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  #1701  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
They both enjoyed classical music, and they both had their favourite pop groups. They both seemed to enjoy walking.



I suppose that my view is different from that of a lot of people. I don't think that the marriage had to end the way it did. As Diana's mother was quoted as saying, "Two people believed in the marriage, and so it was right."
Who believed in it? that's pretty silly honestly if Frances SK said it. Sure they believed at the time of the marriage that ti would be ok, but even then I think both of them had doubts... and later on, they had big doubts.
And it was more than limited common interests. Their temperaments clashed, he was old fashioned and embarrassed by emotion. Diana probably thrived on dramas and rows. They had different view points. And Di was extremely immature, and I think that she had mental problems which might not have come to the fore in a less stressed environment. But in the one she was in, where she flet unhappy and isolated with her new family, where the press was watching her all the time.. she was in a very stressful environment.
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  #1702  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
They did not have the same difficulty that Diana faced, where she believed that the marriage had to go on, and I'm sure if she spoke to anyone in the RF about it, they would have told her that she could not get a divorce
Why is there always some excuse as to why Diana's situation was different or special and that's why she did what she did? , First She was of a different generation, now it's she felt she couldn't get a divorce, what will be the next excuse?
Bottom line is she is not the first famous women to have a cheating husband and an unhappy marriage.She had a few options at her disposal and clearly divorce was not an impossibility because a few before her and after her got divorces.
Diana's problem is she wanted a divorce then didn't want a divorce then wanted one again. Every marriage is different and how people deal with infidelity is different, but when children are involved you should try to maintain respect and dignity.
The way Diana handled things seems to show a lack of maturity and like she is throwing a public temper tantrum. We know she was too indulged as a child and prone to lashing out and not doing things she didn't want to do. This isn't a generational problem it is a Diana problem.
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  #1703  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:03 PM
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Yes, I think this is true. She was ill, but illnesses can be treated.

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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
The way Diana handled things seems to show a lack of maturity and like she is throwing a public temper tantrum. We know she was too indulged as a child and prone to lashing out and not doing things she didn't want to do. This isn't a generational problem it is a Diana problem.
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  #1704  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:40 PM
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(WARNING SARCASAM AHEAD) Always got the impression that Charles must have been cursing his luck conpared to Juan Carlos and Carl Gustav and Albert and the others; who could diddle to their hearts content with little to no media censure or real opposition from the ball and chain (at least at the time) while he was the one getting bashed in the press for no good reason.


I mean it was only one woman, and Diana was just impossible and she cheated first and with many others and it wasn't like he wanted to marry her in the first place and waiting for Mater to hurry up and abdicate was such a trial....

Man, being one of the most wealthy and privileged men in the world can really suck, can't it?
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  #1705  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:53 PM
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I "get" your sarcasm. I really do. I don't have much sympathy for Prince Charles in the matter of the marriage. Diana had her issues, but it was Charles who courted her and decided to propose. It was Charles who allowed himself to be "forced" into marriage with a teenager. He showed a lack of wisdom and backbone IMO.

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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
I mean it was only one woman, and Diana was just impossible and she cheated first and with many others and it wasn't like he wanted to marry her in the first place and waiting for Mater to hurry up and abdicate was such a trial....
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  #1706  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
(WARNING SARCASAM AHEAD) Always got the impression that Charles must have been cursing his luck conpared to Juan Carlos and Carl Gustav and Albert and the others; who could diddle to their hearts content with little to no media censure or real opposition from the ball and chain (at least at the time) while he was the one getting bashed in the press for no good reason.


I mean it was only one woman, and Diana was just impossible and she cheated first and with many others and it wasn't like he wanted to marry her in the first place and waiting for Mater to hurry up and abdicate was such a trial....

Man, being one of the most wealthy and privileged men in the world can really suck, can't it?
Right you are. Prince Charles did show his whiny/broody side more than once.
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  #1707  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:11 PM
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The person that Charles loved the best was Charles. Still is.
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  #1708  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:18 PM
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Indeed one of the reasons I always liked Diana was her willingness to tell Charles what he needed to hear not what he wanted to hear
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  #1709  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I don't believe age has anything to do with how Diana acted with a cheating husband. There are a few women I know of who have had famous cheating spouses but have maintained their dignity and respected their husband's publicly and did not get to destroy them. Even those who are of the post 60/70s generation who decided to end the marriage still did not lash out like Diana did.
I totally agree with you. Diana's behavior at that time seemed to be reactive according to what was happening in the press. The more she was criticised the more outrageous she became.

The news about Hewitt sent shock waves through the entire Commonwealth, her response was her "autobiography". But even when she was throwing her husband under a bus there were still those that raised more than an eyebrow about her treating her children as adults and turning her eldest son into her confidant.

