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  #521  
Old 08-11-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by georgiea View Post
Did she take pills? I read in one of my books that Diana didn't like taking pills (her set of aristocrats did not). Diana major mental fault was an eating disorder she was not sick with depression because she never miss a royal engagement or look like you do when you depressed. I think her impulsive nature or actions by the heart as she called it instead of the brain was Diana's biggest fault, plus her immaturity. I truly believe if the Diana came in Charles life at 30 instead of 18 she would have been ready for the life with him because she would be mature and worldly.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this. Yes, it would have helped the marriage if Diana (and Charles) had been more mature, but they had several issues that age and maturity alone would not have solved.

First, they had nothing in common. Unless Diana would have developed an appreciation for polo, country sports, reading, etc... at the age of 30, they still would have had nothing in common. Charles certainly has never lost his enthusiasm for his lifestyle. Second, we know that even by the time that Diana was 30, she had not yet understood the nature of her mental illness, which was also a major obstacle to their happiness.

Finally, Charles was never going to be able to give Diana the level of support that she needed to successfully deal with her mental illness. A spouse of a person with a mental illness has to be patient, understanding, kind, energetic, and firm to help the other person through their episodes. I don't think those traits are in Charles nature.

The bottom line is they just weren't right for each other. They cared for each other, but both of them would have been better off married to different types of people.
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  #522  
Old 08-11-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
No one is saying that it was all Diana's fault...
As usual, another well written post from Ish. I would add that one of their major problems was that they had nothing in common. Diana knew that Charles had no interest in marrying someone who didn't like country sports. Pretending to be something she wasn't put Diana under a lot of stress, which contributed to her emotional instability in the first couple of years of the marriage.

When Charles realized that they had nothing in common, he didn't make an effort to work with her to develop new interests. I'm not talking about going to rock concerts, but trying experiences that would have been new to both of them and they may have been able to cultivate together. I think he tried, but not very hard.

Also, I'm not sure that Charles didn't tell Diana the reasons that he wanted to marry her. It's possible he did, but he wasn't explicit. Diana has never claimed that during their courtship, Charles was constantly telling her how much he loved and adored her. She assumed he did. I think Charles cared about her and told her that, but I really don't see him going beyond that. Diana had a tendency to hear what she wanted to hear and disregard anything else.

I think it is more likely a major miscommunication, which I agree was Charles's fault. He should have directly and in no uncertain terms explained his confusion and then let her decide what she wanted to do. I still think she would have married him.
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  #523  
Old 08-11-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Diana did call Oliver Hoare many times but I think there's evidence that a little boy also made tons of calls to Mr. Hoare too.
I believe it was Diana who said the calls were pranks by a little boy; a statement that was later disproved. The calls were found to be made by Diana.
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  #524  
Old 08-11-2013, 11:54 AM
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No, I think it was proven that a little boy also made calls. It was investigated I believe.
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  #525  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:06 PM
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Something just struck me reading over these posts. Yes, there were three in the marriage from the beginning. There was Charles, Diana and the role of The Prince of Wales.

Although they didn't have much in common, its very likely that it was Charles' role of Prince of Wales that most likely caused a lot of stress in the marriage. Should Charles' have been a gentleman farmer, most likely he would have had more time to devote to Diana, more time to grow close as a husband, wife and a family. Instead, his role was planned out months in advance and his days were quite structured as to where he was to be, what he was to wear and the never ending preparations for such engagements. By this time in life, Charles had become accustomed to this lifestyle and most likely expected that Diana understood this. During their courtship, he was away on engagements even a foreign tour. Did Diana really expect anything different after marriage? Diana had a twofold relationship to adjust to coming into the marriage. The one with Charles the man and Charles, The Prince of Wales.

I can see where the role of Prince of Wales would cause a lot of stress in a new marriage. Its even been reported that one of Charles' top men (his name is on the tip of my tongue but its probably in my second cup of coffee) was let go because it was his job to plan and lay out what Charles' wore daily. Diana felt that this was her job as wife and resented this. It is easy to see how a young, insecure, emotionally needy bride would feel left out and neglected. On the other hand, Charles knew what his life was like and believed that Diana understood it and would be supportive.
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  #526  
Old 08-11-2013, 03:30 PM
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You're right Osipi. That would have been a huge part of the problem. They just didn't communicate. They should have gotten counseling before they got married. It would have saved a lot of heartache.

