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  #1221  
Old 07-12-2015, 08:57 PM
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Okay, a few more comments.

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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
Totally agree! I wonder if he though her youth and starry eyed naivete would make her blind to it. Does he or Camilla ever contemplate on this part of their past? What a massive impact that made.
If we take out Diana's retrospective coloring of the past, you forget that Camilla was really doing everything to receive Diana into Charles' circle of friends. That's what Camilla was doing, as were other friends of Charles', who were just enough older to be of another generational stream. A gift to a friend for being a friend like he gave to many friends was not a signal of unusual intimacy or significance to those who knew Charles. That circle of friends thought they were receiving Diana into their midst. Little did they bargain that Diana would banish them, and Charles would comply.

What is more likely is that Camilla felt kicked in the teeth. Recall that Camilla (by the time Diana outed Camilla) really was in an affair with Charles, and there had been a confrontation at a party.

Diana was obsessed with what people thought of her. As is always stated, she was a people-pleaser. I have long had the suspicion that Diana's alleged discomfort with Charles' 'whatever love is' comment to be about the crack in the image, not about Charles' real feelings. She knew he lusted for her. She knew she had him in thrall at that point. She didn't like (I think) the suggestion that it was anything else but what she wanted it to appear to the world, her triumph. (It did put the match-up in a strange light, I will grant you that. Charles evidencing a bit of his father's foot-in-mouth disease, methinks). Same with the astonishing confrontation at the party. Camilla with Charles and others drinking and conversing obviously away from her was what scalded, I think. She had banished all the friends, and here they were, back again, and in force, etc..

Because I believe that Charles, given what we know of his character, likely behaved honorably in the early days of the marriage, and because I think the same degree of good sense likely governed Camilla's behavior, too, I don't think either of them have anything to reproach themselves for. IMO.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
They didn't spend much time together alone at all before marrying...he either ignored some of the negatives or he thought things would smooth out after all the hoopla was over. Easy enough to write off some of the warning signs as due to the intense media pressure and I am sure that played a role as well.
They spent enough time, especially sexually. Charles could never have cancelled the engagement once it was announced. It's been suggested that Charles had second thoughts. At the altar he definitely showed indications of being stressed. The expressions in general on the faces of the BRF were somber in the extreme that day in the church. No one looked very happy.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I kinda think Charles was probably a selfish and/or self centered person when he was younger...and I think he was way in over his head trying to handle someone like Diana. Easier to just put some distance between you and try to muddle along the best you can. He just didn't reckon with the fact that Diana couldn't handle that.
That's the spin. He is definitely royal. He was the heir, after all. It's unlikely he transcended his upbringing and royal conditioning by the stroke of marriage. He experiences himself as always the center of every action, that has to have a consequence. However, temper notwithstanding, reports about him (from servants) paint him as a man of sensitivity, gentleness and caring. Whatever kind of man Diana married, she had not married a brute.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think she tried out the 'traditional' upper crust marriage where you have the heirs then are free to pursue you own interests as long as you keep up appearances and are discreet, but it didn't work for her...she didn't marry the only man who couldn't divorce her in order to end up in a pretend marriage. LaRae
I think it's hard to say what was working for Diana since many of her actions, especially vis-a-vis the press, were initiated to protect her image as Princess of Wales. I think she was fine with a 'pretend marriage' until it was in her best interests to spin it otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I don't think that they entered the marriage with the intent to hurt the other, or to even have reckless disregard for the other.
Exactly so.

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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
If Diana fell in love with Charles it was because he was her ticket to becoming a Princess/Queen, if Charles was just some rich guy in her social circle, Diana would not have given him the time of day.
Afraid so. (Poor Charles) I am reading a book right now that goes into the fact that Diana was actually 'meant' for Andrew. It was with Amanda Knatchbull declining, and then the fiasco with Anna Wallace, that opened up the possibility of Charles for Diana.

