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  #701  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Really DMan? Who did Charles make the phone calls to? Was it necessary for the police to be called into investigate the phone call? Who did Charles place the blame on? Did Charles ever try and ruin the reputation of an innocent party, let alone take pleasure in such actions and brag about it?
It is one thing to be an apologist for Diana but could you at least provide some evidence for your counter claims.
Trying to reason with some people is a waste of time (especially when they claim that no one on this forum is critical of Charles).

There was an intelligent discussion upthread in which several people acknowledged that both parties were equally responsible for the breakdown of the marriage, but the public war, which deeply hurt William and Harry, was Diana's fault. Some posters will claim a false equivalency between Charles' interview and Diana's, but reasonable people see through that.

Charles never publicly criticized Diana, never asked him friends to criticize Diana, never harassed anyone, never used his sons as cover for his affair, and never betrayed anyone's privacy. He briefly tried to blame his decision to marry on the Queen and Prince Philip, but everyone makes mistakes.

Most importantly, he always kept the door open to Diana. Several people claim the relationship improved in the months before Diana's death, which was due to Charles's outreach. He was an excellent parent who, unlike Diana, always put William and Harry first while they were growing up.

Regarding the actual marriage, Diana suffered from serious mental health issues. It was in no way her fault and it is extremely difficult for someone who suffers from a mental health problem to admit it and get help. However, it is also very difficult for the family members. A high percentage of people who suffer from bulimia are divorced. There are strategies to constructively communicate with someone who suffers from mental illness, but I don't think Charles understood the illness well enough to use them.

Early in the marriage, Charles fired a lot of his staff and cut off many friends, but he resented it. Diana tried to fit into his world, but she did things like taking riding lessons and then having an affair with the instructor, so I don't give her much credit for that.

In my opinion, both parties were equally to blame until about 1988, when Diana started leaking to the media and deliberately upstaging him. The marriage was over when Charles realized that he could not trust her to keep his confidence. They couldn't repair the marriage unless the two of them learned to communicate. But you can't have honest communications if one party is blabbing intimate matters to outsiders.

Both of them were having affairs, but Diana decided she wanted more children as Harry and William went off to boarding school. We can discuss her real reasons for wanting more children, but Charles thought it was a bad idea to bring more children into the marriage and I think that is what set Diana off. The rest is, unfortunately, history.
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  #702  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:40 PM
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This all was really well put.

Also, Dman, are you seriously comparing phone calls that Charles made to Camilla to the stalker-ish phone calls that Diana made?
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  #703  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:45 PM
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Agree 100%. As I have said before They Both had their faults and both made mistakes and are both 50/50.
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  #704  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:48 PM
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I had no idea this forum was used to bash Diana and make excuses for Charles until now. This is one sad forum. So go right ahead with the Diana bashing, it's okay.

Don't worry, I'll never participate in this forum page again.
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  #705  
Old 08-31-2013, 03:54 PM
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I had no idea this forum was used to bash Diana and make excuses for Charles until now. This is one sad forum.

Don't worry, I'll never participate in this forum page again.
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I do think you're taking it too personally.
Its not making excuses for one side or another to say they were BOTH responsible for this fiasco.
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  #706  
Old 08-31-2013, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I had no idea this forum was used to bash Diana and make excuses for Charles until now. This is one sad forum. So go right ahead with the Diana bashing, it's okay.

Don't worry, I'll never participate in this forum page again.
Hmmm, so people did not fall all over themselves to agree with all your statements but instead asked you to provide sources for your claims and the end result is you now decide not to participate. Thats fine, but is does seem rather like the internet equivilent of taking your ball and going home because the other kids on the playground refuse to play by your rules. Thats life.
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  #707  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If Diana did not marry into the royal family, there is no William and Harry. No royal wedding with Kate and no George. The drama of the nineties paved the way for the happy times of today. Kate's uncle didn't declare that she was a virgin like Diana's uncle did because no one cared.No cared that the future king lived with his future queen before marriage.
Why did women who married into the royal family have to be declared virgins before they could marry?
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  #708  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:20 PM
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He's supposed to go into the same kind of "gnashes" that George VI went into. Perhaps Camilla has the same ability to calm him down as Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) had with George VI. That would be really terrifying to someone like Diana. Some have said that she seemed to be afraid of him at times. I have no doubt that he could be really formidable when angry.

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I think you are right about Charles walking away. From almost all accounts, he is not a yeller. It is more likely that Diana yelled at Charles in front of the children, not vice versa.
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  #709  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I had no idea this forum was used to bash Diana and make excuses for Charles until now. This is one sad forum. So go right ahead with the Diana bashing, it's okay.

