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  #1361  
Old 05-08-2016, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The editor of The Sun newspaper disclosed that for nearly a decade from 1982 he would phone Camilla regularly and receive information from Charles's side of things, Charles's POV.
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And Camilla never dropped poison about Diana in any of her phone calls with the Sun News editor for the ten years she and he were in regular communication? She also constantly praised Diana to Charles whenever they were together? Yes, I can really believe that!
There is no proof that Camilla talked to the Sun reporter for 10 years. Infact the Sun reporter denied this and never mentioned Diana.

His quote:
I have known Camilla Parker Bowles off and on for the past 20 years. We have met three times and spoken on the telephone an embarrassing number of times. Usually it was me doing the talking and her doing the wriggling.

It is a true testimony to her discretion and to her loyalty that she has hardly ever told me anything. She has occasionally guided me, perhaps misled me and sometimes even pumped me into telling her what was the latest rumour or gossip.


No where does he say Diana or Charles.

Stuart Higgins knew Camilla from the 1970s. Camilla's brother was dating famous women.
Again people keep forgetting about Camilla's family.


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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Fact-- Camilla was a married woman. She intruded into Charles's unhappy marriage as a third party and slept with him while he was married to Diana. He intruded into her marriage as a third party (even though Andrew Parker Bowles was his friend) and slept with his friend's wife.

Diana is out of it when we discuss Charles and Camilla's behaviour, as we are all responsible for our own conduct respecting others.

If you consider Charles's and Camilla's adultery, which involved four children and broke two marriages was acceptable, OK, but if what Diana did was terrible in the eyes of many here, don't let's wrap Camilla and Charles's reprehensible behaviour in a pretty pink bow and make excuses for it.
Why is Diana out of her own marriage? She cheated on Charles and took 50% of the blame. Yet her affairs which by most reliable people started before Charles'. Her relationship with men were noted in the press through out her marriage long before Charles was linked with anyone.


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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Can I just say that i hope that Charles and Diana's children and grandchildren never read this thread; if people talked about my parents this way without any of them personally knowing my parents or the complete facts, I'd be really really angry...

just my 2cts
Again what about Camilla's family, children and grandchildren.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Duch_Luver_4ever View Post
A BP staffer saw her open the F&G present, palace staffers arranged the lunch before the wedding, etc...., why did Andrew Parker-Bowles feel the need to get divorced, if not for the public cuckolding he received as a result of the Dimbleby interview?
Again other people have lives. Andrew Parker Bowles wanted to marry Rosemary. Her marriage dissolved in 1991 and her husband remarried.

Prince Charles gave all the people in his life gifts. If he had a relationship with Lady Sarah Keswick rather than Camilla, I am sure we would have found out which gift he had given Sarah and not which gifts he had given Camilla.
Also most people do give birthday gifts to friends. Camilla's birthday is July 17th.

The timeline and reliable sources always point to C&C beginning a romantic relationship in 1988.

Patti Palmer-Tomkinson said she contacted Camilla in 1986 (IIRC it was in November) and told her to get in touch with Charles because he was depressed. Camilla wrote him a letter. Charles and Camilla exchanged letters and then started speaking on the phone before meeting in person and then their relationship turned intimate.

This matches with Gerald Ward's version that C&C were not in touch.

IMO, Charles wanted Camilla and had Gerald and APB help. Andrew was in a relationship with someone else so helping find a suitable partner for his wife was the gentlemanly thing to do.
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  #1362  
Old 05-08-2016, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Can I just say that i hope that Charles and Diana's children and grandchildren never read this thread; if people talked about my parents this way without any of them personally knowing my parents or the complete facts, I'd be really really angry...

just my 2cts
Agreed. It must be so embarrassing, downright hurtful, and infuriating to hear people debate something they have no first-hand experience with and deciding who the 'good' person was and who the 'bad' guy was. I don't believe they do think about it often to be honest.
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  #1363  
Old 05-08-2016, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Camilla had a family, but both her children were sent away to boarding school as children. Tom in particular has said he was sent away early.
Some reports states Laura did not go to boarding school.