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
No, I think it was proven that a little boy also made calls. It was investigated I believe.
Could you please give your source? I find it hard to believe that a young boy was able to get access to her private line at Kensington Palace, her mobile phone, and a phone the home of her sister. The police traced the calls to those numbers, as well as the phone booths in the area. The boy could have gotten to the phone booth, but what percentage of the calls were made from the phone booth?
.
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  #527  
Old 08-11-2013, 04:37 PM
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The couple were very different people who didn't have a lot in common. Prior to marriage their lifestyles were very different even though Diana came from an aristocratic background. If they had grown up with similiar lifestyles or if her life from day one was planned out like Prince Charles's was, the marriage might have been an easier transition but then maybe not. There were other problems that had nothing to do with this.

Their expectations of each other or what they expected out of each other was very different. This was something they never worked out. When they got married, Diana was more or less expected to adapt to what the situation was and since she came from an aristocratic background, perhaps others expected her not to have any problems adjusting or adjusting very quickly. If would be very different if she didn't come from an aristocratic background or wasn't around individuals who were aristocratic or had to learn the ropes.

Prior to Diana dating Prince Charles she could come and go as she pleased for the most part. She didn't have someone who planned her day or a person who picked out the clothing or laid out the clothing she wanted to wear that day This could be why she saw an employee doing this as unnecessary or something that she could do for her husband.

Prince Charles never had that option growing up (eveything in his life was planned out and people were aware of what he was doing every waking moment or others on the outside where trying to figure out what he was doing where he was going or who he was dating).

Prior to dating Prince Charles I don't recall seeing Princess Diana's name in the tabloids or pictures of her going to the grocery store or walking down the street. I don't think her name was mentioned until she was linked to Prince Charles.

Once she was linked to Prince Charles walking down the street enjoying the day or going to the grocery store alone was no longer an option for various reasons. To her, this would not be a big deal (from some people it might) as she liked the limelight.
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  #528  
Old 08-11-2013, 05:13 PM
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AFAIK the only person who said this was Diana during the Panorama interview. What reason would any young boy have for calling Hoare that many times? I believe that Diana did lie about things, for example the "throwing down the stairs" that wasn't (according to Sarah Bradford's sources). She was a woman who bragged on video with Peter Settleton about slapping her father because he married Raine. She pushed Raine down some stairs as well. For some reason, even knowing these things, I find Diana fascinating. I've come to the conclusion that part of her was always that six-year-old girl who heard her mother walking away. Like a child or teenager, she didn't consider long-term consequences. The remarkable thing about her is that she did manage to do some good work and keep up public appearances in spite of everything. BTW I'm not a fan of Prince Charles. My feelings towards him have softened quite a bit since the mid-90s, but I generally don't find him very interesting. His book with Jonathan Dimbleby and the accompanying video were both huge mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Diana did call Oliver Hoare many times but I think there's evidence that a little boy also made tons of calls to Mr. Hoare too.
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  #529  
Old 08-11-2013, 06:25 PM
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OK, time for some facts, as far as we know them...

