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  #501  
Old 08-10-2013, 07:37 PM
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The best thing that came out of Charles and Diana's relationship, and the failure of Anne and Mark and Andrew and Sarah's marriages, was that The Queen has insisted on much longer courtships for her later descendents - going for years not a few months.

Had Charles and Diana had to date for 6 years before marrying there is no way they would ever had married.
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  #502  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:12 PM
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I don't know, maybe if she and Charles dated for a while, maybe things would've worked out for them better. Then again, I think everything worked out the way it was suppose to work out. If they didn't get together when they did, William & Harry wouldn't be here.
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  #503  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:29 PM
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Diana needed lots of love, care and attention. I think they needed some marriage counseling. Diana just didn't put blame on Charles but on her parents too. She wasn't totally ill though or unstable though.
It is unfortunate that more than 15 years after Diana's death, many of her fans still do not understand the nature of Diana's illness. Diana was courageous when she admitted she was suffering from serious mental illness and emotional instability, but she really didn't understand the nature of her problem, which was why she blamed Charles and her parents.

Many people live through their parents divorce and their own divorce without developing a mental illness. It tends to run in families, Diana's sister suffered from similar problems, and she didn't marry Charles.

You wouldn't say that someone with diabetes or heart disease just needs "more love, care and attention." If someone you knew threw herself down a flight of stairs, you would admit that person was unstable.

Bulimia, depression, and a probable personality disorder are serious illnesses that need medical intervention. All the love and attention from their families is not enough. Most patients respond well to medication and counseling.

Part of the tragedy of Diana's life is that she never understood that. Too many people in her life made excuses for her and told her that throwing herself down a flight of stairs didn't make her unstable. That made it easy for her to avoid getting the real medical help she needed.
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  #504  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:35 PM
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I don't know, maybe if she and Charles dated for a while, maybe things would've worked out for them better. Then again, I think everything worked out the way it was suppose to work out. If they didn't get together when they did, William & Harry wouldn't be here.
I've read this a few times, and it always amuses me. If Charles and Diana hadn't married, Charles would have married someone else and there would be other children.

Is it possible that if Charles and Diana had spent more time together and gotten to know each other better that things would have worked out for them better? I think that is so, but because I think they would have parted and never married, and each of them could have married someone more suited. I think that with more time Diana would have tired of her pretense of enjoying the things Charles enjoyed and with familiarity would have let her guard down and probably thrown a tantrum or two and shown her true colours and Charles and the rest of the RF would have shied away. I don't think there are any circumstances in which those two could have been happy together in the long term; they were just too different and each was so demanding in their own way it was bound to end, so, in my opinion, it would have been far better if it had never started.
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  #505  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:39 PM
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Diana did get help for her eating disorder and once she did, it's was no longer a major problem for her. I think Charles & Diana needed marriage counseling though. I think there were deep issues that needed to be sorted out.



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I've read this a few times, and it always amuses me. If Charles and Diana hadn't married, Charles would have married someone else and there would be other children.

Is it possible that if Charles and Diana had spent more time together and gotten to know each other better that things would have worked out for them better? I think that is so, but because I think they would have parted and never married, and each of them could have married someone more suited. I think that with more time Diana would have tired of her pretense of enjoying the things Charles enjoyed and with familiarity would have let her guard down and probably thrown a tantrum or two and shown her true colours and Charles and the rest of the RF would have shied away. I don't think there are any circumstances in which those two could have been happy together in the long term; they were just too different and each was so demanding in their own way it was bound to end, so, in my opinion, it would have been far better if it had never started.
I think despite everything, Charles appreciates Diana for giving him William & Harry. Those are two boys he clearly adore and I really don't think he would've exchange them or do anything different. I'm not sure he considers his marriage to Diana a total mistake as others have tried to make it seem like it was.

