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  #661  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:03 PM
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The royal family needed the cobwebs shaken from their very old institution and I think Diana helped them out.
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  #662  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:11 PM
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WRONG. The Royal Family was way to good for you little precious Saint Diana the all mighty!

And William And Harry knew everything that was going in and even Diana would talk to them about what was going and how bad their father was which was wrong of Diana to that! They saw magazines, newspapers, interviews. heard the fights,. They know more of went on then we do. Also Diana had many affairs of her own as well!

Also William and Harry loves their father just as much as their mother even with all the faults and mistakes. And they are also close to Camilla, No Camilla will never take Diana spot and she knows that but they are still close to get and are happy that their father is happy

You make it sound like William and Harry hated their Father and want nothing to do with him which is far from the truth!

Good God, no. That is what this stupid divide creates. They love their father. He is a good father. They were young children when all this happened. They, I am sure have their opinions, today. They have never turned their back on their mother. Even dead and cannot defend herself. She made many mistakes. So did they. I feel sorry for Charles and Camilla, that they didn't have the right to marry when they should have, as she had a "background". They were hypocrites and they have cost a great deal to many lives. It is too bad. Today, thanks, in part to Diana, they have arrived in many ways to being more open and less sacrosanct.
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  #663  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:02 AM
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The royal family needed the cobwebs shaken from their very old institution and I think Diana helped them out.
Diana cared about herself #1. You seem to be in some serious denial especially in regards to Diana intentionally upstaging members of the RF. She tried to destroy the institution and thought she was bigger than it. The main thing the RF has learned from Diana is to vet anyone who married into the family; probably one of the reasons it took Kate a decade to get a ring.
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  #664  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:32 AM
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Diana cared about herself #1. You seem to be in some serious denial especially in regards to Diana intentionally upstaging members of the RF. She tried to destroy the institution and thought she was bigger than it. The main thing the RF has learned from Diana is to vet anyone who married into the family; probably one of the reasons it took Kate a decade to get a ring.


From transcript of telephone conversation with James Gilbey 31.12.89:

GILBEY: "And so darling, what other lows today?"
DIANA: "So that was it, I was very bad at lunch. And I nearly started blubbing. I just felt very sad and empty, and I thought: 'Bloody hell, after all I've done for this (expletive deleted) family.'"


A bit off-topic, but I always enjoy this part from later in the transcript:

DIANA: "I know. But do you know what's really quite--um--whatever the word is? His grandmother is always looking at me with a strange look in her eyes. "It's not hatred; it's sort of interest and pity mixed in one. I am not quite sure. I don't understand it..Everytime I look up, she's looking at me, then looks away, and smiles."
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  #665  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:40 AM
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It seems odd that some would blame Diana for taking the attention away from members of the royal family at private and public official engagements with a smile, laugh, look, hairstyle or wardrobe.

From what I'm reading, Diana should've stayed in the background, sat/stood still, not laugh, not look at anything, wear a veil over her face so she wouldn't look attractive and wear shabby clothing. To me that's just dumb.

I'm glad Diana spoke out about what was going on in her marriage and how the royal family treated her. She was married to a man who thought it was perfectly normal to have a wife and a mistress at the same time. A mother-in-law that turned a blind eye to the situation. A grandmother-in-law who supported her grandsons careless and damaging actions, and a family that was pretty cold. On top of all of that, Diana was dealing with a woman that wanted her husband so badly that she help ruin her own family, hurt her children and made them look bad because she wanted to be the future consort.

Diana made her own mistakes and had some affairs too. I never said that Diana was an angle sent from above but she was dealing with one old, stuffy and ignorant family in those days and I can't blame her for hitting them below the belt when she got a chance.
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  #666  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:58 AM
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You must not really be reading what anyone's saying then, at least not beyond a cursory glance to ensure that we're still not on board with Diana being in the right.

No one is saying Diana should be faulted for naturally drawing attention simply by being younger/more attractive/fresh/whatever. In an instant where Diana "upstaged" someone simply by being herself (or by putting on a public persona and appearing to be the happy person that many believe her to have been) she shouldn't be faulted. She was doing what was natural or seemed right.