I am always annoyed when I hear someone claim she was a wonderful mother when she made no attempt to shield her children from the scandals, children tend to know who's coming and going from their home escpecially if it was secret. Worse, she actually exposeded them to public shame and ridicule with Morton's book and her Panorama piece which seemed to open the floodgates of her exes telling all.

People also tend to forget that after the separation she radically cut her charity appearances to give her time to 'find herself', no longer being a member of the Firm. However, she seemed to be living the life the of a wealthy socialite which merely instigated more scandalous publicity. The worse the publicity the more we saw Diana and "her boys" at funparks etc.

No one is perfect, certainly not Charles, but I did and continue to admire him for not responding in kind and never denigrating his children's mother in public.
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  #1710  
Old 07-04-2016, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
(WARNING SARCASAM AHEAD) Always got the impression that Charles must have been cursing his luck conpared to Juan Carlos and Carl Gustav and Albert and the others; who could diddle to their hearts content with little to no media censure or real opposition from the ball and chain (at least at the time) while he was the one getting bashed in the press for no good reason.


I mean it was really suck, can't it?
Its not a competition. Both of them suffered, both had bad luck as well as making bad choices and I feel for both of them. I think that C didn't realy want to marry unless it was to Camilla, but he had to. and Diana was too immature to marry but had been brought up with a poor education, not much home affection and all she had to live by was a feeling that she was going to make some kind of special marriage, and have kids...so she was of course tempted by a match with someone like Charles. But while she was a dazzling star in so many ways, she was unhappy, she acted up, she was difficult. IM not saying she wasn't, but she did try her best to do the public role, and it wasn't her fault that she was ill equipped to win C's love and that Chas loved his old girlfriend more. I feel sorry for both of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Why is there always some excuse as to why The way Diana handled things seems to show a lack of maturity and like she is throwing a public temper tantrum. We know she was too indulged as a child and prone to lashing out and not doing things she didn't want to do. This isn't a generational problem it is a Diana problem.
Her situation was virtually unique. Other royal marriages had ended in divorce but this one was supposed to last. And she was of a generation that knew how to handle the media, she had the charm to attract massive media and public attention...She was alsos of a generation that she was less inclined to ignore her husband's infidelities and just lead her own life apart from him. A woman of Q Sofia of Spain's age, would just ignore it, however now Soifa has separated from her husband.. late but clearly she too didn't like living with a man who was consistently unfaithful.
I think that she didn't entirely know what she wanted, did she wanted to get out of the marriage and the RF and stay there, and lead a private life.. and she did veer about, and was mixed up. But I pity her for that. She had bad advice, she didn't always listen to good advice and she was desperate.
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  #1711  
Old 07-04-2016, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
[...] A woman of Q Sofia of Spain's age, would just ignore it, however now Soifa has separated from her husband.. [...]
Source?
By my best knowledge Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía are not separated at all and live at La Zarzuela. (Also Princess Irene, Queen Sofía's sister, lives on the compound). Recently the former King and Queen have been seen doing events together.
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  #1712  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:44 AM
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Would the 'children always tend to know who's coming and going from their home, especially if it was secret,' include Camilla, who secretly came and went from Highgrove, or wasn't Highgrove 'their home'?

Diana was a wonderful mother to her children. They were her world, even people who weren't keen on her said as much. They adored her and she them. Even today they speak of her often, with reverence and with love. Diana took them to theme parks because it was the school holidays and she wanted her boys to enjoy themselves, which they did. They weren't taken there to fend off bad publicity. She'd have to be pretty calculating as a parent to have that as a motive and I don't believe she was.

It's probably a good job neither William or Harry can read or hear attacks on her and there have been plenty, especially criticising her maternal instincts, from people who never knew her.

If you take a look at the tributes paid to her over the years from her sons, even earlier this year, the speech Harry gave at the Diana memorial service, the things William has spoken of over the years, his wanting to give Kate his mother's ring so she would in a sense be there sharing their happiness, Harry speaking of the massive gap she left in their lives, no-one can doubt the influence she has had on her sons or the bond they shared.
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  #1713  
Old 07-04-2016, 08:08 AM
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One of the most hateful thing anyone could say is the someone was a bad mother. Diana adored her boys that was clear to see and they loved her. As Curryong has pointed out how they express their love of her constantly.
I think we are really hitting a low point if we say she wasn't a good mother


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  #1714  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:45 AM
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It's probably a good job neither William or Harry can read or hear attacks on her and there have been plenty, especially criticising her maternal instincts, from people who never knew her.