I'm sure she is missed by him privately and I felt bad for the guy that he lost her so tragically.
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  #506  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:43 PM
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Lots of people consider there was far more going on in Diana's head than an eating disorder though. And marriage counselling can't cure basic incompatibility.
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  #507  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:45 PM
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I agree. The marriage never would have worked out under any circumstances. They both wanted completely different things out of the marriage.
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  #508  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:52 PM
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Diana did get help for her eating disorder and once she did, it's was no longer a major problem for her. I think Charles & Diana needed marriage counseling though. I think there were deep issues that needed to be sorted out.
Diana was on antidepressants, which helped with the symptoms of her eating disorder and some of her need to physically harm herself. However, she needed counseling to help her develop strategies to address her obsessive need for attention (i.e., calling Khan up to 20 times a day).

Counseling could have helped her overcome her impulsive nature, which I believe led to her death. She often did things without thinking through the consequences. For example, she did the TV interview and didn't even consider the impact it would have on William and Harry until after the interview.
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  #509  
Old 08-10-2013, 08:57 PM
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Diana didn't just throw herself down the stairs but she did so while pregnant, endangering her child's life. I have never heard Diana's family and friends say she had a tendency to lie but I did read in a book, maybe the Queen and Di, that the Queen made sure that her conversations with Diana had witnesses because she would rewrite what actually occurred. I think if Diana and Charles had dated longer they might not have ended up married; perhaps the cracks would have appeared and questions would have been asked regarding if this as really the best girl to marry.
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  #510  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:03 PM
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...Perhaps more sad is that we now know that much of the very sensational stuff Diana claimed she did was exaggerated - and this is one. Other witnesses indicate that the event was a natural stumble - and not a whole body fling down the stairs while pregnant...
I've heard that she exaggerated this event before, and I'm not sure who to believe. Andrew Morton also claimed that she put her head through a pane of glass, which I have always doubted. She should have had visible scars.

It's possible that she had strong urges to hurt herself, but couldn't bring herself to do it. Regardless, making a claim like that publicly in order to destroy the father of your children, coupled with her excessive need for attention and control, indicates that she was seriously ill. Most of her defenders would have had a hard time living with her themselves.
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  #511  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:22 PM
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Diana was no saint and made her mistakes but I do think its sad that some thought Diana was a very unstable person. I think she was a kindhearted person that wasn't treated well by many but she managed to support great causes, be a great mom, do her royal duties and just get on with things.

I do wished she had lived to find a new path in life. Her passing took place just when she was about to turn things around. She was going to work with President Clinton and President Mandela on the aids cause. Charles had asked her to accompany him on Britannia's final tour before it was due to be decommissioned. I'm sure there were other causes she wanted to support and I know she would've enjoyed watching William & Harry grow up.

I'll remember the great things did while here and not make the failure of her marriage the main focus but reflect on the good memories. The Queen put it best at the Memorial Fountain ceremony, there were difficult times but a lot of it mellowed with the passing of the years.



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Dman, I am so with on much that you say because I was where you are once, as well. I may have shifted how I view Diana but I do think there was 'real stuff' there in the marriage. You can't have babies with someone without feeling something. His grief at her death was genuine. [Remember, that even while she railed about Charles and the public was hearing all the innuendos she had to say about the BRF - when Diana was in need, she was calling up Charles and he was handling things for her. That's not the behavior of a man who hated her.]

I will also admit that in private when the two clashed Charles was who he was without apology, as was Diana. No innocents there - yet I also have consistently read that person after person who experienced them as a couple, and who watched Charles at particular moments in regards to her - express regret that the marriage didn't work, that they couldn't make it work.

One previous girlfriend mentioned how easily Charles fell in love - and I believe he did fall in love with her. Had Diana been a bit less clever and a bit more savvy she could have had Charles dancing her tune. In fact she already was in many ways.

If only, if only, if only.....that's what makes tragedy, and this story is a tragedy.
I have always believed that there was real love between the couple and I'm sure they've wished things didn't go down as it did. I think it's a slap in William & Harry's face to say their parents never loved each other, should've never married and that their mother never had all her marbles.

