comes down to selfless love, love that gives and doesn't take. My mother married at 18 and my father was 14 years older and yet they lived and loved and shared. Many were quite surprised at just how old my father was when he died! But, for them age was irrelevant, they were just any married couple. Happines is not promised to anyone but a choice to be made.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
  #1756  
Old 07-06-2016, 01:19 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,281
Imo the temperament of the BRF and Diana was one of the biggest mismatches, Diana seems indeed to have been a person who liked to get compliments once in a while (maybe often) and explicit compliments not just "implied without it needing to be said", whereas the Windsors, as imo is very clear from recent documentaries are very understated with eachother and have a somewhat sarcastic sense of humor but if you're used to that and are the same yourself, you'll know that these have an underlying sense of appreciation.
(My family are the same really in this aspect, but i know it can come acros as strange to outsiders; we try to tone it down when others are around..)

Maybe they did some extra effort in the beginning, but it's not in their nature to always use open praise for someone, and imo Diana never got used to that (and probably never would have as it was 180 degrees opposite to the way she would have wanted)

It wasn't an ideal match, but my personal believe is that the relationship would have gotten better after Diana's independence after the divorce and she didn't rely on them anymore for the compliments

Sadly, her life was cut short too early
__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
  #1757  
Old 07-06-2016, 01:59 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,453
I think that some of thte Windsors are rather cold, and all of them nearly are of the old fashioned "Get on with it" school. Diana needed a lot of reassurance, perhaps more than was realistic.. but whatever she hoped for, she really was not going to get it with them.
I think the queen is shy, and awkward even with the people she loves most and Charles felt that lack of overt affection, when he was a kid. Anne probalby didn't because she is a very tough IMO hard edged creature and wasn't bothered by it.
But Diana tried to give her sons lots of love, and so in his way did Charles. Perhaps he wasn't as devoted, or spending as much time with them as she did, but he clearly DID feel from footage I have seen of him, that he should show them plenty of "touching" affection.
  #1758  
Old 07-06-2016, 06:17 AM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,896
There are people who just require a lot of positive reinforcement ..I think Diana was one of those. Not to mention she was very young and insecure. Not that confident. She probably needed that propping up/support more than anyone realized. She put on a good front perhaps and the family didn't realize she was struggling as much as she was, not at first anyway.


LaRae
  #1759  
Old 07-06-2016, 03:24 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
There are people who just require a lot of positive reinforcement ..I think Diana was one of those. Not to mention she was very young and insecure. Not that confident. She probably needed that propping up/support more than anyone realized. She put on a good front perhaps and the family didn't realize she was struggling as much as she was, not at first anyway.


LaRae
i can see that it was probably tiring, for both C and his family, to have Diana looking for constant reassurance.. but she was young, naieve, and very very immature...
  #1760  
Old 07-06-2016, 06:23 PM
WreathOfLaurels's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 424
Catherine Meyer's bio of Charles makes the point of his emotional immaturity and just how emotionally febrile he was as well. Their similarities had as much to with the breakdown of the relationship as did their differences. Meyer also mentions the generation gap between the two (Charles was born in 1948 and Diana in 1961) as a factor as well.
__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
diana princess of wales, marriage, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charles and Diana Picture Thread Josefine Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 440 02-20-2017 11:31 AM
Charles and Diana: Visit to Italy - 1985 jun5 Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 57 09-02-2012 09:35 PM




Popular Tags
affair albania ascot 2016 best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit birthday carl gustaf coup d'etat crown princess mary crown princess mary evening dresses crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit eveningwear december denmark duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall hats duke of cambridge earthquakes fashion poll gothia cup hereditary grand duchess stéphanie's fashion & style jewels king abdullah ii king carl gustaf and queen silvia king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand noice norway november 2016 october 2016 picture of the week prince charles princess eugenie outfit princess marie princess mary princess mary casual style princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess sofia princess sofias hats princess victoria hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margrethe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania fashion queen silvia september 2016 state visit succession sweden the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats tiara wreathoflaurels


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises