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  #481  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I think that many people still think of both Charles and Diana in black and white terms. There's a tendency to still think of things as they were during the War of the Waleses during the early-to-mid-90s, when both parties in the marriage were at their lowest emotionally and were telling their memories, as they saw them, through a very dark lens. Anyone who followed those stories has a hard time being neutral on anything having to do with Charles and Diana. At least, that's how it appears to me having been in various royal forums since the late 90s.
I agree with your point.


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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I can see how Charles has had to recreate people'd perception of him, and in doing so has lead to people debunking the myth of Diana...

But I don't think that the perception of Charles as it is today is a myth, nor is the perception of Diana as being a flawed person a myth. Contrary to what some individuals may believe, she wasn't a Saint. She was very human and had her fair share of flaws, something that in the height of her divorce she was very reluctant about admitting publicly (and since then some of her more fanatical fans have continued to refuse to admit).
I admired and respected the late Princess of Wales but I personally never thought of her as a saint. Of course she had personal issues, who don't?

The way I see it, both Charles & Diana had issues and I'm glad things calmed down between them before Diana passed away.

What I have seen is people place a great deal of blame on Diana's shoulders though. Not fair, IMO.
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  #482  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:53 PM
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IMO, I think Charles loved Diana and I think the Queen's choice of the Cambridge lovers knot tiara was a sign that the couple did love each other. They may not have been in love with each other and their problems surfaced before the deepening of that love which caused the marriage to break down.

Their marriage had problems because both didn't know what the other needed. Their own needs overshadowed their partner's needs and this cause friction in the marriage and over time more problems arose until both gave up.
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  #483  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post

I admired and respected the late Princess of Wales but I personally never thought of her as a saint. Of course she had personal issues, who don't?

The way I see it, both Charles & Diana had issues and I'm glad things calmed down between them before Diana passed away.

What I have seen is people place a great deal of blame on Diana's shoulders though. Not fair, IMO.
I agree.

I think people are often to quick to place the bulk of the blame for the problems on either Charles or Diana. Few people seem to want to go "Diana made these mistakes, Charles made these mistakes."

Personally I think Charles is as much to blame as Diana, and Diana is as much to blame as Charles, but I think at the core of it the problem was that they were too different and too similar in the wrong ways.

The one thing I will critique her for and not critique Charles for is how she handled the divorce. I do hold her responsible for the way that people frequently perceive her behavior and Charles' behaviour. She spun a myth about the princess who had been wronged by her prince, and however much validity there was to that story she damaged her husband, his family, and her children through her actions. Despite however much of a right she had to act the part of the woman scorned, I have a hard time respecting a woman who exposes her private, personal life in such a matter without at least forewarning the other parties involved. That she essentially exposed her children as well in my opinion makes it worse. The War of the Waleses should have been, in my opinion, between Charles and Diana and Diana instead turned it into something so much bigger than it needed to be in what I feel was an act of revenge against Charles.

In short: I think Charles and Diana were equally at fault in the demise of their marriage, but when it comes down to it they were incompatible as partners and that's why things didn't work out. I do however, hold Diana responsible not for the divorce but for the degree of publicity that the divorce received and the way that Charles, Camilla, and the BRF were painted in the public opinion, while she cultivated the image of the wronged woman and saint -like figure.
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  #484  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:45 AM
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If I talk about the Wales's marriage, I try to remember those good and happy days because they were happy for a while. When I talk about the breakdown of their marriage, I try to be fair to both parties. Both Charles & Diana did and said things they shouldn't have said in public but I understand that when you are hurt, stressed and just going through personal pain and struggles, it's hard to contain your feelings.

I may not agree with airing dirty laundry in the public but I do applaud Charles & Diana for letting the world know that despite all the trappings and glory of royalty, none of it is a fairytale where the prince and princess live happily ever after. They have personal issues just like everyone else and I think it was pretty brave of them for giving rather frank interviews and cooperated with books about their lives and marriage.

I don't place blame on Diana for the attacks on Charles, Camilla and the royal family over the years. They all played a hand in the game and had to suffer the consequences for their actions or lack thereof. They came out of it okay though, they just can't run away from history. That's just how the cookie crumbles.
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  #485  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:24 AM
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In short: I think Charles and Diana were equally at fault in the demise of their marriage, but when it comes down to it they were incompatible as partners and that's why things didn't work out. I do however, hold Diana responsible not for the divorce but for the degree of publicity that the divorce received and the way that Charles, Camilla, and the BRF were painted in the public opinion, while she cultivated the image of the wronged woman and saint -like figure.
Well put. I totally agree.
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  #486  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:48 AM
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Well put. I totally agree.
Thanks.

I struggled with trying to express my thoughts there, and I'm not certain that I did so fully - I was having problems finding the right words and kept on being interrupted. I'm glad that someone appreciated and understood what I had to say.
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  #487  
Old 08-10-2013, 01:21 PM
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Picture:
Nice picture of Charles walking hand in hand with William & Harry-
Very Prince Harry

Picture:
Charles & Diana play with baby William:
http://onemoreblogaboutroyals.tumblr...prince-charles
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  #488  
Old 08-10-2013, 01:48 PM
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Ish, I absolutely agree. Both Charles and Diana were responsible for their choices and the breakdown of the marriage. But Charles handled the divorce much better. In fairness, Diana wasn't responsible for all of the false stories circulating about Charles.