Don't worry, I'll never participate in this forum page again.
If you think this is bashing you should head over to RoyalDish where the MODs do most of the bashing.

Don't worry, all this will disappear when it gets too "rowdy" for our MODs. I never bother to waste me time typing in Charles/Diana/Camilla threads anymore. They all end the same way.

Closed for Moderator Review.
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  #710  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post

Why did women who married into the royal family have to be declared virgins before they could marry?
Diana didn't, not officially at least.

There hasn't been any official requirement that a royal bride be a virgin at her wedding, but it is an old custom that it's expected that women are virgins when they get married. Diana's virginity was never an issue; it was assumed that she was a virgin as she didn't have a history of previous boyfriends who could tell any embarrassing stories. The press, being the press, decided to publish speculative stories, so her uncle publicly announced that she was a virgin (because, you know, these things are always known by ones uncles).
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  #711  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:28 PM
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In more recent times, I think it's to make sure there aren't ex-lovers out there who will use their experience for their own profit: whether black-mailing the princess or queen involved or else by selling stories to the media. Female virginity was a big deal for a long time. I remember studying a play from the 16th century in which the virginity of the anti-heroine was an important part of the plot.

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Why did women who married into the royal family have to be declared virgins before they could marry?
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  #712  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:30 PM
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Apparently this history is still to fresh to have a civilized discussion about it, let's try again in 10 years.
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  #713  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:44 PM
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Dman, it has become easy to bash Diana on this and anywhere else, as she can no longer defend herself and her life stopped, so she has no present
But its called History ! Diana is an historical figure who played a major role in the BRF and we MUST be critical about her life and her behaviour. I don't see any bashing at all...
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  #714  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post

But its called History ! Diana is an historical figure who played a major role in the BRF and we MUST be critical about her life and her behaviour. I don't see any bashing at all...
Ah, but see to fault Diana while also faulting Charles is horrible. And to fault Diana without at the same time faulting Charles (even if you freely admit that Charles was at fault), is even worse. And to write a lengthy post in which you hold both accountable for their actions is to expect too much of those who might read it, and c'mon Diana wasn't at fault at all and we should only remember the marriage for the happy years that were really a farce out forward for the public.
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  #715  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:48 PM
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Maybe this speeds up the 'closed by moderator' proces :-) but i have a feeling that views of P.Diana and P.Charles also differ by country....
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  #716  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:50 PM
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I agree with with your sarcastic/ironic comment re Camilla coming to his rescue. People don't seem to remember that when Charles could have married Camilla, she was in love with Andrew Parker-Bowles. She must have known she'd never be acceptable as a Princess of Wales in those days.

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Camilla just came by to be kind and rescue him from his miserable state... He knew the score.
However, I think that should have listened to her initial instincts about Charles and Camilla's relationship and not gotten engaged; because she was suspicious of it even before the engagement. She could presently be the 52-year-old wife of some other aristocrat had she not gone ahead with her marriage to Charles.
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  #717  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:54 PM
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Maybe this speeds up the 'closed by moderator' proces :-) but i have a feeling that views of P.Diana and P.Charles also differ by country....
I agree. I pointed this fact before. Europeans tend to be more critical about the late princess's life. On the contrary some of our US friends seem to be still mesmerized by Diana.
It's interesting...
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  #718  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:56 PM
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Well Charles may not have used his sons to cover his affair, he certainly used any house any one of his friends or relatives would allow, as clearly delineated in their own words on tape.As we have previously discussed Camilla made regular briefings to the Sun's Stuart Higgins on "Charles' side". As we have previously discussed, Charles spent the night before the first wedding with Camilla, which to me is beyond the pale, and shows such a complete lack of good faith at the wedding in the mooring. Charles had PLENTY of his own baggage brought to the table.
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  #719  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:59 PM
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I don't think there has been much Diana bashing at all on here, if there is any bashing it has been directed much more at Charles then Diana.

Some people's rather make Diana look like a Saint and make Charles look Evil. Diana is not a Saint (And Charles is not either) and Charles is not Evil (Same as Diana). A failing of a marriage is always 50/59.


They both made made mistakes, they both did or said things that were not right. Neither of them are perfect. However when it came to parenting they both had a hand in raising their boys and teaching then to become young good mens.

By the way if Diana was yelling at Charles In front of the boys then I could see why he walk away. You should never fight or yell at your spouse in from of Your children's. My parents never argued in front of us.
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  #720  
Old 08-31-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
But its called History ! Diana is an historical figure who played a major role in the BRF and we MUST be critical about her life and her behaviour. I don't see any bashing at all...
Now Nico , you know very well that for some some people any questioning of Dianas actions or motives or role in the breakdown of her own marriage is considered bashing. That which does not sanctify Diana is not acceptable.
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