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  #621  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:49 AM
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That is one of the best analyses I have read of Diana - well done.

She would often set out to upstage the other royals - and she enjoyed doing it.
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  #622  
Old 08-29-2013, 08:22 AM
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Diana respected the institution she married to and in which her children was born. I think she would like how relaxed the Monarchy is today. She, like many others, knew that some things had to change.

Where is the evidence that Diana called members of the media when she took the boys out and about? Also where is the evidence that Diana scheduled public appearances to take the attention away from other members of the royal family?

The lifestyle of the royal family is appealing and, trust me, all those who marry senior members of the family or was born into it, love the lifestyle.
Diana was The Princess of Wales, future Queen Consort and mother of the future King, she deserved to be curtsied to.
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  #623  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:04 AM
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I know I am wasting my time, but here is one source. There are many others--as Dman knows. Some people seem to live in a constant state of denial. But no matter how many times they say it isn't true, there are too many people who actually knew Diana and even supported her (Andrew Morton and Richard Kay), who admit that she deliberately upstaged members of the royal family and used her children as pawns in the divorce.

The real Diana was a fascinating person. Unfortunately, some people believe that the media image was the truth and are very resistant to discussing facts.

Evelyn Dagley | Battle royal: Diana proves to be mouse that roars - Baltimore Sun
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  #624  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I know I am wasting my time, but here is one source. There are many others--as Dman knows. Some people seem to live in a constant state of denial. But no matter how many times they say it isn't true, there are too many people who actually knew Diana and even supported her (Andrew Morton and Richard Kay), who admit that she deliberately upstaged members of the royal family and used her children as pawns in the divorce.

The real Diana was a fascinating person. Unfortunately, some people believe that the media image was the truth and are very resistant to discussing facts.

Evelyn Dagley | Battle royal: Diana proves to be mouse that roars - Baltimore Sun
Well put. There are many people who blindly promote, love, or follow people who they will never know personally. Ive never understood it.

She wasnt a saint, she was human with all the human frailities. That didnt stop her trying to do good, charity work. everyone makes mistakes but the TV interview and stating that Charles wasnt fit to be king was malicious and unforgivable. And the embarassment that it caused her sons is beyond thoughtless.
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  #625  
Old 08-29-2013, 09:29 AM
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Had Diana been a saint, we would not have found her so engaging. It was her flaws (shyness, softness, confusion about her life) that endeared me.
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  #626  
Old 08-29-2013, 10:08 AM
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I think we all know that Diana wasn't a saint and she didn't marry into a sanctified family either. I know she often did things that she shouldn't have and she made her mistakes. I know I'm not making any excuses for her behavior or immaturity but I don't think Diana tried her best to upstage members of the royal family. Diana couldn't control the intense interest in her.

There were charities and organizations that preferred and requested the Princess of Wales to be their royal patron, president and even officially open their centers, over other members of the royal family. There wasn't her fault and she turned many of the offers down. It wasn't Diana's fault that whenever she appeared at public official engagements, the media focused a great of attention to her over the others. Despite the attention, she had to continue on doing her duty as the wife of the Prince of Wales and future Queen.

Her 1995 interview was a major mistake and she later admitted that she should have never given the interview.

