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  #1641  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:00 AM
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This is a lot of talk about that one time Diana danced with a 5'2 openly gay man and how it must have upset her husband...
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  #1642  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:05 AM
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We all have our opinions, but the poor long suffering faultless Charles fable is no nearer the truth than the myth that Diana was a complete baby Saint who married a man who just wanted her as a brood mare.

I don't believe that Diana danced with Sleep in order to upset Charles. Why would it upset him? He knew him.

Diana being a flirt is neither here nor there. Perhaps she enjoyed flirting. A lot of people do. It doesn't make them rotten human beings.

The Mannakee-Diana relationship was introduced into the Inquest by Al Fayed lawyers but a physical relationship (apart from being confidantes) has never been confirmed. Hewitt claimed at certain times that he and Diana were having an affair earlier than when Harry was a toddler but then reverted back to his original story that they had become lovers in 1986.
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  #1643  
Old 06-29-2016, 04:20 AM
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well really Diana's dancing with a gay man or a heterosexual man, should harldy be a reason for jealousy or annoyance in any husband. And why on earth would she want to upset him?? I think that what bothered him was his feeling left out, and perhaps the fact that some watchers saw it as her trying to woo him, just as she used to say to her dressmakers, "will my husband like me in this dress?" She still had feelings for him, but he had lost his feelings for her and was now wit Camilla... and he was probably embarrassed and guilty..
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  #1644  
Old 06-29-2016, 06:57 AM
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To throw another log on the fire here, perhaps one aspect that we're overlooking here with Diana, flirting and Charles looking on is that perhaps as Charles observed his young wife acting and interacting with people in such a youngish, open manner, he realizes more and more just how much the age difference stood out and how different they both were. Charles, from all I've read about him, is more or less a poster child for being an introvert whereas Diana could be quite extroverted and the life of the party.

With this in mind, I do think it was very possible that some rumors of affairs (like with Mannakee) weren't affairs at all but Diana clicking with people and making them comfortable around her enough to form a friendship. With Diana's extroverted exuberance, she was much more demonstrative and perhaps was a person that hugs came easily to. We see that in Harry quite a bit. Harry hugs someone warmly and the Daily Fail has him going down the aisle with the huggee should she be single and female. William shows Charles' restraint and a tendency to keep people at arms length.

A lot of the differences that came to the surface, I think, in the early years were more or less personality clashes.
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  #1645  
Old 06-29-2016, 07:08 AM
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I think that Diana's flirting may have bothered C a bit in the early years, but as time went on, he didn't care any more. however, the story goes that he got annoyed about Manakee because either he thought it was an affair.. or he thought that Di was being too indiscreetly confiding in a policeman.. Possibly in the early years he did feel a bit left out if she flirted and had fun with younger men, and it made him feel his age..or feel that Diana didn't care as much for him as she did for her lively younger male friends. But still I don't believe it bothered him after a while..He didn't love her enough to be really jealous
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  #1646  
Old 06-29-2016, 07:43 AM
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There does come a time in a relationship that isn't on solid ground where the best clue that it has reached its sell by date and is truly over is that there are no feelings left about the relationship at all. Even with the fighting and hollering and exchanges of angry words, its still communication between two people.

As someone once told me "Show me a couple that never disagrees or has their tiffs and bouts of discordance and I'll show you a couple with a dead relationship". No one can really get along with another person 100% of the time in a very close relationship such as a marriage.
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  #1647  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:13 AM
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I think Charles was upset with Diana's flirting because it occurred while she was with him.

It was disrespectful to him as a man to see his wife flirt with other men and humiliating as the POW to watch her flirt while others also watched.

IMO, Charles might have been less upset if she had a private affair than the public flirting. An affair is only a private humiliation while the flirting was disrespectful and humiliating and in public.

I think most men, especially of his generation, would have seen flirting with another man while in his presence as disrespectful.

There is no evidence that Charles was with Camilla prior to 1988.