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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Again there was something there there with Charles and Camilla, but why did Diana feel the need to make public that "there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded" when she did it. She started cooperating with the Morton book in 1991, at that point she had overcome her bulimia, she and Charles had been living separate lives and she had had three extra-marital, although not necessarily sexual, dalliances - the RPO, James Hewitt and James Gilbey. Perhaps she still had a problem with Charles and Camilla but was she as consumed and bothered by their relationship as she wanted people to believe? My theory is that at that point what Diana was really consumed with was her public image, and when it seemed like her extra-marital dalliances or other negative/scandalous things may become public, she made a preemptive strike and exposed negative things about her marriage and life as a royal to lay the groundwork in the event any misdeeds on her part became public and she wanted it to be deemed that she was in an untenable situation and victimized.
Bingo! That was it exactly. She was laying the groundwork to 'explain away' and excuse the fact that the wife of the British heir to the throne was, in effect, 'sleeping around'. She initiated a diversionary action that proved wildly successful. She gauged the public's gullibility to perfection and calibrated her stories to pitch-perfect delivery. All her life she needed only to smile and she could wrest her way. She did it with the vast majority (or a significant slice) of the British public then, and even still.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
1991 was when she dumped James Hewitt so the idea that he could get involved in a 'tell-all' book unless she got her version of events out there first to divert attention from her own affair/s is a good presumption.
The tabloids were circling. Rumors were rife. Royal servants may sign privacy agreements but they do talk amongst themselves. Tittle-tattle made the rounds. It was only a matter of time before the seamy details broke surface.
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  #1222  
Old 07-12-2015, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
People on Diana's side ignore how painful it must have been for Charles to be married to woman who was not truthful and could not be intimate with him. (If you love someone you should be honest with them.)

They tend to minimize the impact of her affairs had on Charles and how devastating it was to him, both as a man and as POW to have a wife that was unfaithful.

We do not know who broke their wedding vows first.
The sheer scandal of the adultery, were it to ever break, must have made Charles quake. This was his wife, the Princess of Wales, the future Queen. Would there have been a constitutional crisis? The scandal breaking in any other way than the way Diana shepherded it into the public's consciousness, could this have toppled the monarchy? Had the response to the knowledge of Diana's adultery, to the extent that paternity of one of her sons could be questioned, have turned on Diana in such a way that divorce would have been demanded by the public?

It always amuses (even though it's sad) that Diana completely took the onus off of herself. It was really a very neat trick. Diana knew how to survive, if nothing else.
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  #1223  
Old 07-12-2015, 09:28 PM
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It always amuses (even though it's sad) that Diana completely took the onus off of herself. It was really a very neat trick. Diana knew how to survive, if nothing else.


She'd learned that early on....very young.



LaRae
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  #1224  
Old 07-12-2015, 10:09 PM
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There's some evidence that Charles and Camilla were 'more than friends' in 1980. Andrew Parker-Bowles was Aide-de-Camp to Lord Soames, when the latter was Governor-General of southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1979. When Zimbabwe became independent, Prince Charles was at the independence ceremonies, with Camilla as his hostess. By this time, Andrew Parker-Bowles had returned to the UK. According to Tina Brown, Charles and Camilla spent their time on the flight in a private cabin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
"Emotional affair" is a biased phrase. Charles and Camilla were friends. And here we are. This is the stuff of novels, of plays, of conjecture. Human nature. There is no 'truth' here. Only facts, subject to interpretation. Character. Known habits. Motivations and intentions are difficult to assess. Inevitably, there will be different riffs on the theme.
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  #1225  
Old 07-13-2015, 12:04 AM
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Wow!
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  #1226  
Old 07-13-2015, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
There's some evidence that Charles and Camilla were 'more than friends' in 1980. Andrew Parker-Bowles was Aide-de-Camp to Lord Soames, when the latter was Governor-General of southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1979. When Zimbabwe became independent, Prince Charles was at the independence ceremonies, with Camilla as his hostess. By this time, Andrew Parker-Bowles had returned to the UK. According to Tina Brown, Charles and Camilla spent their time on the flight in a private cabin.
There is a very simple explanation.

They were friends.

Camilla helped Charles during his despondency in 1979/1980 when Lord Mountbatten was killed.

Lord Mountbatten was killed on August 27, 1979.

Charles returned the favor on/around April 15, 1980.

Andrew Parker Bowles was having an affair with Charlotte Hambro the daughter of Lord Christopher Soames. Andrew was already in Rhodesia and Charlotte joined Andrew.

Camilla needed an excuse and passage to Rhodesia and Charles was willing to help.

When Camilla arrived to Rhodesia, Charlotte's mother sent Charlotte back to the U.K.

fyi, Charlotte's daughter attended the day care where Diana worked. Diana made Charlotte's daughter a bridesmaid.
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  #1227  
Old 07-13-2015, 12:28 AM
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Clearly these Xs should not have ever been friends, especially if one's partner is threatened by the relationship, which in this case, turned out to be true.
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  #1228  
Old 07-13-2015, 01:31 AM
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When the marriage broke up, Charles resumes his friendship. After a year or so the friendship turned romantic.
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  #1229  
Old 07-14-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
When the marriage broke up, Charles resumes his friendship. After a year or so the friendship turned romantic.
Then why was Camilla having weekly phone calls with a tabloid reporter about the marriage of Charles and Diana beginning in 1982 and ending in 1992 if there was no involvement between Charles and Camilla?
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  #1230  
Old 07-14-2015, 04:21 PM
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Let's stay on topic which is Charles and Diana...not Camilla.
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  #1231  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:26 AM
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The problem with the marriage was Diana abandoned Charles from the beginning.

