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  #1121  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I may be wrong, but I've always felt that Diana regretted the divorce.
I've read it was the Queen who finally said Enough! And told them to divorce and be done with it.
But I don't think Diana expected that, and I think she did come to regret it in later years.

(I still think Lacey was correct when he claimed he could see her spiraling down after the divorce).
I agree with your views here. It has been stated, and I agree, that Diana over-played her hand with the Panorama Interview. She apparently even said she regretted the interview to a friend. Very, very sad. Life without the warmth of the royal family's entrée around her must have been a surprise. She hadn't been aware of how royal she had become. It's quite a story. It is fascinating (in a train wreck kind of way, unfortunately). An English friend told me that with the divorce social doors were closed to Diana. Can anyone here confirm that? She had not understood that would happen, or if she had an understanding of the social rules, she was sufficiently impressed with her public reception to think social sanctions wouldn't apply to her in the personal realm. Yet they did. A case of post hoc ergo post propter hoc applying. With her walking away from the heir, she walked away from everything. Ouch!

One of the strangest aspects of the whole story of her last years was the support Charles gave her, always available for her by phone, making things happen for her, even though they were no longer married, and her own brother refusing her a house on the family estate. That meant that she had her London home but no country home for the weekends, which would have been normal at her status. It's always puzzled me, this glaring contrast of continuing solicitation from Charles and cold-hearted exclusion by her brother. The brother shut the social door along with everyone else. Yet at the funeral, the brother ranted against the BRF, but he himself was a cause of great heartache for his sister, the hapless Diana, at a time she needed family, if ever she needed family. The word I have for her brother is not printable.

The above is perhaps out of bounds of the thread (her brother), but I am interested in the final years between Charles and Diana. I've heard two versions, that there was a rapprochement between them, but that it quickly 'went south'. I have also read that Charles made himself available for her by phone whenever she called right to the end. Anyone have any sources that describe this phase? It always seems to me that when I look and consider that time in her life she was greatly alone and 'at sea'. A very sad figure, starting to try too hard. I can't imagine what her future would have looked like.
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  #1122  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:16 AM
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What sources do you have about Charles being available to her whenever


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  #1123  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:28 AM
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What sources do you have about Charles being available to her whenever.
I have read about 3 to 4 books, maybe 5, on Diana (and Charles) in total. I have come across the statements about Charles' support of Diana in the final years a few times. (I am wondering if I actually read it here on this chat site. I was reading here before I signed up to post). I believe it comes from one of her friends who talked about it. It makes sense that Charles would have been solicitous of her. After all, she was the mother of his children, if for only that reason, but I have the impression it went further. Not that they would have remarried, but that Charles and she were really connecting as friends, but then it soured. Anyone know the story?
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  #1124  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:36 AM
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There was talk about it but also talk about him not helping her at all.
There are so many books and it depends if they were written with the help of her friends or his friends and what you want to believe. Everyone that writes a book would have you believe that they have the real story. He was never public in support of her


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  #1125  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
There was talk about it but also talk about him not helping her at all.
By who? I've never heard that. On the face of it, it makes no sense. It was her brother who was the mean one.

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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
There are so many books and it depends if they were written with the help of her friends or his friends and what you want to believe. Everyone that writes a book would have you believe that they have the real story.
The difference is I am not a partisan. I can read a book dispassionately. Further, it was my mother who indicated certain books were pivotal, and in 2 or 3 instances I followed her recommendation, but all-in-all, every book, I have found, has aspects of the story. The truth sifts out.

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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
He was never public in support of her.
He conducted himself in public without fault it seems to me, considering the strains he was under. What should he have done, how should he have behaved, to convey the sense that he supported her? (I dare ask).
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  #1126  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
He was never public in support of her.
Why would he [or any man] be ?

She publicly trashed his behaviour and character before a GLOBAL television audience, and questioned his suitability for the throne.. Things that All divorcing couples would prefer to remain private, were aired by her [without thought to their childrens feelings..].

She behaved appallingly, and if Charles extended support to her in her final years it says a great deal about his ability to forgive, and the magnaminity of his character.
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  #1127  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:30 AM
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I am replying to post about books that have been read

Tell me what books you have read that you have got your views from.
I have lived though the times of which we are talking


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
By who? I've never heard that. On the face of it, it makes no sense. It was her brother who was the mean one.