I don't know if anyone noticed but during the Thanksgiving service to commemorate the tenth anniversary of Diana's passing, Charles looked totally devastated. His face was drawn and nose was red, as if he had shed a tear. I think his grief for the mother of his children is deep and personal. I'm sure he'll never forget her and as William & Harry have pointed out, they talk about her all the time. She's not forgotten.
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  #512  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:28 PM
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Diana was on antidepressants, which helped with the symptoms of her eating disorder and some of her need to physically harm herself. However, she needed counseling to help her develop strategies to address her obsessive need for attention (i.e., calling Khan up to 20 times a day).

Counseling could have helped her overcome her impulsive nature, which I believe led to her death. She often did things without thinking through the consequences. For example, she did the TV interview and didn't even consider the impact it would have on William and Harry until after the interview.
Did she take pills? I read in one of my books that Diana didn't like taking pills (her set of aristocrats did not). Diana major mental fault was an eating disorder she was not sick with depression because she never miss a royal engagement or look like you do when you depressed. I think her impulsive nature or actions by the heart as she called it instead of the brain was Diana's biggest fault, plus her immaturity. I truly believe if the Diana came in Charles life at 30 instead of 18 she would have been ready for the life with him because she would be mature and worldly.
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  #513  
Old 08-10-2013, 09:56 PM
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Did she take pills? I read in one of my books that Diana didn't like taking pills (her set of aristocrats did not). Diana major mental fault was an eating disorder she was not sick with depression because she never miss a royal engagement or look like you do when you depressed. I think her impulsive nature or actions by the heart as she called it instead of the brain was Diana's biggest fault, plus her immaturity. I truly believe if the Diana came in Charles life at 30 instead of 18 she would have been ready for the life with him because she would be mature and worldly.
I have read that she was on anti-depressants at the end of her life, which helped control her bulimia. The severity of her depression is an open question. I agree that she was able to function, but another poster on the thread about Diana's illness explained that in some cases, a person can be severely depressed and able to function at the same time.

A high percentage of people who suffer from bulimia also suffer from a personality disorder. We know Diana exhibited obsessive traits. For example, she made hundreds of nuisance calls to Oliver Hoare after he broke up with her and she virtually stalked Hasnat Khan. She was also extremely impulsive and self-destructive.
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  #514  
Old 08-10-2013, 10:04 PM
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Where's the evidence that Diana stalked Hasnat Khan?

So easy to talk about Diana and her problems but its funny how I hear nothing about Charles's problems. He too had deep personal issues and has publicly thrown his parents under the bus due to it.
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  #515  
Old 08-10-2013, 10:16 PM
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Where's the evidence that Diana stalked Hasnat Khan?

So easy to talk about Diana and her problems but its funny how I hear nothing about Charles's problems. He too had deep personal issues and has publicly thrown his parents under the bus due to it.
Tina Brown has stated that Diana called Khan as much as 20 times a day. She planned a secret wedding without telling him. She flew to Pakistan to meet with his family, also without telling him in advance. That is the behavior of a stalker. And Tina Brown is one of Diana's fans.

Charles certainly had problems and his attempt to blame his parents for a decision he made when he was 30 was pathetic, but does not indicate a mental illness.

You seem to think that saying Diana suffered from a mental illness is an insult to her. It isn't. Mental illnesses are medical conditions. Diana herself said that she was depressed and suffered from bulimia. She also claimed to engage in self-mutilation and claimed to throw herself down a flight of stairs. How many people do you know who do things like that? If you knew someone like that, you would agree that that person needed medical help.

Diana also displayed obsessive traits. The police traced the nuisance calls to Oliver Hoare to her. Calling someone hundreds of times and hanging up is stalking behavior. Calling Khan up to 20 times a day is not normal, especially considering he is a surgeon.
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  #516  
Old 08-10-2013, 10:26 PM
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Diana did call Oliver Hoare many times but I think there's evidence that a little boy also made tons of calls to Mr. Hoare too.