While on their honeymoon on Britannia, Charles asked Diana to share his interest in reading, Diana instead when downstairs to socialized with all the male crew.

Diana should have read with Charles. She could have asked Charles to read to her or they could have taken turns reading to each other. After a few pages Diana could have asked Charles to take a swim or a walk or just to talk to get to know each other better but instead Diana abandoned her husband and went downstairs to socialize with a bunch of men.

Diana's supporters blame Charles but Diana physically removed herself from the marriage from the start.
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  #1232  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:47 AM
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So, it's completely out of the question that Charles make more of an effort to make his 20 year old bride happy on their honeymoon and try to do the types of things that they could enjoy TOGETHER??

The idea that Diana abandoned Charles on the honeymoon is imaginative bordering on bizarre. There are TWO people in a marriage and on a honeymoon...not one!!
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  #1233  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:53 AM
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She is the one that left him and went down stairs to talk to the crew.

Diana could have made the effort. I did say only read a few pages before asking him to do something she wanted to do.

She abandoned him.

What do call a bride that leaves her husband on her honeymoon to socialize with other men?
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  #1234  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:18 AM
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Well, I for one was not on the honeymoon with Charles and Diana and so have no idea what actually happened on it and can only go on hearsay.
But one thing is for sure: reading a book, taking turns in reading a book or having a book read to me would not be on my top list of things to do.
I guess if my new spouse wanted to do that sort of thing, my choice would have been to either sit there quietly in silence looking every inch the demure, pleasing bride, contemplating where to warm my husband's slippers or I'd have gone off to find someone else to talk to, as I was only 20 years old, never been on a cruise before, never been married before and it was all a little bit too exciting to be cooped up reading a book.
Being an understanding wife is something one has to become after a good few years of marriage, not on a honeymoon!
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  #1235  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:44 AM
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Er yes...my husband is older than I am and was almost 30 when we married...I was 21...the last thing he wanted to do on the honeymoon was expect me to read Kant (or anything else for that matter).

I figure that in hindsight Charles is aware of how badly he handled things at the beginning of his marriage.

William has learned from the mistakes of his parents.



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  #1236  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
The problem with the marriage was Diana abandoned Charles from the beginning.

While on their honeymoon on Britannia, Charles asked Diana to share his interest in reading, Diana instead when downstairs to socialized with all the male crew.

Diana should have read with Charles. She could have asked Charles to read to her or they could have taken turns reading to each other. After a few pages Diana could have asked Charles to take a swim or a walk or just to talk to get to know each other better but instead Diana abandoned her husband and went downstairs to socialize with a bunch of men.

Diana's supporters blame Charles but Diana physically removed herself from the marriage from the start.
So, Charles bored his bride to the point that she had to seek the company of the staff. A 32-year-old man, on his honeymoon with the most famous, sought after young woman in the world, wants to read rather than, oh, take a bubble bath together, feed each other grapes, cuddle, make love, etc. No, he wanted to read a book.
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  #1237  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:23 AM
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Does this thread really need to exist?


The War of the Wales' is long over: the couple in question divorced nearly 20 years ago, one of them has been dead for nearly 18 years, the other one has been happily married for over 10 years, the children of the first marriage seem to have adjusted well to the situation. There is really no new information coming through, just a rehashing of heresay, and any conjecture from books and articles.
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  #1238  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:24 AM
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Wherefore their marriage did not go well because of a book? What a misfortune
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  #1239  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:45 AM
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Does this thread really need to exist?


The War of the Wales' is long over: the couple in question divorced nearly 20 years ago, one of them has been dead for nearly 18 years, the other one has been happily married for over 10 years, the children of the first marriage seem to have adjusted well to the situation. There is really no new information coming through, just a rehashing of heresay, and any conjecture from books and articles.
That is the most sensible comment I've read on this subject.
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  #1240  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:52 AM
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Does this thread really need to exist?


The War of the Wales' is long over: the couple in question divorced nearly 20 years ago, one of them has been dead for nearly 18 years, the other one has been happily married for over 10 years, the children of the first marriage seem to have adjusted well to the situation. There is really no new information coming through, just a rehashing of heresay, and any conjecture from books and articles.
Amen! I can not believe that even the honeymoon and the fact that the one maybe wanted to read a book and the other wanted to do something else has been dragged in all this...

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