The difference is I am not a partisan. I can read a book dispassionately. Further, it was my mother who indicated certain books were pivotal, and in 2 or 3 instances I followed her recommendation, but all-in-all, every book, I have found, has aspects of the story. The truth sifts out.



He conducted himself in public without fault it seems to me, considering the strains he was under. What should he have done, how should he have behaved, to convey the sense that he supported her? (I dare ask).

You are saying he supported her I'm asking how you know he supported her if he didn't do it in public


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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Why would he [or any man] be ?

She publicly trashed his behaviour and character before a GLOBAL telivision audience, and questioned his suitability for the throne.. Things that All divorcing couples would prefer to remain private, were aired by her [without thought to their childrens feelings..].

She behaved appallingly, and if Charles extended support to her in her final years it says a great deal about his ability to forgive, and the magnaminity of his character.

He behaved appallingly too but used his " friends " to do the dirty work
But I'm not going to go on with this because it gets us nowhere and it seems some people read a couple of books and become experts


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  #1128  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:11 AM
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And with that I think it is time to move the discussion on. If anyone wishes to continue debating which books have or have not been read and who is right in their point of view, they can do it by Private Message
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  #1129  
Old 02-08-2015, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
You are saying he supported her I'm asking how you know he supported her if he didn't do it in public
In this respect, I think we have a pretty good example of Charles' public support of his ex-wife in how he acted and reacted when the accident in Paris occurred. I don't think that if there was animosity or loathing between Charles and Diana that Charles would have gone to Paris and was with her being transported back to the UK. To me, he acted above and beyond what would be expected of an ex-husband.

They both very much agreed on things is regards to their sons and I find it easy to believe that they were on friendly terms towards the end.
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  #1130  
Old 02-08-2015, 09:20 AM
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Let's see some images of the careless Charles :

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...11_634x564.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1583907/th...S-DI-570.jpg?1

http://webpage.pace.edu/nreagin/temp.../5/diana13.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3a1aba2040.jpg

And of course this too soon forgotten speach :




It was not the love of the century for sure. But at least they tried their best to build something and had two wonderful sons. I think they were happy together at some point, but not in love. It just did'nt work,that's all, like millions of couple and it's not because they were a very public one that makes a diference.
To say that he was never supportive is like to say she was never in love. We simply don't know and we 'll probably never know.
They were both responsible fot the failure of their marriage. Like every couple.
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  #1131  
Old 02-08-2015, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Why would he [or any man] be ?

She publicly trashed his behaviour and character before a GLOBAL television audience, and questioned his suitability for the throne.. Things that All divorcing couples would prefer to remain private, were aired by her [without thought to their childrens feelings..].

She behaved appallingly, and if Charles extended support to her in her final years it says a great deal about his ability to forgive, and the magnaminity of his character.
Exactly how I have seen it. The mitigating factor for him, I think (speculation, but makes sense) was that knowing her as he did, he understood her moods and torments better than most would. There was a bond, we know that from his tears at her death.

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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
To say that he was never supportive is like to say she was never in love. We simply don't know and we 'll probably never know. They were both responsible fot the failure of their marriage. Like every couple.
I agree with the bolded. We just cannot know because Charles never said anything. We have an incomplete story, and it seems that is the way it will 'end'.
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  #1132  
Old 02-08-2015, 10:46 AM
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Yes, Charles and Diana had put their years of hurt and pain behind them in the last years of Diana's life. It was said their relationship was better after the divorce. Charles used to make visits to her apartment and Diana always seeked Charles opinion on her charitable ventures. He was there for her when she passed away, and wore the color of suit she liked on him for her funeral. Charles also wore Diana's wedding ring all the way up until he got engaged to Camilla. They shared a bond that not even the years of drama couldn't break.
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  #1133  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:20 PM
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I agree with Lady Nimue. Every book I have read on the subject-too many to count-says that in the final year of her life Charles had assumed the role of comforter and friend to his troubled ex-wife. He even occasionally stopped by for tea at KP. As bizarre as it sounds, she would sound him out on her romantic problems and he would console her.

And in July 1997 when Diana learned about a 50th birthday celebration Charles was giving Camilla at Highgrove she reportedly wept. That might have been the catalyst that drove her deeper into the Al-Fayed camp, along with her desperate desire to make Hasnat Khan jealous.