That doesn't mean that there weren't instances where she did deliberately go out of her way to try to upstage her husband, his family, or his mistress. That doesn't mean that she wasn't as responsible for the failure of her marriage as her husband was. That doesn't mean that her behaviour during her divorce was reprehensible, indicative of a jealous and mentally unstable woman who was incapable of accepting responsibility for her own part in the demise of said marriage, who tried to crucify her husband for his affair despite having had affairs herself (an with at least one married man), and whose antics drew her private life very much into the public fold despite the fact that doing so was detrimental to her sons and, whether she liked it or not, the family and institution to which they belonged.
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  #667  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:11 AM
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I'm glad Diana spoke out about what was going on in her marriage and how the royal family treated her. She was married to a man who thought it was perfectly normal to have a wife and a mistress at the same time. A mother-in-law that turned a blind eye to the situation. A grandmother-in-law who supported her grandsons careless and damaging actions, and a family that was pretty cold. On top of all of that, Diana was dealing with a woman that wanted her husband so badly that she help ruin her own family, hurt her children and made them look bad because she wanted to be the future consort.
At the time of that conversation with James Gilbey on New Year's Eve 1989 the marriage was one of convenience only. Diana had been on with James Hewitt for three years and was still having an affair with him, though it was winding down, yet Diana couldn't seem to accept that she couldn't have her cake and eat it too. As far as I know, Charles didn't take the boys with him when he went to visit Camilla, but Diana did take them with her when she went to visit James Hewitt and his mother. And I take issue with the suggestion that Camilla wanted to be the future consort, because I believe she had no such intention; that, to the contrary, Camilla was content to keep things the way they were, but this thread is not one for discussion of the paramours in detail.

As I see it, the marriage was over by the time Diana took up with Hewitt. I don't begrudge her finding happiness with him or anyone else, just as I don't begrudge Charles his happiness with Camilla. What I do strongly object to is Diana's hypocrisy, and her "pity me" attitude and blatant attempts to belittle Charles and paint him as the evil and/or incompetent one in order to gain sympathy for herself, and to upstage him and, by extension, the whole Royal Family, which included her own children though it seems that she didn't give that aspect much thought.
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  #668  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:16 AM
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Sadly enough, I can believe this.

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... but what wasn't a coincidence was the fact she instructed her driver to let her out much further from the entrance so she would have to walk much further than was necessary and thereby give the photographers several extra minutes to photograph her looking absolutely fabulous as she covered the distance, guaranteeing it would be photographs of her that would dominate the next day's papers rather than anything about Charles.
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  #669  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:19 AM
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Yes, it was. She was with the Fayeds during Camilla's birthday party, putting on a show for the photographers.

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I thought the F U Charles dress was worn when he was giving the interview during which he admitted to the affair.
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  #670  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:24 AM
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There was the time she went to Annabelle Elliott's party(her 50th perhaps?) and confronted Camilla in the basement. I hadn't thought about it in this light before, but she did use a celebratory event for her own purpose.

And there was the time she spoke to Tiggy Legge-Bourke at the staff Christmas party. That was what led to Patrick Jephson's resignation. He just couldn't work for her anymore after that, and I don't blame him.


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I do kind of question what kind of person would go to a private event, like a birthday or a wedding, and try to upstage the person that the event was in honour of. I'm not saying Diana did this, but if she did to me it's rather distasteful of her.
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  #671  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:24 AM
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From at I'm reading, everything is pretty much one-sided.

Yes, Diana's behavior was off at times but she wasn't the only one that was doing very shady things. Charles knew that having an affair was not only damaging to the royal family but hurt his children and his wife. He also help drag CPB/DoC family in the mud and made her look bad. When he confessed his adultery on national TV, it made matters worse and even upset CPB's father and he stop speaking to Charles for a while after that.

Charles tried his best to hurt Diana. When he fell and broke his arm, it was his wife that wanted to go home with him to Highgrove and help take care of him. Instead he already had his mistress there to surprise Diana and made her leave in floods of tears. Charles would yell at Diana in the presence of his children and leave her to lock herself in the bathroom to cry.

