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  #1421  
Old 05-23-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
And because of moments like these I can understand how they could be friends.
I just think it's sad people don't talk about the good times this couple had. People can go on and on about the bad drama, but folks can't find some time to talk about their happy times as husband and wife. There's plenty there if people care enough to look.
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  #1422  
Old 05-23-2016, 05:58 PM
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As far as personal intrusions go, marriage within royal families (particularly the heir) are much more than private matters. They are issues of state.

Afterall that's the reason he couldn't marry Camilla in the first place and saved everyone a lot of grief.


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  #1423  
Old 05-23-2016, 06:29 PM
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Exactly. Hence my comment re the Archbishop of Canterbury.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
As far as personal intrusions go, marriage within royal families (particularly the heir) are much more than private matters. They are issues of state.
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  #1424  
Old 05-23-2016, 06:33 PM
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As far as relatives and friends discussing marriage to Diana with Charles there were dissenting voices, few it's true, but Charles wouldn't listen to them.

The Queen should have had a long heart to heart about Charles's feelings, IMO, (though I know it isn't her style) and I have read that she refused to express any personal preference to her son lest she influence his decision, which if true was quite ill-advised. Prince Philip wrote to him urging him to make up his mind and not dither lest Diana's reputation be compromised, which apparently Charles was annoyed about and chose to treat as an ultimatum.

However, there were friends that Charles didn't listen to. His friends Penny and Nicholas Romsey sensed huge incompatibility and approached Charles several times with their concerns. Penny in particular felt that Diana, a very young 19 year old, was treating things like becoming Princess of Wales as a fantasy from one of her step grandmother, Barbara Cartland's books. She and her husband tried to express their reservations, Penny being more blunt and forceful each time (according to the Diana biography by Sally Bedell Smith) only to have Charles, who had made up his mind by this time, become seriously annoyed.

It's always been my contention that the couple's engagement was media-driven. They wanted a beautiful princess and they wanted an engagement NOW. This couple, with a very large age gap and huge divergence in interests, hobbies and views on the world, should have had at least a year of dating before any betrothal. The media would have created an uproar, but so what. Better that than the tragedy that followed for all involved.

Charles also, as the more mature of the two, should have listened to his heart and to his inner doubts IMO, which we now know he had. We know that he wasn't really in love with Diana, not that head over heels, heart-stopping feeling that everyone should have going into a partnership with someone for life.

It's a great shame all round that, looking back on it now everything seemed to roll inexorably on to an engagement and marriage, with few people, still less the groom saying "Hold on though, what about....?"
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  #1425  
Old 05-23-2016, 06:51 PM
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Charles and Diana coming together was pure fate.
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  #1426  
Old 05-23-2016, 09:27 PM
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Diana wanted to marry Charles and chased after him.
Charles wanted to marry Diana and went after her.

Both claimed they had doubts before they married. If they had doubts they should had postponed the marriage or called it off. They went ahead with it and they have no one else to blame but themselves.

They were both adults.
If they were old enough to get married they were old enough to stand up and make the decision to cancel the wedding. Neither made the choice to cancel or postpone the marriage and they are both responsible for their own decision.

If they felt pressured/rushed into the marriage by the media or their family it was still their responsibility to make their own decision. They made the decision to get married. They should be adult enough to stand by their decision and not blame others when the marriage failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I've felt for a long time that the Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, who had meetings with them and detected an incompatibility, had a responsibility to go to HM and say, "Excuse me, Ma'am, but I don't think that this marriage is advisable." As the Queen's pastor, in effect, he had a right and an obligation to do that. Had the marriage been called off, people would have been disappointed, but life would have gone on. Britain had certainly survived worse.
Did the Archbishop of Canterbury speak with Charles and Diana prior to the marriage or only after?
I can only find articles that he spoke to them after the marriage.

If it is true the Archbishop of Canterbury felt this way before the marriage, then it was his responsibility to tell the couple that he felt they were not compatible and to refuse to marry them. After telling C&D, he should have informed the Queen that he was refusing to marry them because they were incompatible.

Most clergy refuse to marry couples that they counsel or meet with that they felt were incompatible.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Afterall that's the reason he couldn't marry Camilla in the first place and saved everyone a lot of grief.
Charles never proposed to Camilla.
The insinuation that Charles was not allowed to marry Camilla is nothing more than a vicious lie.
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  #1427  
Old 05-23-2016, 10:51 PM
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Vicious lie? Drama much?