Charles's agitation and grief upon viewing her dead body in the Paris hospital morgue has been well documented. As Dman has pointed out, he continued to wear his wedding band until his engagement to Camilla, as if he was a widower and not in fact a divorced man. He didn't have to do that.


The POW is many things, but he is not an actor.

Charles and Diana were not meant to be married forever. But they did care for one another deeply and given time and perspective I've never had a doubt in my mind that they would have healed their relationship into something positive, meaningful.

They simply ran out of time.
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  #1134  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:28 PM
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I think age gap between Charles and Diana also played not the last role in their case.
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  #1135  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:37 PM
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I believe that it was in Tina Brown's book that, after Diana's death, Charles said that he believed that he would end up taking care of her. This suggests to me that he knew that she was ill and reckless and wouldn't be able to function for decades on her own. It also expresses that he knew about her loneliness, that she wouldn't be able to depend on her family or the men in her life.
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  #1136  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I agree with Lady Nimue. Every book I have read on the subject-too many to count-says that in the final year of her life Charles had assumed the role of comforter and friend to his troubled ex-wife. He even occasionally stopped by for tea at KP. As bizarre as it sounds, she would sound him out on her romantic problems and he would console her.

And in July 1997 when Diana learned about a 50th birthday celebration Charles was giving Camilla at Highgrove she reportedly wept. That might have been the catalyst that drove her deeper into the Al-Fayed camp, along with her desperate desire to make Hasnat Khan jealous.

Charles's agitation and grief upon viewing her dead body in the Paris hospital morgue has been well documented. As Dman has pointed out, he continued to wear his wedding band until his engagement to Camilla, as if he was a widower and not in fact a divorced man. He didn't have to do that.


The POW is many things, but he is not an actor.

Charles and Diana were not meant to be married forever. But they did care for one another deeply and given time and perspective I've never had a doubt in my mind that they would have healed their relationship into something positive, meaningful.

They simply ran out of time.
I agree, Moonmaiden23. They truly care about each other and Charles mourned Diana. I might not have agreed with his actions at the time, but I thought it was so unfair how the media treated Charles in the aftermath of her passing. He not only tragically lost his ex-wife, but also the mother of his children. I don't know if anyone paid attention to Charles's face during Diana's thanksgiving service in 2007, but his face looked totally devastated the whole time. I hadn't seen him look like that since the Queen Mother's funeral. He may have moved on, but I think Diana will always be with him. The world's media always talk about the two Princes she left behind; I happen to think she left behind three...
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  #1137  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:50 PM
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And in July 1997 when Diana learned about a 50th birthday celebration Charles was giving Camilla at Highgrove she reportedly wept.
The sad part is that it never had to end that way. Had Diana played by the social rules of her position (though such 'rules' may not have been the rules for others) Charles would never have divorced her. She would have become Queen.

Her mistake was believing her own press. The adulation she experienced from the crowds became part of her 'truth'. She believed she was special, I think. As some have suggested on this thread, she did believe that she was 'more important' than Charles. (Members of the public believed she was 'more important' than Charles). That was her fateful undoing. It is the undoing of so many who find themselves in the public eye, subject to adulation. Without grounding, something twists inside. I've seen it. It happened to Diana, I believe.

In a way, I think becoming the Princess of Wales was her greatest misfortune. Had she married some minor aristocrat she would have had a better chance of surviving adulthood with a modicum of dignity. The real culprit was not Charles and who he may or may not have loved better than she, it was being the center of a phenomenon called 'celebrity' and 'tabloid journalism'.

I am always surprised to realize that people do not understand the timeline of the revelations. Because I have read exhausting books that factually lay out the sequence of events, I have it fairly clear, not blurred by memory's indistinctness. Diana's press was not uniformly adulatory. She faced serious obstacles since journalists were well aware of what was going on. Diana set in motion the Morton book as her defense of herself, and in doing so she spun quite a tale, a tale we now know that was riddled with inaccuracies and mean-spirited and unfounded allegations. She was in a very precarious position. Scandalous revelations were imminent (before the Morton book) and she was aware of that. She felt the walls closing in. Her escapades were starting to leak. It's all there in the written record, both in newspaper articles and books.