Charles is the most well prepared King-in-waiting there is and he has done an outstanding job in his charity work and with his charitable trust but his careless and heartless actions in the late 80's and early 90's nearly brought down the very institution he was born to someday lead. He's managed to marry the woman that help cause his first wife so much heartache and pain, many don't think he's fit to be King. I beg to differ on that but my goodness he has an ugly past too.
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  #672  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:25 AM
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Yes, it was. She was with the Fayeds during Camilla's birthday party, putting on a show for the photographers.
Oh, yes! The leopard-skin print swimsuit on the diving board.
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  #673  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:39 AM
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From at I'm reading, everything is pretty much one-sided.
It is a very divisive issue and people tend to have strong views.

Quote:
Yes, Diana's behavior was off at times but she wasn't the only one that was doing very shady things. Charles knew that having an affair was not only damaging to the royal family but hurt his children and his wife. He also help drag CPB/DoC family in the mud and made her look bad. When he confessed his adultery on national TV, it made matters worse and even upset CPB's father and he stop speaking to Charles for a while after that.
I just cannot see what Charles was doing that was shady. Accepting that there had been an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage but that at that time everyone believed there was no hope of divorce, what was Charles to do? Charles was discreet. He was not the first one to go into print and air the dirty laundry in public, that was Diana.

Quote:
Charles tried his best to hurt Diana. When he fell and broke his arm, it was his wife that wanted to go home with him to Highgrove and help take care of him. Instead he already had his mistress there to surprise Diana and made her leave in floods of tears. Charles would yell at Diana in the presence of his children and leave her to lock herself in the bathroom to cry.
Charles broke his arm in June 1990. Why on earth at that stage would he want Diana to be the one to go home with him and take care of him? The relationship was a mess by then. Diana was miserable that Hewitt hadn't put her first but chose to go where his career took him and I am fairly sure - relying on memory here - that their relationship was over by then. I'm not sure whether she had anyone else at the time. Diana should have stayed away from him if she didn't want him yelling.
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  #674  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:48 AM
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I have a recurring dream that Diana comes back, having not really died, and she and Prince Charles have decided to make a go of it again. (Of course, in this dream, he hasn't remarried.) So here I am, over 50 years old, and must be in some way wishing that it hadn't all worked out as it did...especially with the death of a young mother. I was in denial about Diana until the last couple of years of her life. I kept wishing and hoping that she'd "smarten up": either make up with Prince Charles (before the divorce) or find a nice bachelor or widower and settle down (after the divorce). She was my idol during the 80s and early 90s. However, by the mid-90s, I had become very disappointed. Until she admitted adultery in the Panorama interview, she had plausible deniability about her affairs. Up to that point, I'd given her the moral high ground. The other thing about the Panorama interview was that I sensed, during the second part of the interview, that she had some real emotional problems. There was something in her tone that belied her supposed victimhood. She thought that she was better at being Royal than other people in the Royal Family, which I don't believe was true. The Squidgygate quote about "the ******* family" rather shocked me. It was coarse and vulgar and not worthy of a Princess of Wales. I understand that she went through her periods of depression and through sadness because of her marriage breakdown, but that's no reason to carry on with lovers or speak like a fish-wife about the family that made her a British Princess. She could have handled things differently. She could have made different choices. She had gifts of empathy and compassion that even those she treated badly admit to. Ken Wharfe and Patrick Jephson come to mind.
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  #675  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:58 AM
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So it was acceptable for Charles to have an affair with a married woman and not seek marriage counseling to at least try to put his marriage and family back together? or at least try to help calm the situation down and try to end things peacefully and respectfully? It was acceptable for Charles to bring a great deal of chaos to the royal family and bad PR to it's image?

Although the marriage wasn't in the best condition, it was right for Charles to have his mistress waiting for him and to help him heal, all while his wife was concerned and wanted to go home and look after him?

I guess saintly and holy Charles did nothing wrong and Diana was the evil and destructive one the whole time. Wow, I thought I had heard it all but apparently I haven't.
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  #676  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:06 AM
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Of course not. I have been disappointed in Prince Charles as well. I'll never look at him in quite the same way again. They both acted badly and I have continuing concerns about the Prince of Wales. I think that part of me feels sad about what could have been.