The irony is that most people still would have been on her side even if she hadn't been so vindictive. She was more popular, and if she followed Fergie's example and had just insisted on a separation and divorce without the rancor, I think she would have been much happier.
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  #489  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:07 PM
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Divorce is always hurtful and sometimes all that hurt and pain can cause some people to act out their feelings. Not saying that's it right but it happens. I'm just glad Diana and Charles were on their way to patching up their relationship.

I would've loved to see them together on Britannia's last tour.
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  #490  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
If I talk about the Wales's marriage, I try to remember those good and happy days because they were happy for a while. When I talk about the breakdown of their marriage, I try to be fair to both parties. Both Charles & Diana did and said things they shouldn't have said in public but I understand that when you are hurt, stressed and just going through personal pain and struggles, it's hard to contain your feelings.
I've seen this point made before, but I don't understand what you think Charles did or said in public that he shouldn't have. If you are talking about his interview and biography, your creating a false equivalency. Diana smeared him in almost every way possible.

Charles never publicly criticized her. Not once. Charles never tried to destroy her. Not once. He probably said some negative things about her in private, but never publicly. If you think he did, please give me the source. I am also reasonably sure that whatever he may have said in private, he made sure Harry and William never overhead.

His interview was not due to hurt and stress. It was probably on the advice of public relations experts who advised him to admit infidelity in an attempt to get it behind him. It didn't work because Diana and the media never moved on.
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  #491  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:13 PM
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I think most agree that these 2 personalities were never going to live happily ever after. As someone else said I blame Diana for the smearing of the BRF especially. She painted them as being cold and unwelcoming and not caring to help her through her problems, after she died it came out that they did try to help and guide her but she didn't want it. Diana seemed to have bad interpersonal relationships with almost everyone in her life, if she hadn't died she would have to eventually confront these issues or she would never be happy.
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  #492  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:18 PM
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Both Charles & Diana conducted themselves in an inappropriate manner in public sometimes and even had their friends say things on their behalf. Made matters worse but also the media played a great part. They came up with all kinds of false stories, some that would be hard to debunk today.

As I said before. They were many players in this War of the Wales's game and many took a hit on the chin for their actions, including Diana. Diana wasn't saint but neither was Charles, Camilla and other royals.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:55 PM
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I don't believe Charles of Camilla lashed out at bystanders like the BRF. Diana essentially tried to destroy them and paint them in a negative light.
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  #494  
Old 08-10-2013, 03:37 PM
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This thread isn't about Camilla...so there is no point in going there.


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Old 08-10-2013, 03:45 PM
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While I don't think Charles ever loved Diana, I do believe he married her believing that he could love her, given time. He was definitely fond of her.

But what Charles believes is that marriage is basically a very strong friendship.
He really didn't have an opportunity to build such a friendship with Diana, and even if he had, her idea of marriage was somewhat different.
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  #496  
Old 08-10-2013, 04:15 PM
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I don't think Charles & Diana had a chance to build a friendship before their marriage. Their courtship was very short. Although they had fun during the courtship.
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  #497  
Old 08-10-2013, 04:57 PM
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Although I believe that Charles wasn't as directly involved in the besmirchment of Diana's reputation as she was in his, he did authorize Johnathan Dimbleby biography of him. I've reread parts of that book recently, and the impression a person is left with his that Charles tried to help Diana but was helpless in face of her serious emotional problems. Because Prince Charles did have the final say in the material that was published, he did contribute to the view that Diana was unstable. However, I certainly don't absolve Diana of anything she did by telling "Her True Story" and being interviewed by Martin Bashir.
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  #498  
Old 08-10-2013, 05:07 PM
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Both Charles & Diana needed to be in couples therapy.
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  #499  
Old 08-10-2013, 05:08 PM
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Although I believe that Charles wasn't as directly involved in the besmirchment of Diana's reputation as she was in his, he did authorize Johnathan Dimbleby biography of him. I've reread parts of that book recently, and the impression a person is left with his that Charles tried to help Diana but was helpless in face of her serious emotional problems. Because Prince Charles did have the final say in the material that was published, he did contribute to the view that Diana was unstable. However, I certainly don't absolve Diana of anything she did by telling "Her True Story" and being interviewed by Martin Bashir.
In her own book, Diana admitted to throwing herself down a flight of stairs and self-mutilation, Charles was telling the story from his side. He did not add any information that Diana hadn't already put out there. Stable people don't throw themselves down flights of stairs. A high percentage of people with mental illnesses are divorce because their spouses are helpless in the fact of their emotional problems.

Diana suffered from a mental illness. That's not an insult, a mental illness is a medical condition, like diabetes.

It's unfortunate that Diana had the courage to admit that she suffered from a mental illness, but failed to improve public understanding of mental illnesses by blaming her problems on Charles.
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  #500  
Old 08-10-2013, 05:34 PM
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Diana needed lots of love, care and attention. I think they needed some marriage counseling. Diana just didn't put blame on Charles but on her parents too. She wasn't totally ill though or unstable though.
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