If nothing else, Diana had an acute survivor's instinct, and a flair for the dramatic. Throwing Camilla under the bus was a brilliant diversionary tactic. It worked, basically destroying Camilla's marriage. People forget why Diana did the Panorama interview - because of James Hewitt's book (chronicling their love affair) and the fact that Diana had engaged in criminal activity regarding one of the men she was pursuing (a married man). Both situations were quite serious - one was a revelation of a long-standing affair (across years) while still bearing children to the heir, and the other suggesting the commission of serious criminal actions that would have gotten most people a stint in prison. The newspapers were awash with scandal and the tide was turning against her a second time. All of this is not speculation on my part. It's all there in the written record. The time sequence is there for anyone to read.

The Morton book and the Panorama interview were Diana's attempts to get the heat off her. She was wildly successful but at punishing cost to herself and her coveted lifestyle. One could legitimately argue that her breach of the social rules by effectively writing a book (the Morton book) on the BRF's personal lives (albeit involving her) led to the separation, and the Panorama interview where she verbally assaults the readiness of the heir to the throne via innuendo led to the divorce.

As I say, my mother used Diana as a cautionary tale with me, that's why I know as much as I do, though I would never claim to have an exhaustive understanding of either Diana or her world back then. I find her enormously puzzling, though if I posit her as spoiled with an arching sense of privilege it all makes sense. My mother had other theories that I don't subscribe to.

My summation of Diana is that she was a fool. Is that too harsh? She worked hard to land Charles. That's how I see it, and once she 'had it all' she squandered it all. Defies understanding.
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  #1138  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:28 PM
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Some further posts in this thread have been deleted and/or edited as they add nothing to the discussion about Charles and Diana. Members are free to express their opinions on the subject at hand, but it would be helpful if people can, where possible, provide sources for any factual information they have based their opinions on, otherwise it could be construed as being speculative.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:43 PM
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Since I cannot recall which book my information comes from - I have read a few - I will cite this one: Diana in Search of Herself: Portrait of a Troubled Princess by Sally Bedell Smith. It is a book that was initiated by Graydon Carter, the editor of Vanity Fair (if I have my facts right) shortly after Diana's death. In keeping with Vanity Fair's mission to record current society, Diana's life fell within those bounds. It's a very journalistic tome, filled with sources and notations and bibliography.

It's a book that literally documents the time line of Diana's life from a to z. It's pretty thick going. I had to set it aside several times. It chronicles not only Diana's major life events but her press, so that one can see how the events unfolded when and how, and what was said when and how, that precipitated further events. Sources are copious. Every attempt was made to get people to talk openly, without anonymity.

The view was that such a book, written so soon after her death, would preserve the facts while the story was still fresh in everyone's mind who had something to contribute. It's an outstanding compendium imo, but hard-going because some of what's described is difficult to read about.

Hope this helps. I've read other books but as I say the information sometimes gets unwittingly conflated in the mind. Even I get confused.
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  #1140  
Old 02-08-2015, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I agree with Lady Nimue. Every book I have read on the subject-too many to count-says that in the final year of her life Charles had assumed the role of comforter and friend to his troubled ex-wife. He even occasionally stopped by for tea at KP. As bizarre as it sounds, she would sound him out on her romantic problems and he would console her.

And in July 1997 when Diana learned about a 50th birthday celebration Charles was giving Camilla at Highgrove she reportedly wept. That might have been the catalyst that drove her deeper into the Al-Fayed camp, along with her desperate desire to make Hasnat Khan jealous.

Charles's agitation and grief upon viewing her dead body in the Paris hospital morgue has been well documented. As Dman has pointed out, he continued to wear his wedding band until his engagement to Camilla, as if he was a widower and not in fact a divorced man. He didn't have to do that.


The POW is many things, but he is not an actor.

Charles and Diana were not meant to be married forever. But they did care for one another deeply and given time and perspective I've never had a doubt in my mind that they would have healed their relationship into something positive, meaningful.

They simply ran out of time.
I can only judge this on personal experience - my parents had an acrimonious divorce that took five years to settle. But in the years following, they always asked me about how the other was and showed concern if either was ill etc. When my father died, my mother took a week off work which she had never done in all her life for any other family death.
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