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So it was acceptable for Charles to have an affair with a married woman and not seek marriage counseling to at least try to put his marriage and family back together? or at least try to help calm the situation down and try to end things peacefully and respectfully? It was acceptable for Charles to bring a great deal of chaos to the royal family and bad PR to it's image?
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  #677  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:17 AM
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Of course not. I have been disappointed in Prince Charles as well. I'll never look at him in quite the same way again. They both acted badly and I have continuing concerns about the Prince of Wales. I think that part of me feels sad about what could have been.
I think it's fair to be fair when talking about Charles & Diana. They weren't perfect and both did things to hurt one another when they were upset about the state of their marriage. In some cases, hurt people hurt people.

I don't think it's fair to go on and on about Diana's shortcomings but no mention of Charles's shortcomings. He too did some dirty work and his actions had a bad effect on the Monarchy too. It took some miracles and good PR work to drag the royal family image out of those dark days of the separation, divorce and tragedy.

I too wish things would've turned out differently but I know Charles & Diana had some good times and some joy with the birth of their children. I like reflecting on that too.
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  #678  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:20 AM
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So it was acceptable for Charles to have an affair with a married woman and not seek marriage counseling to at least try to put his marriage and family back together? or at least try to help calm the situation down and try to end things peacefully and respectfully? It was acceptable for Charles to bring a great deal of chaos to the royal family and bad PR to it's image?
My opinion and comments are based on the assumption that by the time Diana started her relationship with Hewitt, the marriage had irretrievably broken down. Irretrievably broken down means there's no hope of it being put back together again. Counselling would be pointless by that stage, except to try to get them to have an amicable separation. It is my belief that Diana was the one responsible for the chaos, not Charles.

Quote:
Although the marriage wasn't in the best condition, it was right for Charles to have his mistress waiting for him and to help him heal, all while his wife was concerned and wanted to go home and look after him?
Diana hardly ever went to Highgrove anyway. I understand she didn't like the place much, preferring to be in the city. Why did she want to be there except to stir up trouble? It was Charles' home and the place he felt comfortable and wanted to convalesce. She should have left him to do so on his own terms.

Quote:
I guess saintly and holy Charles did nothing wrong and Diana was the evil and destructive one the whole time. Wow, I thought I had heard it all but apparently I haven't.
I don't recall anyone here saying Charles was saintly or holy or that Diana was evil and destructive. I do, however, believe the two of them were most unsuited and should never have married, and that Diana's behaviour during the War of the Wales' was far more destructive than Charles'.
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  #679  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:36 AM
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I really don't think it mattered that Diana wasn't at Highgrove all the time. She had the right to be concerned about her husband and his broken arm. It was her right to want to go home and take care of him. It was CPB that shouldn't have been there in the first place and when Diana arrived, it was CPB that should've left not Diana.

Diana did her dirty work but Charles hands had dirt on it too. The heir to the throne was carrying on with a married woman, who had her own family by the way. Hurting his wife, children and letting down The Queen and rest of the royal family. The people in the UK, Commonwealth and rest of the realms had to wake up and see their future King and future Supreme Governor of The Church of England in the newspapers making a mess of his marriage and putting his wife and children though pain.

Diana's behavior was bad at times but Charles should've known better.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:04 AM
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So it was acceptable for Charles to have an affair with a married woman and not seek marriage counseling to at least try to put his marriage and family back together? or at least try to help calm the situation down and try to end things peacefully and respectfully? It was acceptable for Charles to bring a great deal of chaos to the royal family and bad PR to it's image?

Although the marriage wasn't in the best condition, it was right for Charles to have his mistress waiting for him and to help him heal, all while his wife was concerned and wanted to go home and look after him?

I guess saintly and holy Charles did nothing wrong and Diana was the evil and destructive one the whole time. Wow, I thought I had heard it all but apparently I haven't.
By the time that Charles realized that it was needed, it might have been too late. A few have attested to the fact that when she raged, he fled. Perhaps if he got angry and raged at her it'd be different? Good make up sex?

The main point is that sex or mistresses or the M18 or is it another alphabet soup haven't a clue
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