There was a little boy involved, but not as the mystery caller.
The little boy was instead the initial source of the story about the hundreds of phone calls made to Dianne Hoare (not Oliver) [when Mrs Hoare answered the phone there would be a long silence or the caller would hang up].
The boy was a schoolmate of one of the Hoare children.
I assume that in turn the boy recounted to his parents what he had been told, and the rest is history.
When the story broke, Diana's response was to accuse Charles and one of his staff members of fabricating/leaking it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Warren, could you give me more info about this? I don't remember Sarah's first official engagement, and I'd like to look up the details. Thanks.
Somewhat discordant to this thread, but in brief...
Soon after the marriage of the Duke and Duches of York Diana unexpectedly announced to her Equerry and Private Secretary that she wanted to do some more engagements and gave them three dates when she specifically wanted them to find something for her to do.
It was only after the dates were organised that one of the royal protection officers pointed out that they were the precise dates when the Duchess of York was scheduled to have her first three public engagements.
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  #530  
Old 08-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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Thanks, Warren. I remember her trying to blame Charles. I think she also told Richard Kay that she didn't know how to operate a parking meter, much less a phone box (we call them phone booths in the states). I remember that it was ironic that Diana was trying to paint the royal family as out-of-touch, yet she didn't even know how to use a parking meter.
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  #531  
Old 08-11-2013, 07:13 PM
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Charles and Diana didn't do a great job in covering up their bad actions. It was a bad time for the Wales family and royal family. The Queen has mentioned that those difficult days has mellowed with the times and I don't think they are hanging on to those harsh feelings.
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  #532  
Old 08-11-2013, 07:31 PM
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The only reason I raised it was because you muddied the waters by introducing a young boy as the culprit.
Some historical facts are not open to re-interpretation or re-writing and as an Administrator I believe it does the Forums and its members a disservice if misstatements of fact stand uncorrected.
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  #533  
Old 08-12-2013, 12:30 AM
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Picture:
Charles & Diana Enjoying Each Other's Company at a Polo Match-
My Current Problem • diana and charles
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  #534  
Old 08-12-2013, 12:22 PM
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Why the heck would a little boy call a grown man and his wife numerous times? Even when I was young and prank calle people it wasn't the same number a hundred times. Kids eventually get bored go out and play or go play Atari or Nintendo (this was the 80s right).
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  #535  
Old 08-12-2013, 02:07 PM
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You're right Osipi. That would have been a huge part of the problem. They just didn't communicate. They should have gotten counseling before they got married. It would have saved a lot of heartache.
Thank you for saying that. I've wondered how often did Charles and Diana actually sit down together and talk and listen to each other. I believe had they done this so many problems would have been avoided and they could have ended their marriage in a far more respectable way i.e Alexandra & Jocheim.
Sadly from what I read they we were only able to do this once the marriage was dissolved. At least they made their peace.
I am enjoying this balanced discussion on Charles and Diana. No more of the back & white Charles as the victim & Diana as the villain or Diana as the victim & Charles as the villain.
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  #536  
Old 08-12-2013, 02:17 PM
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I agree. They spent so much time talking to others about their problems and writing letters about their problems but it appears little time talking to each other. I don't think that either of them could give or accept loving, well-meant criticism.

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Thank you for saying that. I've wondered how often did Charles and Diana actually sit down together and talk and listen to each other.
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  #537  
Old 08-12-2013, 02:54 PM
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Charles & Diana had their problems but all wasn't that bad (early on) in their marriage. They shared love, laughter, duty and they enjoyed raising their boys.

Charles enjoyed teasing her and they enjoyed taking to the dance floor when they could. I remember the story about the Wales's having dinner with The Queen and rest of the family and Diana used to get up and run over to Charles's seat, sit in his lap and kiss him. Everyone liked seeing them play around. The couple also liked going skiing with the boys. They had a big snow fight several times and I think they may even hit some photographers with snowballs.

Picture:
Charles & Diana playing around with fake boobs-
http://royaltyspeaking.tumblr.com/po...y-friends-than

Well, Charles & Diana's marriage was hitting a brick wall, they had a great deal of pressure on them within the royal institution and the British tabloids was on their backs like white on rice. It all turned into a bad situation and most likely it wasn't easy for both parties to figure their way out through the mess. It was a sad situation but it happens.

I too believe Diana & Charles loved each other but I think it was best for them not be married anymore. It happens to some marriages. They were actually able to be civil with each other after their divorce and I think they were okay with that. Although I think Diana's one true love was Charles and it drove her mad inside that she couldn't have her husband and father of her children.
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  #538  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:28 PM
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Picture:
Charles & Diana Cooking-
majestic delight

I think the picture is legit. Charles appears to have both his hands over his chest while Diana is hugging him.
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  #539  
Old 08-13-2013, 07:46 PM
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No, that is the end of his sleeve with his arm around her. it is legit.
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  #540  
Old 08-13-2013, 11:25 PM
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Diana has one arm around Charles' shoulder and one around his waist. The two hands in front of Charles' chest are his own.

I have no doubt these two had some very happy times in the first five years of their marriage and I am sure Charles remembers these times fondly.
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