The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #781  
Old 09-01-2013, 01:14 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
^^^^
Well lets face it, Diana did not have a good record of listening to anyone if they were telling her something she did not want to hear. That is why she turned to faithhealers, aromatherapists, butlers and anyone else who would tell her she was right and wonderful and the best. She dropped anyone who might dare tell her she was wrong.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #782  
Old 09-01-2013, 01:20 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: colchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Diana's mother seems to me to have been congenitally unable to give any valuable advice to her children.

She made a colossal mess of her own relationships, so i doubt she would have shown much insight into anyone elses. Also her 'credit' ,as regards her past behaviour [as a 'bolter'], deserting her young children, would not have inspired confidence in Diana, who seems to have sought marriage to the Prince believing that [with him] there could be no possiblity of a repeat of her parents catastrophic divorce.

Diana's feeings towards her mother were naturally very complex, and i doubt she'd have listened to her on the subject of what makes a secure & happy marriage.


Wyevale, she certainly didn't set Diana a good example, but I imagine that she herself had been edged into marriage with Johnnie Spencer by her pushy mother who took his side in the divorce. It mattered little that he may have been a wife beater, he was ARISTOCRACY. My feeling is that not only did Diana marry Charles because he was the one man who COULDN'T get divorced, he also had a family in which divorce didn't figure and unlike her own, appeared united.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #783  
Old 09-01-2013, 01:28 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 816
To clarify, I agree that Diana wasn't likely to listen to anyone. I'm suggesting that one or both of Diana's parents should have talked to Charles or his parents after it became evident it was getting serious but before the proposal (November or December) and suggested that he wait until Diana be out of her teens before taking the relationship to the next level. That would have delayed the proposal by about four months. It may not have made a difference, but it would have been the right thing to do.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #784  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:11 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,349
Yes that is what I am saying as well, even if Diana didn't drop kick people out of her life who didn't agree with her, she was still a teenager and not likely to listen. Francis should have gone to Charles or his parents with concerns. Was it just Francis or did others also see warning flags? Did her father just want her to marry a Prince? Was Francis the only one who saw the truth of what would happen?
__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
  #785  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:22 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: colchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Yes that is what I am saying as well, even if Diana didn't drop kick people out of her life who didn't agree with her, she was still a teenager and not likely to listen. Francis should have gone to Charles or his parents with concerns. Was it just Francis or did others also see warning flags? Did her father just want her to marry a Prince? Was Francis the only one who saw the truth of what would happen?




Apparently her Grandmother, Ruth, Lady Fremoy, great friend and confidente of the Queen Mother, was against the match, but you must also remember that this is the same Ruth, Lady Fermoy who went to court to say that her daughter Francis was an unfit mother because the left the man she accused of cruelty. There is a breed of person in England for whom these things are of no importance. What matters is being seen to do ones duty. The closer one is to the crown, the more important this becomes meaning that one doesn't walk out on a marrriage just because ones husband occasionally sees fit to administer punishment, one covers the bruises/black eyes and smiles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #786  
Old 09-01-2013, 02:38 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post
Gordon Lightfoot's song "If You Could Read My Mind" is about the breakup of his first marriage. His eldest daughter Ingrid made him change the line "I'm just trying to understand the feelings that YOU lack" to "...the feelings that WE lack". She said "Wasn't it a two-way street, Daddy?" at which he replied "You know, you're right. I can't do anything about the record, but (comforting voice here) for the rest of my life, I promise you, I'll say the feelings that we lack." You could just see a twinkle in his eyes during the interview footage.
This really sums things up beautifully I think (and yes, I am a humungous Gordon Lightfoot fan).

During a turbulent marriage, both sides tend to look at and focus on the hurts and wrongs that are happening to them and taking into consideration what the other partner is feeling and going through never enters the picture.

In hindsight, one can look back honestly and see and recognize just how their own behavior attributed to a breakup. Thanks for sharing that story Sarah. I think its going to be a Gordon Lightfoot night over here.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #787  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:06 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Yes that is what I am saying as well, even if Diana didn't drop kick people out of her life who didn't agree with her, she was still a teenager and not likely to listen. Francis should have gone to Charles or his parents with concerns. Was it just Francis or did others also see warning flags? Did her father just want her to marry a Prince? Was Francis the only one who saw the truth of what would happen?
This line of post has me wondering whether Charles approached Earl Spencer and asked for his daughter's hand in marriage before he asked Diana. If so, I wonder what Spencer said in reply. This was the opportunity to have that frank discussion and say, 'No, Sir, I recommend you don't ask her yet. She's very young and has lived a rather sheltered life. Give it a bit more time and get to know each other better first. Becoming your wife is a great privilege but also entails great responsibilities and it is important she is fully aware of what she is taking on and that the two of you are absolutely sure that marriage is right for you'. Or was it more, 'Yes, Sir. Of course Sir! She'll make you a fine wife.'
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #788  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:26 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
An incident springs to mind of the time not long before Diana was being courted by the PoW: James Gilbey forgot a date with her; in revenge, Diana and her friends covered his car in flour and eggs. This could be attributed to "youthful high spirits", but I can't think of myself or any of my friends taking that kind of revenge at that age. Other than this incident, we really don't know a lot about how Diana behaved privately as a young single woman. We know about how good she was with children and that she had very loyal friends, but that's about it. There was the incident of slapping her father after he married Raine, but she told that one herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
I really don't think that Diana would have been truly happy with whoever her husband was, she was too insecure, too needy of the constant affirmation from others that she was THE BEST but at least with any other man her insecurities could have been played out in private, away from the public gaze.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #789  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:36 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
An incident springs to mind of the time not long before Diana was being courted by the PoW: James Gilbey forgot a date with her; in revenge, Diana and her friends covered his car in flour and eggs. This could be attributed to "youthful high spirits", but I can't think of myself or any of my friends taking that kind of revenge at that age. Other than this incident, we really don't know a lot about how Diana behaved privately as a young single woman. We know about how good she was with children and that she had very loyal friends, but that's about it. There was the incident of slapping her father after he married Raine, but she told that one herself.
I haven't heard about the eggs and flour incident before but it brings to mind that it was reported once while they were courting, Charles didn't phone Diana when he said he would and she took the phone off the hook for a couple days I think. My memory is fuzzy on this.