We do not have dates from Charles nor Camilla and their friends say 1988/after Diana had several affairs.
We do know that Mannakee was removed from service because he was 'too close to Diana'.
It was confirmed in the inquest that he had an intimate relationship. We also have her comments that she tried to backtrack on.
We know that Hewitt was her lover and it is his word that the relationship began in 1983.
We know that Charles and Diana had a rough patch in 1983.
We know that the marriage was over in 1986 except in name only, which coincides with Mannakee being dismissed.

I do not see how anyone can say Charles was with Camilla in 1985 or earlier and dismiss the evidence against Diana's affairs. Charles only said he was unfaithful only after his marriage had irretrievably broken down.
He gave no dates.
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  #1648  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:33 AM
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To me, it doesn't matter who cheated with whom and who went first or any of that kind of stuff. Affairs and intimate relationships outside of a marriage happen when the relationship within the marriage is lacking something. Both Charles and Diana were so very mismatched that it was impossible, as time passed, to breach the gulf and come to a happy compromise that would strengthen and enhance their relationship and cement a common bond. It happens worldwide to millions of people. Myself included. Sometimes I think its fitting to use a idiom that "marriage is a road paved with good intentions towards a divorce" in the case with a lot of people that believed they could make a marriage work only to find their differences so strong that they couldn't.
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  #1649  
Old 06-29-2016, 09:49 AM
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Queen Camilla you weaken your argument when you try to use the Hewitt rewrite of 1983 as fact.
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  #1650  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:31 AM
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One person's charm is another's flirt. One is a compliment while the other is a dig, IMO.

I always believed Diana had charm for days.... Men and women alike referred to her ability to make you feel like you were the only person in the room. A skill not shared by her former husband in accounts I've read of him in social situations. JMO.
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  #1651  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:38 PM
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After all this to and fro about dancing, to flirt or not flirt, who started what and who was worse than who, i have an urgent need to post a pic about C&D in simpler times with the two great loves of their lives
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...0399877433.jpg

just to have a different post before we go back to the other stuff
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  #1652  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:53 PM
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Thank you much for that much needed correction on the point that Charles and Diana needed a common bond to cement a relationship. Their boys always have and always will be an indisputable area where Charles and Diana agreed on and focused their love and attention towards no matter what was going on between them as a couple.
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  #1653  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
After all this to and fro about dancing, to flirt or not flirt, who started what and who was worse than who, i have an urgent need to post a pic about C&D in simpler times with the two great loves of their lives
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...0399877433.jpg

just to have a different post before we go back to the other stuff
Excellent intermezzo.
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  #1654  
Old 06-29-2016, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
After all this to and fro about dancing, to flirt or not flirt, who started what and who was worse than who, i have an urgent need to post a pic about C&D in simpler times with the two great loves of their lives
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...0399877433.jpg

just to have a different post before we go back to the other stuff
Children aren't enough to hold an unhappy marriage together. I dont thtink that the kids were that much of a bond after the first few years.

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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Onthe only person in the room. A skill not shared by her former husband in accounts I've read of him in social situations. JMO.
I've never heard of her being flirtatious until the very late 80s or beginning of the 90s. Stoires emerged then in the papers that she was dancing with other men and seeming to enjoy herself having fun with them, rather than with Charles. and by then the papers were increasingly sure that the marriage was on the rocks and gradually it became clear that it was and that Charles at least was playing away. So I dont know where this idea that she was fliritng with other men in front of Charles has come from. And by the late 80s no matter what way you slice it Charles was definitely involved sexually with Camilla. in Tina B's biography, she notes that soon after their 7th Wedding anniversary, Diana was leaving Highgrove to go back to London one Sunday night and then turned round iwht her detective and went back to find Cam's car was parked outside. So if Diana was by the late 80s being flirty with other men, by then the marriage was clealry all but over and Charles was emotionally and sexually committed to Camilla.