I didn't say he ever proposed. It never got that far. We all know why.


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  #1428  
Old 05-23-2016, 11:48 PM
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I remember reading comments that Runcie had made about his impressions during pre-wedding talks. I can't remember the source at the moment, but I'll look around and post it if I can find it.

My husband's a clergyman. He's not had a situation of talking to people whom he thought were incompatible; however, there was a case when he found out after a marriage that the groom had been cheating on the bride for a while before the wedding. People in the community knew, but no-one told my husband. Of course, he was quite upset when he heard, because he wouldn't have married them had he known. The marriage, unsurprisingly, broke down due to infidelity on the husband's part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
If it is true the Archbishop of Canterbury felt this way before the marriage, then it was his responsibility to tell the couple that he felt they were not compatible and to refuse to marry them. After telling C&D, he should have informed the Queen that he was refusing to marry them because they were incompatible.

Most clergy refuse to marry couples that they counsel or meet with that they felt were incompatible.
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  #1429  
Old 05-24-2016, 12:44 AM
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I like how people in here who are putting blame on anyone but Charles and Di are forgetting that neither of them was likely to listen to any dissention. Not only do most couples "in love" not care to hear the facts but Charles and Diana had pressure put on them from themselves to make it work. Diana was desperate to marry him and Charles was desperate to marry someone who could fit the insane requirements.
While normal couples have until the I Do's Charles and Diana had until they made the announcement; for those around them that was the end and there was no going back.
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  #1430  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:36 AM
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Let's not forget the #1 reason not to call off the wedding. "Too late Duch, your face is already on the tea towels". Heaven forbid those merchandisers lost out out on a hefty profit.

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  #1431  
Old 05-24-2016, 02:46 AM
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I think the "Duch" remark was a joke by Diana's sisters, wasn't it, a throwaway line that was said (and who knows whether it really was said) to soothe away nerves about the wedding? I think if Diana's siblings had really thought she was in turmoil, fearing the Camilla bond or anything else, they would have encouraged her to break the engagement.

Of course if Diana had been really close to either of them she might have been able to confide in them earlier. However, she'd always had a combative sort of relationship with Sarah, with sibling rivalry involved, while Jane was married to Robert Fellowes.

If she had real worries about the relationship with Charles her mother would have been ideal to consult with. At that time though, I think the Shand Kydd's were busy settling themselves on a rural property in Australia.
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  #1432  
Old 05-24-2016, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I like how people in here who are putting blame on anyone but Charles and Di are forgetting that neither of them was likely to listen to any dissention. Not only do most couples "in love" not care to hear the facts but Charles and Diana had pressure put on them from themselves to make it work. Diana was desperate to marry him and Charles was desperate to marry someone who could fit the insane requirements.
I tend to agree. I mean many people, including King George VI were not at all thrilled to have Phillip marry the Queen, but they were in love and had a commitment towards each other and the monarchy; turns out the dissenters were wrong In that case.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...p-1563268.html

Charles and Diana knew that it was quick and they hardly knew each other and there were cracks early on. However, they each had their reasons to surge on. It's not anything to villify either for, but that was their responsibility.
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  #1433  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:12 PM
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Posts concerning the relationship between Charles and Camilla and speculative posts relating to the sexual past of a member of the Royal Family have been deleted. This thread is about Charles and Diana, not about Charles and Camilla, so please stay on topic. Please also maintain a degree of respect towards one another.
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  #1434  
Old 05-25-2016, 06:36 PM
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I ten

Charles and Diana knew that it was quick and they hardly knew each other and there were cracks early on. However, they each had their reasons to surge on. It's not anything to villify either for, but that was their responsibility.
I agree. I think that they had dated, if they felt that they didn't know each other that well, that was their choosing. Charles could have waited a bit longer, or made time to see Diana more frequently, I think he was under pressure, because the public and his family WERE keen on Diana, and felt it was time to get him married and there was an element of thinking that if he had to marry a virgin (And I think he did), then if he let Diana go, was the next girl going to be even younger and a bigger age gap..
And there had been so much interest in the whole thing, that the RF problaby genuinely felt "we can't stand this going on for much longer and we dont want Diana to be kept waiting either..."
I dont see that it was anyone else's responsibility to tell him or her that it wasn't a good marriage, or whatever. I think that if his friends DID tell him so, he wasn't listening which is pretty typical of most people when they want to do something. They do it and ignore the stuff from friends or family (or clergymen).
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  #1435  
Old 05-25-2016, 10:21 PM
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The media pressure on Diana was tremendous and that was another reason for the 'hurry up' decision. He had to fish or cut bait.

