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  #921  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
And if all that was known before the marriage. Maybe getting married isn't a good idea?


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I definitely think they shouldn't have gotten married. From Charles's side, she seemed much more mature than she was: she had lived on her own for more than a year and she seemed to be able to cope with the media. From Diana's side, Charles appeared to be charming and attentive.

I think her mother should have had a serious discussion with Charles and/or the Queen and Prince Philip and insisted the engagement be postponed until at least Diana was 20 years old. They would have gotten to know each other better.

I don't know if it would have made a difference but it certainly couldn't have hurt.
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  #922  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:16 PM
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She seemed to cope with the media so well. Looking back at those video clips, she seems to have lots of patience with their questions and their picture-taking. The only time she cracked in public was at that polo match just before the wedding. To all appearances, she was a young woman who was able to handle the pressure of public interest. I can see how the Queen and Prince Philip would be impressed by that.
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  #923  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:32 PM
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The queen had to have her marriage postponed by her parents, they made her wait till,she was 21.
I do believe that Diana was the most harmed because of her age and her lack of parenting.
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  #924  
Old 01-01-2015, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Had Diana really been a suitable match for Charles and had a strong love grown between them, I believe his relationship with Camilla would have faded into friendship as his wife would take her place in his affections, but this was not a wife who was suited to him so that transition did not occur.
This statement right here, to me, boils it all down into a nutshell. A niggling feeling in the back of my mind tells me that it was more likely that Charles didn't have someone in the background before and during his early marriage as a mistress but as a very close and intimate confidante. If there had been a very strong bond between Charles and Diana and it continued to grow, Diana would not have had the urge to dismiss and cut off Charles' circle of friends she felt threatened by. There is quite a bit of difference between loving someone and being "in" love with someone.
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  #925  
Old 01-01-2015, 09:09 PM
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What nonsense. Charles loved someone else. He has married her. And it seems to be a good marriage. Too bad the RF looked down their noses at her. Diana was perfect. Except he loved someone else, very much. It is hard to establish a marriage and relationship with one who has different loyalties. Charles never saw that would be a problem. In their circles, not just his, having a mistress was nothing new. Diana never played her role as expected. Devoted loving wife. She was the focal point, for Charles that was a negative, for the RF it was a negative. They need the spotlight. She was the spotlight. Beautiful and elegant a new twist for stodgy and uninteresting.
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  #926  
Old 01-01-2015, 09:12 PM
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Can't we all agree that there are no good guys when looking back at this time? Not Charles and Diana, not the Queen, not her family, not anyone?
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  #927  
Old 01-01-2015, 10:31 PM
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Very true. It's easy to say in hindsight that Charles and Diana should never have married, and that this person or that should have stopped it.

But that is overlooking the media frenzy at that time. It was horrendous! Even the Queen said she couldn't stand it any longer. Diana's mother actually wrote a reproving letter to the press about how they were hounding Diana, calling her at all hours of the night and invading her workplace.

Diana seemed to be the perfect future Queen, no one could understand why Charles was even hesitating. Everyone got carried away in the hype, and there was a general hope that everything would work out. Even Charles thought, wrongly, that once they were married the press would go away and leave them alone. But that never happened.
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  #928  
Old 01-02-2015, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
What nonsense. Charles loved someone else. He has married her.
Of course he loved other people besides Diana. There are multitudes of ways to love someone without having a romantic or sexual undercurrent to it. I believe it was the decades of a strong relationship in all aspects that makes Charles' marriage today a happy one.

Perhaps Diana was just not mature enough to realize this and felt she had to be the sole entity in Charles' life.
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  #929  
Old 01-02-2015, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Of course he loved other people besides Diana. There are multitudes of ways to love someone without having a romantic or sexual undercurrent to it. I believe it was the decades of a strong relationship in all aspects that makes Charles' marriage today a happy one.