No one is denying that Diana made her mistakes and that she wasn't a heavenly creature the media tried to make her out to be. I think the media's praises and glorification of the late Princess did her memory no favors. She was beautiful and kind woman, who was a good mother and did a pretty good job in her royal role.
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  #627  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:02 AM
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Had Diana been a saint, we would not have found her so engaging. It was her flaws (shyness, softness, confusion about her life) that endeared me.
I agree with this except: Shyness is not a flaw, it is a characteristic. I have a daughter who is shy, but she is very self confident in many ways. There is a difference between being shy and being insecure. I don't think Diana was shy as much as she was insecure. It still made her fascinating.
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  #628  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:05 PM
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Diana called members of the media when she took the boys out and about? Also where is the evidence that Diana scheduled public appearances to take the attention away from other members of the royal family?
.
You mean besides several members of the press saying exactly that? Surely you are not so naive as to believe that the British press corps normally hang out at Thorpe Park or outside of Carolyn Bartholomews apartment.
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  #629  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:25 PM
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The photographers followed Diana everywhere. They were waiting for her car (coming and going) at Kensington Palace on a daily bases. They knew when she went shopping on Kensington High Street, they knew when she were visiting friends, lunch, taking the boys out and everything. The photographers were on Diana's tail like white on rice.
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  #630  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:27 AM
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The photographers followed Diana everywhere. They were waiting for her car (coming and going) at Kensington Palace on a daily bases. They knew when she went shopping on Kensington High Street, they knew when she were visiting friends, lunch, taking the boys out and everything. The photographers were on Diana's tail like white on rice.
You are confusing the paparazzi with the media. Yes, freelance photographers would stake out the palace, as they do with many celebrities. They got candid (not posed shots) and sold them to the tabloids. Even so, Diana was often able to come and go without the photographers seeing her. She took the boys out to movies and shopping at times without being seen.

The regular reporters sometimes hung around to get stories, but not all the time. There is not one reporter who was dedicated to writing about Diana only. Even royal reporters (Richard Kay and Andrew Morton) had to cover other royal family members. To cover Diana, they had to be other places to talk to sources and file their stories. Remember, it was not just before the Internet, but most were covering her before mobile phones were common.

Television camera crews never just hung around the palace (or anyplace) waiting to see if someone comes and go. They will if there is a major story happening, but not at random. Professional video equipment is too expensive to just have sitting outside of the palace on the off chance that she may do something interesting--and it was even more expensive in the 80s and 90s.

One example of Diana's use of the media was the famous video of Diana taking her sons to an amusement park. She absolutely called the media in advance--no question. IIRC this was to upstage a speech Charles gave on economic development in Africa. The great "humanitarian" didn't care enough about relieving suffering of the poor people in Africa to refrain from using her sons to grab the headlines.
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  #631  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:38 AM
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I don't think Diana called the media to watch her and the boys at the park. This is the first time I'm ever hearing of this. I know the media followed Diana on a regular bases and when she was with the boys out and about. They staked out Kensington Palace like hawks.

There was even a documentary out about the photographers chasing Diana. The paps would get tips from other paps and they would chase her down and it was even worse when she was with the kids. This was done on their skiing holidays, taking them to McDonalds, out shopping, etc.
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  #632  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don't think Diana called the media to watch her and the boys at the park. This is the first time I'm ever hearing of this. I know the media followed Diana on a regular bases and when she was with the boys out and about. They staked out Kensington Palace like hawks.

There was even a documentary out about the photographers chasing Diana. The paps would get tips from other paps and they would chase her down and it was even worse when she was with the kids. This was done on their skiing holidays, taking them to McDonalds, out shopping, etc.
Again, you are confusing the paparazzi with the rest of the media. The paparazzi would take pictures and sell them to the tabloids. There is no news video of the night she died in Paris, because the television cameras were not there. How many videos are there of Diana eating at McDonalds or shopping with the kids? We do know that she talked with Richard Kay the night she died, so she did call the media regularly, didn't she?
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  #633  
Old 08-30-2013, 09:08 AM
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There are videos of Diana out with the kids shopping and going to McDonalds. The videos are used by the media all the time. The paps followed them all the time.
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  #634  
Old 08-30-2013, 09:46 AM
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There are videos of Diana out with the kids shopping and going to McDonalds. The videos are used by the media all the time. The paps followed them all the time.
I'm sure there are a few videos of them walking around but they are probably reusing the same ones because television cameras did not stalk her. My guess is that if there are videos, it was because Diana called them to let them know she was out among the people.

I've posted a link to one source and, as you know there are many others who say Diana called the media. The fact that Richard Kay was one of the last people to talk with her is documented in the official inquiry. We know she cooperated with the Morton book. What is your source that Diana never called the media to upstage Charles or other members of the royal family? I don't think even Diana ever made that claim.
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  #635  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:04 AM
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We do not know to what extent Diana was able to instruct and use the media,it does not make much sense to fight over such details because we will never be 100% sure about it.