The boarding school that Laura went to only accepts children 10 years or older. Laura turn 10 in 1988.

Another thing that points to 1988 as the start of C&C's relationship.
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  #1364  
Old 05-08-2016, 12:27 PM
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As someone earlier mentioned a book by a valet in service to the PoW and his tenure as a member of the Wales household early in the marriage, the book is "Royal Service: My Ten Years As Valet To Prince Charles" by Stephen Barry.

It keeps cropping up about the fact that very early on in the marriage, Diana did some housecleaning and removed staff and friends that were close to Charles. Not sure about the dog. To me, this action so early on in the marriage shows me that Diana was very insecure in her relationship with her husband and felt threatened by anyone who might have a closer relationship and understanding of a man whom she believed should put her first and foremost in his life about everything. Charles was able to keep and maintain a close friendship with the Parker-Bowles after Camilla married Andrew and IIRC, Charles also enlisted the aid of Camilla to help Diana adjust to the idea of royal marriage after the engagement. Charles' circle of friends was drastically culled after the marriage. Diana resented the staff whose job was to "do" for Charles as she felt it was "her job now". I could stretch this a bit further and say that I've seen evidence that Diana also resented the Prince of Wales job as it took him away from her far more than she liked. In short, I think these resentments from the beginning were the seeds that eventually strangled the marriage. It happens.

Over the years as they grew further and further apart, from experience I can tell you that they became more and more what marriage counselors call "married singles". Each gravitated to their own personal lives and more and more the marriage, in reality, was one "in name only".

There is no fault to lay at any one person's door as they both did what they felt was right at the time although a huge mistake was to let the public in on it. Sometimes I think the "War of the Wales" was perhaps the world's first glimpse into reality shows. Rather than having there be "Diana's side" and "Charles' side" and a cast of external characters playing a role, perhaps we should be as a marriage counselor is trained to be and look at the marriage itself to see where the cracks were.
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  #1365  
Old 05-08-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Again what about Camilla's family, children and grandchildren.
I feel exactly the same about/for Camilla and her family, but as this thread is about Charles and Diana, I didn't mention Camilla...
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  #1366  
Old 05-08-2016, 01:47 PM
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Could we get back on topic and try to avoid going off onto needless tangents? It would also be appreciated if we could avoid getting snarky with one another by using a discussion thread to promote one royal whilst dismissing another - it dimishes the enjoyment of others reading the thread. Thank you.
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  #1367  
Old 05-08-2016, 04:32 PM
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I believe that the faculty and staff at the boys' school attempted to limit their access to newspapers, magazines, and television during the War of the Wales. It's a shame that their parents lost sight of the fact that their sons would be impacted by their remarks to the press regarding the state of their marriage.
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  #1368  
Old 05-08-2016, 04:34 PM
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^True. It really is a shame when parents lose themselves in their own problems and forget that their role as parents should always take precedence when the children are being raised.
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  #1369  
Old 05-08-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HistoryGirl View Post
I think the most damaging thing was not what she did to the monarchy, even though it was substantial, but the lack of awareness as to what giving that interview and inviting the press into her marriage would do to her children. He media were already speculating, Diana and Charles were both quite immature, in my opinion, for stoking the fires so to speak.
I agree theres lots of blame for both of them there, separation and divorce bring out the worst in people, and royals are no exception. But with the palace & others lying to us for almost a decade about the marriage, it left Diana few options.

I think Charles should have taken a page out of the Queens book and stayed quiet, the Dimbleby book and interview were a disaster for him, the BRF was always playing catch up when it comes to media, and silence would have given them the chance for Diana to make a misstep and shoot herself in the foot.
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  #1370  
Old 05-08-2016, 04:52 PM
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It is a really tough situation, however, she did have other options. Keeping quiet and divorcing him was one. I think the press would've outed the affair eventually. I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't care less whether they 'lied' about their marriage. I'm rather traditional with that stuff though. I believe that it's not anyone's business what happens between people in a marriage, good or bad. However, I can see that some people feel exceedingly attached to public figures and want to know everything about them.
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  #1371  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:03 PM
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It would have been interesting to see if the affair would have been outed before she could have divorced him. People forget sometimes that for most of the marriage it was the opinion that they couldn't get divorced, that it would trigger the whole abdication crisis like Edward the VIII. Also she desperately didn't want to get divorced with her family history, it was the Queen that pretty much forced them into it.