Perhaps Diana was just not mature enough to realize this and felt she had to be the sole entity in Charles' life.
Charles and Diana did love each other, they just couldn't make their relationship work. Their love produced two fine boys, princes William and Harry. Their shared a bond through William and Harry. Had Charles and Diana formed a friendship before their marriage, things probably would've been different.
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  #930  
Old 01-02-2015, 08:53 AM
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But how can you love two women? IMO Charles has always loved Camilla (as a partner) and I'm sure he loved Diana, but not like a companion... I think he cared for her and they had a special bond because of their sons but I stronly believe the only love of his like has always been Camilla... I don't know if you get what I mean... I don't think thier love was that of a husband and wife... That's my perception of course, we all are just speculating... What I really mean is that a person cannot feel the same love for 2 women...
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  #931  
Old 01-02-2015, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I assume the Queen and Prince Philip also "knew about Camilla". Nonetheless, they encouraged the marriage. Either they assumed that Charles would settle down. or that Diana would manage to live with her husband's infedility like countless royal consorts before her.
Mbruno, you brought up a good observation about Elizabeth II and Prince Philip assuming Diana would be like countless royal consorts before her.
Diana was her own individual self.
She was no carbon copy of Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Mary of Teck, Alexandra of Denmark, etc.
Diana was Diana.
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  #932  
Old 01-02-2015, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
But how can you love two women? IMO Charles has always loved Camilla (as a partner) and I'm sure he loved Diana, but not like a companion... I think he cared for her and they had a special bond because of their sons but I stronly believe the only love of his like has always been Camilla... I don't know if you get what I mean... I don't think thier love was that of a husband and wife... That's my perception of course, we all are just speculating... What I really mean is that a person cannot feel the same love for 2 women...
Well, even some of Charles's friends have said that he's never been good with women, and that he loves them in his own way. I think he loved Diana in his own way and now loves Camilla in his own way. Love is a very funny thing.
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  #933  
Old 01-02-2015, 05:40 PM
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Wasn't there talk of HM sending APB to Australia in some role in order to separate Charles and Camilla? That might have made a difference.
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  #934  
Old 01-02-2015, 05:46 PM
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Even Camilla was reportedly initially enthusiastic about Diana. She assumed that young Diana had a character that was passive and pliable enough that she(Camilla) would be able to continue her "friendship" with the PoW after the wedding. During the engagement she vetted the girl over lunch, carefully interrogating her on whether she would be hunting with her new husband. It must have been quite a relief to her when Diana gave an unequivocal NO...she had no intention of accompanying her husband on the hunt.

Camilla's conclusion that "the mouse" would not be a problem for her must go down as one of the great miscalculations in British Royal history.

(sources)
Ever After-Anne Edwards
The Diana Chronicles-Tina Brown
Diana-Sarah Bradford
Diana:Her True Story-Andrew Morton
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  #935  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Of course he loved other people besides Diana. There are multitudes of ways to love someone without having a romantic or sexual undercurrent to it. I believe it was the decades of a strong relationship in all aspects that makes Charles' marriage today a happy one.

Perhaps Diana was just not mature enough to realize this and felt she had to be the sole entity in Charles' life.

Nonsense. He ,really loved Camilla. It is not his fault. Actually, it is admirable. And all aspects included sex. And Diana was immature. But she had the right to be his wife exclusively, not primarily. If it weren't for the snobby and archaic rules he had to accept they all would have been happier, as he could have married the woman he loved.
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  #936  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Even Camilla was reportedly initially enthusiastic about Diana. She assumed that young Diana had a character that was passive and pliable enough that she(Camilla) would be able to continue her "friendship" with the PoW after the wedding. During the engagement she vetted the girl over lunch, carefully interrogating her on whether she would be hunting with her new husband. It must have been quite a relief to her when Diana gave an unequivocal NO...she had no intention of accompanying her husband on the hunt.

Camilla's conclusion that "the mouse" would not be a problem for her must go down as one of the great miscalculations in British Royal history.

(sources)
Ever After-Anne Edwards
The Diana Chronicles-Tina Brown
Diana-Sarah Bradford
Diana:Her True Story-Andrew Morton
The problem with that story is that Diana DID go hunting with Charles. https://books.google.com/books?id=3O...20deer&f=false (If the link doesn't work, it is from the Weekly World News, November 10, 1981).