From all that I've read over the years, Diana was not one you'd want to be on the wrong side of. If you were out, you were really out and sometimes it would happen for the slightest of reasons. I just don't think she had any kind of a gift for any kind of a sustainable relationship.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #790  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:42 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
From what I've read, Frances wasn't respected within Establishment/Royal circles because she left her husband and was perceived as abandoning her children. I'm not sure whether she would have been been inclined to contact Buckingham Palace because of that. Although, later on, she enjoyed a good relationship with Charles and Diana and spent a fair amount of time at Highgrove with her grandchildren.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
What matters is being seen to do ones duty. The closer one is to the crown, the more important this becomes meaning that one doesn't walk out on a marrriage just because ones husband occasionally sees fit to administer punishment, one covers the bruises/black eyes and smiles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #791  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:44 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
An incident springs to mind of the time not long before Diana was being courted by the PoW: James Gilbey forgot a date with her; in revenge, Diana and her friends covered his car in flour and eggs. This could be attributed to "youthful high spirits", but I can't think of myself or any of my friends taking that kind of revenge at that age. Other than this incident, we really don't know a lot about how Diana behaved privately as a young single woman. We know about how good she was with children and that she had very loyal friends, but that's about it. There was the incident of slapping her father after he married Raine, but she told that one herself.
I don't know how James reacted, but such behaviour would not have encouraged me or any other man I know to continue dating her. Her "youthful high spirits" speak to a strong sense of entitlement that never went away.
There is also the story about her pushing Raine down the stairs at Althrop. Is that now to be considered "youthful high spirits"? Is that how we excuse bad behaviour these days?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #792  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:45 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 470
Quote:
Diana was not one you'd want to be on the wrong side of. If you were out, you were really out and sometimes it would happen for the slightest of reasons. I just don't think she had any kind of a gift for any kind of a sustainable relationship.
Quite simply she was a 'bunnyboiler' through and through...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #793  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:48 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
I'd not personally refer to those kinds of behaviours that way, no. It does seem to be a term used for bad behaviour among the aristocracy of a few decades ago, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
There is also the story about her pushing Raine down the stairs at Althrop. Is that now to be considered "youthful high spirits"? Is that how we excuse bad behaviour these days?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #794  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:49 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
I don't think so. She liked small animals too much to be cruel to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Quite simply she was a 'bunnyboiler' through and through...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #795  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
An incident springs to mind of the time not long before Diana was being courted by the PoW: James Gilbey forgot a date with her; in revenge, Diana and her friends covered his car in flour and eggs. This could be attributed to "youthful high spirits", but I can't think of myself or any of my friends taking that kind of revenge at that age.
I regret to say I can recall having done something similar. But I was only about 15.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #796  
Old 09-01-2013, 05:58 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
That's more understandable. There's a big difference between 15 and 18 or 19.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #797  
Old 09-01-2013, 11:19 PM
georgiea's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 1,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
That's more understandable. There's a big difference between 15 and 18 or 19.
Yes, but Diana was very immature for her age, spoiled and daring. Her actions did not relate to her age.
__________________
Watch your actions, for they become your habits. Watch your habits because they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Reply With Quote
  #798  
Old 09-01-2013, 11:37 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Yes, but Diana was very immature for her age, spoiled and daring. Her actions did not relate to her age.
Which does make you wonder about Charles, actually. What was he actually looking for in a bride? What was it about Diana that appealed to him? He might have been 30 but he seems to have been more than a little naive himself.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #799  
Old 09-01-2013, 11:56 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,189
I wonder why her employers didn't see that side of her? They have only good things to say about her--except for the dance teacher she worked for who thought, if I recall correctly--that she lacked dedication. She seemed to be highly capable in some areas and lacking in others. Prince Charles must have seen the areas she was good in: humour and empathy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Yes, but Diana was very immature for her age, spoiled and daring. Her actions did not relate to her age.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #800  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:36 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 2,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Prince Charles must have seen the areas she was good in: humour and empathy.
Yes, I think you're right. I am reminded of how impressed he was with how compassionate she was with him over the death of his beloved uncle, Lord Mountbatten. She comforted him at a time he needed it, and that sort of kindness is going to leave an impression.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diana princess of wales, marriage, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charles & Diana picture thread Josefine Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 355 03-20-2014 11:18 AM
Charles & Diana, Visit To Italy In 1985 jun5 Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 57 09-02-2012 09:35 PM
Charles & Diana jun5 Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 47 05-29-2004 01:45 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:22 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]