Shame that she hadn't used her regal power earlier in the marriage to straighten them out.

Thats why I think the "War of the Wales" got so ugly, everyone thought they were stuck in the situation, so I think they underestimated how much damage could be done in the press, and it was only at the end, once it as bad as it did, did they determine that divorce had to be better than this.
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  #1372  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:08 PM
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^Youre right. I think a good rule of thumb to remember is that when it comes to the personal, involving the press is always a bad idea.
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  #1373  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duch_Luver_4ever View Post
Also she desperately didn't want to get divorced with her family history, it was the Queen that pretty much forced them into it.
Source please? Like an actually quote from a book or link to a news article please.
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  #1374  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:24 PM
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I definitely recall reading in various sources that after the Panorama interview, the Queen had had enough and advised both Charles and Diana to divorce. The one source that I could come up with is from the NY Times dated December 20, 1995.

Queen Urges Prince Charles And Diana to Divorce Soon - NYTimes.com
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  #1375  
Old 05-08-2016, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I definitely recall reading in various sources that after the Panorama interview, the Queen had had enough and advised both Charles and Diana to divorce. The one source that I could come up with is from the NY Times dated December 20, 1995.

Queen Urges Prince Charles And Diana to Divorce Soon - NYTimes.com

Yes, I read the same thing.
Diana didn't want a divorce but the whole interview backlash backed her into a corner, and the Queen decided enough was enough.

And really, two of her other children (and her sister) had divorced, and the monarchy hadn't crumbled; she was probably right that a divorce couldn't possible make things worse. Everything did calm down once it happened.
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  #1376  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:14 PM
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When the prime-minister of the day, John Major, announced in Parliament that Charles and Diana were to separate, I recall his statement saying that there was not plan/intention to divorce and that their constitutional roles remain unaffected:

A Day That Shook The World: Charles and Diana separate | History | Lifestyle | The Independent

Heaven knows what was going on between the separation and the eventual divorce, but for whatever reason Charles and Diana seemed reluctant to take the next step by divorcing until after the Panorama interview when it became quite obvious that the "towards zero" moment had arrived and there was really no option for them.

There were newspaper reports at the time using phrases such as "Queen asks/tells them to divorce" etc and the impression I got was that she was fed up with it all and that it was in everyone's best interests (not least of all the British public suffering under mountains of speculation from the media).
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  #1377  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:20 PM
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Diana did not want the divorce and the Queen "ordered" it but at the same time Diana's actions contributed greatly to the Queen making that decision. IIRC Charles wanted a divorce and had been lobbying his mother for years for her approval to get a divorce, I doubt if Diana was unaware of this. I suspect that Diana thought that she was "safe" from the Queen granting Charles' wish because he was the heir but then it turns out that was a big miscalculation on her part.
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  #1378  
Old 05-08-2016, 06:31 PM
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Thanks Osipi, Mirabel and Jack!

I don't often stray into this discussion :)
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  #1379  
Old 05-08-2016, 08:28 PM
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JMO, but at some point I think we all realized there was not a path forward without divorce. Both clearly were heading in directions that had nothing to do with the other and both clearly wanted to have relationships with others going forward.
While the feud between them had abated somewhat, and they were united behind the boys, they were completely out of one another's worlds. They had simply married the wrong person. The Queen's announcement acknowledged that.
And the only way for either to move forward was without the other. A shame that they had married, but there it was.
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  #1380  
Old 05-08-2016, 09:36 PM
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Diana Charles or both of them impacted their children with the use of the media. I think its telling that William doesn't parade his kids in front of a crop of photographers in his play area. Most of the photos of the kids are taken by their mother or by one person not a large group.
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