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  #1621  
Old 06-24-2016, 08:42 PM
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Oh, what poppycock. Times have changed. Few see the Royal Family as, something out of the ordinary. Just folks who have held this position for generations through myth and swords. But Charles had as much responsibility as Diana, if that superior my was to be upheld. He didn't do it.
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  #1622  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
I find the dialog interesting. How about placing another personage in the role? Would the same be said had Sarah (Andrew's wife) done the same? How about Catherine (William's wife)? Is there a double standard at work here?

Just wondering if there really was something 'off' regarding Diana taking the lead in this way, but because it's Diana she cannot be faulted. Had Catherine done something like this I have a hunch the roof would have fallen and mention of her 'commoner' background made much of. Am I wrong?

Who exactly would have made a stir? The media, or the British people, or the RF? The media doesn't seem to like Kate for a variety of reasons mostly because she hasn't become Diana 2.0 and given them good stories. They love to bad mouth her family for daring to become rich.
Sarah was....excuse me for the bluntness....ugly and fat and no ones image of a Princess. If she did the dance now the British media would see it as her once again being disgraceful. If she did it in the 80s they would have mocked her body.
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  #1623  
Old 06-26-2016, 07:25 AM
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Sorry this is OT, but I think that is very unkind. Sarah wasn't beautfiul like Diana and she has weight problems,but in her early years of marraige, she was certianly not fat except by modern media standards. She had a nice figure and was curvy, with lovely hair.
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  #1624  
Old 06-26-2016, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And vice-versa, Lee Z, except that Charles's wrongdoings get ignored and not discussed by many on any thread. After all he's Royal, a future king, and alive, so therefore is regarded as sacrosanct by many.
Nobody did anyting wrong. There is nothing wrong with Diana doing a dance with another man for goodness sake and nothing wrong with Charles doing a skit with Diana. It was a "fun night" with as Tina B put it, Dancers singing and singers doing ballet. Wayne Sleep beleived that what DID miff C a bit was PERHAPS that he felt left out.. and that Di had perhaps "taken centre stage" a bit more than she had done previously. I dont think she consciously tried to upstage her husband in the early years, she just could not help it becauase she had that star quality. Charles was a bit hurt by it, but I can understand that. And later she DID use her star quality and media friendly charm to make him less important. As for "what woudl the media say if Kate had done this". I think that even if she wanted to, the girl has no real talent or charm or star quality (apart from presumably being good at sports) and problaby cuold not DO antying that would be a "Kate doing some special act".
But I'd imagine if she had done it, WIlliam woudl have been OK with it, becuase he isn't SO overshadowed by K as Charles was by Di, and the pres would have been fine iwth it if they got a few nice pics.
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  #1625  
Old 06-26-2016, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Who exactly would have made a stir? The media, or the British people, or the RF? The media doesn't seem to like Kate for a variety of reasons mostly because she hasn't become Diana 2.0 and given them good stories. They love to bad mouth her family for daring to become rich.

Sarah was....excuse me for the bluntness....ugly and fat and no ones image of a Princess. If she did the dance now the British media would see it as her once again being disgraceful. If she did it in the 80s they would have mocked her body.

That's not bluntness, that's rudeness.


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  #1626  
Old 06-26-2016, 08:49 AM
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I do agree though that IF Sarah had attempted to dance on stage in the 1980's the press would have been on the attack due to her lack of grace. She wasn't the most graceful walker for example, rather a waddle at times. She was voluptuous, with lovely Titian hair, but the Press became tired of her very quickly, (remember the 'Duchess of Pork' headlines) so it's a good job really that Sarah didn't try out a fun stage act with Andrew. It's A Royal Knockout was bad enough. Journalists would have had a field day and I can just imagine the headlines!
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  #1627  
Old 06-26-2016, 03:56 PM
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Well I dont think she would do this. She was more sporty than arty.. And her popularity with the press did decline..
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  #1628  
Old 06-26-2016, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Sorry this is OT, but I think that is very unkind. Sarah wasn't beautfiul like Diana and she has weight problems,but in her early years of marraige, she was certianly not fat except by modern media standards. She had a nice figure and was curvy, with lovely hair.
You may have thought that and good for you, I am talking about the media reaction and despite Fergie being refreshing she was always mocked for her looks, weight, behavior etc. I doubt a group of people who called her the Duchess of Pork share your sentiments about her. I stated I was going to be blunt and we are not talking about how her apologists on this board would react but the British media who love to tear down women especially and whose favorite victim is Sarah.
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  #1629  
Old 06-26-2016, 05:49 PM
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It goes up and down. Di woudl be favoured one day and Sarah the next. But it was her silliness and vulgarity that really put the press and people off her and she did finally lose any affection from the public...
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  #1630  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:49 AM
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It was the topless toe sucking photos in front of her girls that did that
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  #1631  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:18 AM
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I think it was a lot of things. Johnny Bryan, her not doing very much work, and her spending.. She's not a bad person, poor old Fergie but she's foolish and selfish...and can't manage money.
But to return to C and Diana, i dont know if he was really miffed about her dancing or exaclty why. I'd be inclined to think that perhaps it was her "going out on her own" doing it with Wayne Sleep.. but possibly too, if he had returned ot his affair with Cam by then, he was bothered by the fact that the dance was seen as her trying to "woo him"...
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  #1632  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This n to change into costume and sing? Did he not understand that he was not an artiste not a singer, not an actor, but a Prince, the Prince of Wales? Or is it somehow different for him because he was born Royal and isn't Diana?
oh Good heavens anyone would think that Charles and Di were massacring babies, when they made jokey speeches or danced or did a skit in public. Im sure you'd agree Curryong that NEITHER Of them was wrong to do any of these things.
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  #1633  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
yes,