I appreciate that you provided 4 different sources but the ultimate source was Diana herself--10 years after the fact. At that point she was in the middle of the breakdown of her marriage, when estranged spouses often "shade" the truth. Unfortunately for those who believe every word that came out of her mouth, contemporary news sources indicate that this particular story is false.

This was not her only hunt. She hunted with Charles and his family before and during the engagement. Diana was brought up in a traditional Earl's household and was very used to blood sports. Charles and Diana's first date was a fishing expedition. There would be no reason for Camilla to ask about it, the assumption was that Diana was a "country girl" at heart.
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  #937  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:21 PM
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There was one writer, perhaps Tina Brown, who noted that when Charles and Diana were away from the Court and Camilla, they got along fine.

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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Wasn't there talk of HM sending APB to Australia in some role in order to separate Charles and Camilla? That might have made a difference.
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  #938  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:25 PM
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Nonsense. He ,really loved Camilla. It is not his fault. Actually, it is admirable. And all aspects included sex. And Diana was immature. But she had the right to be his wife exclusively, not primarily. If it weren't for the snobby and archaic rules he had to accept they all would have been happier, as he could have married the woman he loved.
This is leading us towards another issue though. At the time Camilla and Charles were first together, Charles was not in a position to get married or at least it wasn't a high priority in his life. One of the problems with her being a little bit older than him is that when they were in their early 20s and she was ready to marry, he wasn't. He was still establishing his naval career and being guided in other directions as well, and he went to sea and it seems he didn't ask her to wait for him. When he was away, Andrew PB came sniffing around and the rest is history.

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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
There would be no reason for Camilla to ask about it, the assumption was that Diana was a "country girl" at heart.
And Diana put on a very good show of loving country life during those weeks she spent at Balmoral visiting with her sister. As former Archbishop of Canterbury, Baron Runcie, tells us her grandmother thought Diana was "an actress, a schemer".

There's an excellent account of Diana's acting on these occasions in Lady Colin Campbell's "The Real Diana".
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  #939  
Old 01-02-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
This is what I find utterly unforgivable about her behaviour, that and blabbing a stream of lies to the press [without care of the collateral damage it would do to the institution into which she married, or to anyone or anything else. To me it negates all her 'good works', and her 'mental illness' doesn't excuse it.


I can't say if this was unforgivable or not, it is not for me to forgive. But this behavior of involving her kids in adult situations is damaging. It's horrible when one spouse doesn't realize that the person they are attaching is just not their ex, but thr mother/father of their children.
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  #940  
Old 01-03-2015, 01:10 AM
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[I appreciate that you provided 4 different sources but the ultimate source was Diana herself--10 years after the fact. At that point she was in the middle of the breakdown of her marriage, when estranged spouses often "shade" the truth. Unfortunately for those who believe every word that came out of her mouth, contemporary news sources indicate that this particular story is false]//quote


US RoyalWatcher,

Who were these "contemporary news sources" who were/are so irrefutable? The master spin doctor from Clarence House known as Mark Bolland? Nicholas Soames or some other person from Charles and Camilla's circles after Diana was dead?

I am not sure how the fact that Diana did hunt with Charles a few times proves the story is false. Maybe she was making an effort to enjoy a sport she loathed for Charles's sake? She definitely did not hunt regularly with Charles.

By Camilla's own admission the pre-wedding lunch did indeed happen. It's just that Camilla's version of what they discussed differs from Diana's.


Finally, I am not quite sure how believing that the idea that Camilla had ulterior, selfish motives for vetting Diana equals"believing every word that comes out of Diana's mouth." As flawed as Diana's version of events turned out to be, the fact is that Camilla's hands are NOT clean in this mess. She might not have schemed on Diana's level but that does not make her behavior any less dishonorable, imo. She was betraying her husband and her marital vows long before Diana came on the scene, after all.
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