The title of the thread is Charles and Diana,so let´s discuss anything that is relevant to their relationship!

To change the direction of this thread,I would be interested if anyone knows how Frances Shand Kydd & John Spencer got along with the Queen & Prince Philipp? Did they know each other before Diana and Charles got married and if so-did they have a good relationship? I imagine that they might have met at some royal gatherings,sport tournaments or cultural events etc., I wonder what they thought about each other...
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  #636  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:06 AM
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I thought it was being said on the forums that Diana upstaged Charles and royal family with the media. That's pretty much false.

As royal correspondent, Victoria Arbiter has said over and over again and I agree. There are so much false information and rumors about Diana out there that it's nearly impossible to debunk them all. Diana did some crazy things that shouldn't have done and should've been careful in her actions but there are a great deal of false stories too. The tabloids were coming up with all kinds of stories about the Wales's to help fill their papers and a great deal of the stories stuck unfortunately.

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To change the direction of this thread,I would be interested if anyone knows how Frances Shand Kydd & John Spencer got along with the Queen & Prince Philipp? Did they know each other before Diana and Charles got married and if so-did they have a good relationship? I imagine that they might have met at some royal gatherings,sport tournaments or cultural events etc., I wonder what they thought about each other...
The Spencer's have a long history with the royal family. The late Earl Spencer served as an Equerry to King George VI in the very early 50's and then to Queen Elizabeth II afterwards. The Queen & Duke of Edinburgh, Queen Mother and other members of the royal family attended Lord & Countess Spencer's wedding at Westminster Abbey in 1954. Frances mother (Diana's grandmother) Lady Ruth Fermoy was a good friend of the Queen Mother and was also her Lady-in-Waiting for 33 years.

Diana was born at Park House on the Sandringham Estate where the family lived until 1975, so they were close in those days.

I think Earl & Countess Spencer got along well with The Queen & Prince Philip, although the Spencer's split in 1969 and remarried others later on.
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  #637  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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I thought it was being said on the forums that Diana upstaged Charles and royal family with the media. That's pretty much false.

As royal correspondent, Victoria Arbiter has said over and over again and I agree. There are so much false information and rumors about Diana out there that it's nearly impossible to debunk them all. Diana did some crazy things that shouldn't have done and should've been careful in her actions but there are a great deal of false stories too. The tabloids were coming up with all kinds of stories about the Wales's to help fill their papers and a great deal of the stories stuck unfortunately.
I am saying that Diana upstaged Charles and the royal family with the media, and I have provided a source. Here's another one. What is your source for saying it was 'pretty much false?'

washingtonpost.com: International Special Report: Princess Diana, 1961-1997

Blauerengel, I don't know the answer to your question. The four of them certainly knew each other, but I don't know what the status of the relationship was.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:40 AM
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Those early days of their separation and divorce was total chaos and they did things to hurt one another. I'm glad they let all that pain go before her passing, although I really don't blame her for making a big scheduled appearance on the night of Charles's interview and was pictured in a swimsuit on Camilla 50th birthday party at Highgrove.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:02 AM
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Those early days of their separation and divorce was total chaos and they did things to hurt one another. I'm glad they let all that pain go before her passing, although I really don't blame her for making a big scheduled appearance on the night of Charles's interview and was pictured in a swimsuit on Camilla 50th birthday party at Highgrove.
So you don't have a source--and you acknowledge that she deliberately upstaged him after their separation.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but not our own facts. Diana deliberately upstaged Charles BEFORE their separation and I (and others) have cited examples and sources. It's fine if you don't want to believe the facts. No one can tell you what to think or feel. But discussion is much more fun if people who have no basis for their opinions would refrain from asserting those opinion as fact while labeling differing views as "false."
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:49 PM
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I would recommend that if you haven't already read it, to read "Diana: Shadows of a Princess" by her former private secretary Patrick Jephson. It makes for uncomfortable reading, but it has the ring of truth. He isn't a member of the "Diana was crazy" brigade.

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Where is the evidence that Diana called members of the media when she took the boys out and about? Also where is the evidence that Diana scheduled public appearances to take the attention away from other members of the royal family?
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