No matter how many voices of reason state that both have their good and bad points, it always turns into fingerpointing by both camps

but surely that IS the point. Both of them had their faults and thier good points. Both of them made mistakes. But for some, Diana can do no wrong and for some, Charles can do no wrong and Diana - even when she did soemthing as harmless as a dance with a ballet dancer - is always in the wrong. So if I feel that one or the other is being criticised unfairly, I think it is only right to point to the fact that the other partner in the marriage ALSO did wrong things and very often the very Same wrong things..
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  #1634  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:54 AM
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How about a Queen getting involved in a stage production and appearing on stage? What happened with Diana and the ballet was well over two decades ago. This example is from the summer of 2016. Follow the link to starting at post #92 and you'll see a much beloved Queen "Daisy" Margrethe and her involvement in "Cinderella".

Queen Margrethe: Work as an Artist and Scenographer
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  #1635  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
How about a Queen getting involved in a stage production and appearing on stage? What happened with Diana and the ballet was well over two decades ago. This example is from the summer of 2016. Follow the link to starting at post #92 and you'll see a much beloved Queen "Daisy" Margrethe and her involvement in "Cinderella".

Queen Margrethe: Work as an Artist and Scenographer
Good point Osipi.
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  #1636  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:51 AM
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Osipi, thanks for this. in all honesty I simply cannot understand why people are criticising Diana for this. If she had taken part in a sexy film, or done pole dancing, I could. Many royals have taken to the stage usually for charity or fun. After all a lot of their role is a form of acting.. and many of them pal around with actors, singers, comedians etc.
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  #1637  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
oh Good heavens anyone would think that Charles and Di were massacring babies, when they made jokey speeches or danced or did a skit in public. Im sure you'd agree Curryong that NEITHER Of them was wrong to do any of these things.
I do agree that neither of them was wrong to appear on stage on that fun night. That post of mine you quoted was of my reply to Duc who criticised Diana as Princess of Wales in her dancing in precisely those words, which I quoted back to him with reference to Charles. After all, if the gander is to be criticised by Duc then I am entitled to question the goose's actions. He was talking about 'dignified Royal behaviour'!
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  #1638  
Old 06-27-2016, 07:25 AM
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Quite so. I can't see why it is wrong to say "if you are criticising X for doing so and so, then Y did something similar.. and therefore if X is to be blamed so should Y be."
It doesn't even have to be a gender propriety issue..if 2 men have both done soemthing stupid/wrong, i think one is entitled to say If say Charles is blamed for such and such, "well Prince X did something similar..."
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  #1639  
Old 06-28-2016, 11:39 PM
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I think Charles probably had returned to Cam by then. The exact date is always going to be argued about. I think that Diana (though not trying to woo Charles,) was trying to surprise him in a nice way, however.

Lee-Z has also remarked in her posts, as have Denville and others (including me) that there were faults on BOTH sides and BOTH marital partners made mistakes during this marriage from hell.
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  #1640  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I think Charles probably had returned to Cam by then. The exact date is always going to be argued about. I think that Diana (though not trying to woo Charles,) was trying to surprise him in a nice way, however.
I do not think Diana was trying to woo Charles but deliberately trying to upset him.

She had a reputation as a flirt and if anyone had moved on it was Diana.

Diana and Mannakee were already in a relationship. (Confirmed during the inquest but Charles may not have been aware of it in December of 1985.)

IMO, Charles and Diana had a falling out in 1983 because of her flirting or her affair/s but she and Charles made up in 1984 but she starting flirting again and that is what upset Charles.
(Depending on who you want to believe. She is supposed to have had an affair in 1983 with the Earl of Pembroke or Hewitt or both.)

The 'Shy Di' is just a myth. Diana flirted with all the men. I think that after a while Charles had had enough.

The dancing with Sleep was probably the last straw.
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