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  #1436  
Old 05-26-2016, 02:12 AM
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well yes, The RF didn't wnat Diana to be subjected to that for longer.. and so I thtink it was a tragedy that could not have been avoided. If Diana had been more mature, she would have realised that she was not really interested in the same things that the RF are into... but she was immature, she was eager to marry well, because her upbringing had left her feeling that that was the only way she could fulfil herself -a socially prominent marriage, children and the security of being with a man who couldn't get a divorce. So i think she ignored any signs that she and Charles weren't compatible, and he too ignore them becuase he wanted to get his marriage sorted out. So when people say that "if they had known each other longer, they would't have married" iM not so sure. I think that the circumstances were such taht they COULD not have a much longer courtship and even if they could i think that Diana certainly would have gone on fooling herself.. becuase both of them for different reasons really wanted the marriage.
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  #1437  
Old 05-27-2016, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I think the "Duch" remark was a joke by Diana's sisters, wasn't it, a throwaway line that was said (and who knows whether it really was said) to soothe away nerves about the wedding? I think if Diana's siblings had really thought she was in turmoil, fearing the Camilla bond or anything else, they would have encouraged her to break the engagement.

O
I dont know if it was really said. I am suspicious of pretty much everything that Diana told Morton. But I dont believe that her sisters or anyone woudl have encouraged her to break the engagement for anything less than finding out something really terrible about C's character. It just would not be done.. and I dont beleive that they would consider his possibly still being in love with an old girlfriend as serious enough. As for her mother I don't believe she was close enough to her to ask for help, or at least if she had, Frances probalby wouldn't have been much help..
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  #1438  
Old 05-27-2016, 05:15 AM
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I dont know if it was really said. I am suspicious of pretty much everything that Diana told Morton. But I dont believe that her sisters or anyone woudl have encouraged her to break the engagement for anything less than finding out something really terrible about C's character. It just would not be done.. and I dont beleive that they would consider his possibly still being in love with an old girlfriend as serious enough. As for her mother I don't believe she was close enough to her to ask for help, or at least if she had, Frances probalby wouldn't have been much help..
I believe Diana went to Australia for a few weeks with her mother and stepfather during the courting period. IIRC, Charles proposed to Diana but wanted her to take time before answering so that trip to Australia for about 2 1/2 weeks gave her time to think and being spent with her mother, they had plenty of time to talk about things.

If anyone knew Charles enough to advise Diana, it would have been her sister Sarah. Another person that could have been very much in the confidence of Diana leading up to the announcement of their engagement is none other than Countess Spencer (Raine). In 2012, two letters from that period went up for sale in auction by a private seller which hints at Diana's misgivings at the time.

Mysterious 'she’ who troubled Princess Diana before her marriage - Telegraph
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  #1439  
Old 05-27-2016, 11:31 AM
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Gosh Di's letter style to Raine is very gushy isn't it, considering that she later pushed her and previously had been furious with her father for marrying R. and it kind of demolishes the belief that Diana ddi not know about Camilla until she was engaged to Charles and so not able to break off the relationship.
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  #1440  
Old 05-27-2016, 12:25 PM
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Gosh Di's letter style to Raine is very gushy isn't it, considering that she later pushed her and previously had been furious with her father for marrying R. and it kind of demolishes the belief that Diana ddi not know about Camilla until she was engaged to Charles and so not able to break off the relationship.
I think Diana's relationship was and on and off thing over the years. When Johnny and Raine married in 1976, Diana was in her mid teens and I think all 4 of the Spencer children didn't like the idea of Daddy marrying Raine. It does look like things warmed up between them though and probably stayed that way until Raine wouldn't allow the Spencer children to see their father when he became so deathly ill and in coma. At lot of Johnny's recovery from that is credited to Raine for her insistence on how his medical care was handled.

I have always thought that Diana knew how close Charles and Camilla were from the beginning but I don't think we'll ever know just how intimate that relationship was leading up to the wedding in 1981 and just how much Diana knew. I do believe that at the onset of the courting period, Charles and Diana did interact a bit with the Parker-Bowles which was totally normal as Andrew and Camilla were part of Charles' social circle of friends.
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