Charles did have a great deal of problems and according to a very close friend who participated in a documentary about his current wife, he mentioned that Charles was never good with women and only have love for them in his own way. I think he upset his parents and even Princess Anne for throwing for them under the bus. His actions also did a great deal if damage to the royal family.
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  #517  
Old 08-11-2013, 12:23 AM
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It amazes me that no one said what a miserable husband Charles was. They were not suited to one another, which never bothered Charles because he thought he could have a, totally, separate life from her. Which he did. What ruined the entire thing is that she became from more popular than he. He couldn't stand the competition. He needed the spotlight. The RF thinks they are entitled to it. Too bad, she married a man who had a mistress, continued to have a mistress, although, the Charles myth seems to have taken over and loved a woman more than his wife.
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:29 AM
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Oh here we go again. It was all Charles' fault and his jealousy and Camilla. That is the 1992 version of events, since then more has come out that shows Diana wasn't an easy person to get along with. She was a needy person married to a needy man. In the BRF the importance is on the Queen and her heir, they are entitled to that attention more than Diana whose only accomplishment was she was young blonde and pretty.
As for Diana being mistreated who exactly mistreated her and how? If anything it seems she mistreated a couple of people.
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  #519  
Old 08-11-2013, 02:30 AM
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They all mistreated each other but it's not fair to place all the blame on Diana. She messed up and so did Charles. There was also a great deal of players in the same too.

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  #520  
Old 08-11-2013, 03:13 AM
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They all mistreated each other but it's not fair to place all the blame on Diana. She messed up and so did Charles. There was also a great deal of players in the same too.
No one is saying that it was all Diana's fault.

Saying that Diana had a mental illness is not saying that it was all Diana's fault, it is simply saying that she had a mental illness. Diana had bulimia. She had depression. She was prone to self harm and very likely could have ended up hurting someone else. She displayed narcissistic tendencies, was selfish, and had to be the centre of attention.

Charles, on the other hand, was also prone to narcissism, although not really in the same way as Diana. Diana wanted to be the centre of attention and would strive to be so, while Charles expected to be the centre of attention simply because he had always been such. He entered into his marriage not because he loved Diana but because he felt obligated to get married and Diana was a woman who met the right qualifications. While this in itself isn't a flaw - many royal and noble marriages have been conducted through such means and ended up very successful - the fact that no one told Diana was a huge flaw. Despite being older than her in a lot of ways Charles was every bit as immature as Diana; he'd been with women before and may have even fallen in love, but he hasn't really ever been with anyone who he could have considered to be a long term partner, and so had never developed a relationship that could lead to marriage. It's very significant that prior to his marriage Charles' longest relationship with a woman was with someone who, in the classic mistress of a Prince scenario, was married to someone else and therefore could never pressure him for marriage.

Another major flaw that both Diana and Charles had was that they showed love and affection in different ways, and neither seems to have made the effort to communicate as much to the other. If you look at pictures of the pair of them in the early years Charles acts similarly around Diana as he now acts around Camilla, but Diana doesn't appreciate it or recognize it for what it's meant to be. Similarly, Diana's way of showing love and affection wasn't one that Charles was comfortable with and as such Charles pulled away while Diana felt neglected and unloved.

Charles' biggest flaw, however, was that he wasn't strong enough to support Diana. Her mental instability was such that she needed someone who could be a source of support and stability for her, and Charles was unable to provide that. He didn't know how to help her and he pulled away from her. Being with her was too much, so he turned to affection in a place where he knew that he could get it. Meanwhile being with Charles wasn't enough for Diana, so she turned to other men in order to find it. Charles was successful, but as Diana's behaviour during the divorce, her relationships with other men, and her relationship with William showed she didn't find the love and support that she needed in her lifetime.
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