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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Queen Camilla you weaken your argument when you try to use the Hewitt rewrite of 1983 as fact.
Hewitts affair with Diana problaby started around 1986 when she had begun to get over her bulimia and had lost hope of her marriage being very happy. He has backdated it now because he is a slimy so and so who is not happy that he's made his money out of her, he needs a new spin on the original story, to get some attention.
I dont know if there was an affair with Manakee, but I think there was a close frendship which bothered Charles because he felt she was too close to a mere policeman and that she was confiding too much in him. She problaby saw BM as someone to talk to and share things with, when she felt so unhappy in her marriage in the early years, Im sure there was a sexual element and perhaps it was an affair but I dont know for sure. I dont really believe that Charles cared all that much about any of her extra marital relationships. I think he did perhaps feel left out at times if she was seeing younger friends, because it made him conscious of thte gaps between them and he realised that their marriage wasnt' working out and never would..
and he may have worried she was talking too much to someone "outside the royal circle" like BM.. but I dont believe he felt much normal jealousy. I think that within a few years, he did not care much what she was up to, and was releived that she had Hewitt because he hoped that it would keep her happy and provided she was discreet, if she was hapier she was less likely to show the world that she was miserable with him, and less likely to complain about his relationship with Camilla.

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We all have our opinions, but the poor long suffering faultless Charles fable is no nearer the truth than the myth that Diana was a complete baby Saint who married a man who just wanted her as a brood mare.

I elovers in 1986.
He certainly wasn't a poor long suffering faultless creature. But I think he was bewildered by Diana and how she changed after their marraige. She had seemed to enjoy being with him, and liked his lifestyle and after marriage she was moody and miserable and clearly hated the country side of their life. But he certianly wasnt' faultless. I think he didn't meant to, but he thoguht of Camilla a lot, because he was increasingly unhappy wtih Diana. And he didnt understand her bulimia, but how could he? It wasn't well known at the time. I think that he soon realised the marriage was never going to work, and detached emotionally whereas Diana went on half hoping and being in love with him in her naive way..
But I would say that both of them turned ot other people, for the understanding they didnt' get from each other. He probalby phoned Camilla up, at times and she talked to Barry M. And I think that within a few years, he did feel that there was no hope at all that the marriage was going to succeed and he had Camilla still there, and willing to resume her affair with him...
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  #1655  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:32 AM
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It's strange how there is no thread for Camillias past, when did she first cheat on her husband with Charles who else did she have affairs with ?? What did her friends think of it all ? Did she disagree with her family sometimes ? I would love to know more about her but it seems no one is talking.


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  #1656  
Old 06-30-2016, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
It's strange how there is no thread for Camillias past, when did she first cheat on her husband with Charles who else did she have affairs with ?? What did her friends think of it all ? Did she disagree with her family sometimes ? I would love to know more about her but it seems no one is talking.


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I asked the same question on another thread and the simple answer is that there's a lot to hide and most of Camilla's friends have skeletons of their own they would like to keep well hidden. Put it this way, Camilla's poor reputation before she became duchess of Cornwall was not completely down to Diana's ravings and tabloid malice.
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  #1657  
Old 06-30-2016, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
I asked the same question on another thread and the simple answer is that there's a lot to hide and most of Camilla's friends have skeletons of their own they would like to keep well hidden. Put it this way, Camilla's poor reputation before she became duchess of Cornwall was not completely down to Diana's ravings and tabloid malice.

Well hopefully one day somebody talks. If she does become Queen it's weird that we know so little about her.


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  #1658  
Old 06-30-2016, 05:31 AM
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Well hopefully one day somebody talks. If she does become Queen it's weird that we know so little about her.
We know quite a bit about her, we just don't know all the sordid details of her marriage and extra-marital relationship. We shouldn't know those things about Charles and Diana, either.
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Old 06-30-2016, 05:40 AM
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Oh we will probably find out one day - nobody has to talk per se, it will just take some creativity and perseverance, but there's no reason why someone could not knock out something decent if unauthorised - there's a desire for a camilla bio, there's cash to be had and nature hates vacuums...
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  #1660  
Old 06-30-2016, 05:50 AM
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Why do you suppose no-one's written one to date? There are enough people out there who seem to hate Camilla, and have for decades now, so why hasn't anyone already written something?
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