Ifinfluence she has had on her sons or the bond they shared.
I think she was a very good mother, not perfect. She problaby did lean on the boys too much, and she should Not IMO have publicised her marital troubles.
But I don't believe that she used the boys for PR, any more than Charles did when he was seen with them. She took them places because she wanted them to have a good time, but I think she realised as she/they grew older that they were beginning to prefer time with Charles in Balmoral.
But I m not sure why you think that Will& H don't see some of the attacks on her. There have been critical books and articles, I'm sure they know of them..

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Yes, I think this is true. She was ill, but illnesses can be treated.
If you mean a psychological problem, its not that easy to "cure". you don't jut leap off the couch all cured. Its more of a lifetime battle. And I don't think that Diana had that much help...
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  #1715  
Old 07-04-2016, 12:43 PM
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If you mean a psychological problem, its not that easy to "cure". you don't jut leap off the couch all cured. Its more of a lifetime battle. And I don't think that Diana had that much help...
IMHO Diana was not always receptive to the help being offered especially in the early years of her marriage. If you are not ready to accept the fact that you require assistance, it's unlikely to be beneficial in the long run. By the time that Diana's bulimia was becoming unmanageable, then she was ready to work with a psychiatrist to deal with the underlying issues of her eating disorder. It was the same mental health expert who had successfully treated her sister Sarah.
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  #1716  
Old 07-04-2016, 01:57 PM
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If you mean a psychological problem, its not that easy to "cure". you don't jut leap off the couch all cured. Its more of a lifetime battle. And I don't think that Diana had that much help...
IMO, she could have had all the help she needed 24/7 and medication up the wazoo but the help and meds only steers the boat in a certain direction and its really up to the person, themselves, to make a recovery or change of a way of thinking. I think Diana made some very serious inroads into her bulimia battles over the years even to the point of being able to talk about it openly and publicly. That really counts for something.
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  #1717  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:01 PM
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I seem to remember Diana saying something bout having depression after William and none of the family had any experience with it..didn't know how to handle it or what to do with her. This was in the 80's...things like that were not as talked about or understood then either.

I can't imagine it myself...being in the public fishbowl...new wife, new mother at 21 (?)...shaky marriage at best.


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  #1718  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:07 PM
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IMO, she could have had all the help she needed 24/7 and medication up the wazoo but the help and meds only steers the boat in a certain direction and its really up to the person, themselves, to make a recovery or change of a way of thinking. I something.
well yes and No. THe RF doesn't "do" mental health problems really and I'm sure they were very worried in the early years that she clearly had depression and some kind of eating problem, so they were scared it would get out. I think she did try to get over her bulimia, and her depression but I do think that she needed a lot of help. Maybe taking a year off and having serious therapy and that wasn't possible when she was still a full time royal. And perhaps to have a fully happy life, maybe she needed to give up the public role that she had, and lead a much quieter life. But I think that even though she was not always up to doing it, the public role had become very important to her and she was trying to keep going at it. She needed the validation of public approval...I think if she had really matured, really gotten over her worst problems, she would have realised that she didn't really need that.. but without her public role, she had her boys and not much else.
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  #1719  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:15 PM
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well yes and No. THe RF doesn't "do" mental health problems really and I'm sure they were very worried in the early years that she clearly had depression and some kind of eating problem, so they were scared it would get out. I think she did try to get over her bulimia, and her depression but I do think that she needed a lot of help. Maybe taking a year off and having serious therapy and that wasn't possible when she was still a full time royal. And perhaps to have a fully happy life, maybe she needed to give up the public role that she had, and lead a much quieter life. But I think that even though she was not always up to doing it, the public role had become very important to her and she was trying to keep going at it. She needed the validation of public approval...I think if she had really matured, really gotten over her worst problems, she would have realised that she didn't really need that.. but without her public role, she had her boys and not much else.
I think that summarises all the causes and results quite well. Had she been more confident in herself, she could perhaps have handled the situation with Charles and Camilla in a better way. But admitting to yourself that you have a problem is hard, very hard. Taking the step to actively seek help, is even harder. Without emotional support from friends and family, it is even worse.
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  #1720  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:30 PM
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well I think that honestly her best bet would have been to quietly ignore C and Cam and get on with life, have a lover, spend time with her sons and her charity work. but I suppose she could not do that. She wanted a proper marriage.. but I think that the whole experience of the marriage and the publicity she attracted in the 1980s just made what might have been a certain amount of problems really deep seated. So that she would IMO have needed a HECK of a lot of help to get over it and maybe to give up being Diana the public figure. And I agree that she did have problems with seeking help and looked for it in the wrong places, but I do think her options were limited and its easy looking form outside to say "she could have given up her public work and gone into therapy and stayed home and worked on her problems..". If she was already feeling bad because she felt so helpless and useless, giving up her public work was only going ot make that feeling worse.
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