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  #461  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:28 PM
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Diana and her life, actions etc will be debated for centuries to come - she isn't going to go away - she is an historical figure and the marriage of Charles and Diana was an historical event - not just the wedding but the entire marriage - one with historical fallout.
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  #462  
Old 07-31-2013, 11:41 PM
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Precisely.

Further, if all the threads which related to deceased royals or former royals were to be archived, this would only be a current events forum.
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  #463  
Old 08-01-2013, 12:36 AM
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I agree, the marriage of the Prince & Princess of Wales is historically recorded and will be forever part of history. History is not something any of us cane rum away from and that goes for the royal institution too.
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  #464  
Old 08-01-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
I would like to suggest that the moderators move this thread to the archives. Diana has been dead a king time and Charles is happily remarried. Rehashing things is not going to change anything. Time for a new start with the new baby.
It's nice that you are interested in the current events surrounding Prince George. I find the story of Diana and Charles very interesting and I learn something every time I read a new post. If you are not interested, you are not required to read the thread.
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  #465  
Old 08-01-2013, 08:58 AM
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I've always doubted that story (that Diana thought of calling off the wedding but didn't because her face was on the tea towels).

I remember that interview she gave with Charles, when she mentioned that it wasn't a difficult decision because:

"It was what I wanted. It is what I want!"

She sounded pretty determined there.
And I remember one of the Palace servents telling how, the night before, she was riding his bicycle and kept ringing the bell and shouting I'm going to marry the Prince of Wales tomorrow!

She was quite serene at the ceremony and didn't seem like someone having second thoughts. JMO.
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  #466  
Old 08-01-2013, 09:24 AM
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The wedding was a pretty happy event and overwhelming for Charles & Diana. I think they gave an interview saying that they happily cried afterwards.
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  #467  
Old 08-01-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post

She was quite serene at the ceremony and didn't seem like someone having second thoughts. JMO.
I rewatched the video after William and Catherine's wedding and she actually struck me as really stressed the day of the wedding. But I didn't get the impression she had second thoughts or was unhappy. I think she was nervous because there were hundreds of millions of people watching her at that moment and she hadn't learned to love the media attention at the time.

The most touching photo of the day was Diana, sitting on the floor with that huge dress in a circle around her, looking up at Charles, who was bending over to talk with her. She looked serene and happy in that picture.
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  #468  
Old 08-01-2013, 11:48 AM
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If we compare the two weddings we have to keep in mind that Diana and Catherine where of different age and had very different backgrounds and experience.
Catherine seemed very mature,calm and content even though there was enormous pressure on her and she was aware that she was being watched (and judged) by million people all over the world.
Diana was much younger,idealistic and excited about the prospect of her fairytale wedding. I can only guess but I do believe that she wanted to get married and hoped that somehow things would work out well.
The Princess of Wales admitted that she has met Charles only 13 times before they got married (secret tapes interview),that is not a lot and certainly a short time span to thoroughly get to know a person,especially someone as complex as Prince Charles. He always seemed to be a very thoughtful and intellectual type who cherishes traditions and prefers an understated,sophisticated lifestyle. Diana seemed more outgoing,jolly and modern in her thinking and way of doing things. I guess they have learned and benefited from each other because they complement each other in their different character traits and personalities. Unfortunately they did not manage to make their relationship work,but I firmly believe it takes two people to ruin a marriage,it is never the fault of just one single person.
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  #469  
Old 08-02-2013, 12:35 PM
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I don't think 'ruined' is the correct word, I rather believe that the marriage didn't work from the start as different as they both were, and it only started to emerge some years after the big day. Adjustment to each other and how willing/capable each party is in that particular thing plays a big role.
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  #470  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:03 PM
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Picture:
Prince Charles pinches Diana’s bottom at the Polo at Windsor Great Park in June 1985-
Princess Diana | Prince Charles pinches Diana

Picture:
Charles & Diana on their Honeymoon 1981:
http://theprincessespalace.tumblr.co...-them-on-their
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  #471  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:34 AM
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The problem with the marriage was Diana's was selfish and didn't take into consideration Charles wishes, views and feelings.

She was insensitive to her husband's feelings from the beginining.

Charles told her to decorate KP & Highgrove however she wanted.

She decorated the KP bathroom/s with cartoons of Charles, including negative cartoons.

Would she have liked to have negative cartoons of herself staring at her everyday?

She plasters her true feeling of her husband on the walls of KP. Their sons, guests and staff who visited/cleaned the bathroom/s saw these cartoons.

She decorated KP and Highgrove to suit her taste, never consulting her husband. (Yes he told her to decorate them but she still could have asked for his input.) KP & Highgrove were very feminine.

When they separated, Charles had Highgrove redecorated as a masculine place.
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  #472  
Old 08-03-2013, 02:51 AM
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I understand what you're getting at but the problem with listing such domestic examples as these, while maybe valid, is that they can come across as nitpicking. From this distance the themes should be broader and in this particular example we could say there was a failure to communicate and take into account individual sensibilities.
Otherwise the danger is that the discussion descends into a brawl where relatively insignificant slights from both sides are tossed into the ring and the tone of the discussion turns from calm analysis and considered opinion to charged polarisation.

I appreciate that there are factual examples which undermine some of the bland assertions made to gloss over some less savoury aspects of Diana's behaviour. For exmple, the statement "Diana never deliberately upstaged Charles" is easily disproved without having to go into detail about her quite deliberate upstaging of the Duchess of York's debut official engagement. But I'm not sure there's much point in dragging it all up again: members will choose to believe what they want to believe. The problem with Diana discussions, and it's something the Mods learnt from very early on, is the emotional investment and sense of personal injustice and even bitterness held very firmly and sincerely by some members. No matter how many facts are thrown around, it doesn't matter. Then there's the initial virewpoint: most of us come to the British Forum as supporters of the Monarchy as an institution with an understanding that the Sovereign is pre-eminent. That's not necessarily the case for all members who instead view the British Monarchy and House of Windsor through the prism of Diana. From that viewpoint, Diana has the rightful pre-eminent role and Elizabeth II is or should be subservient to it. For some, Diana is the one and only Princess of Wales, and the pivotal figure around which the Monarchy and Royal Family revolved and to some extent still revolve. That's just the way it is.

Those attitudes and views are deeply held and are unlikely to change. Therefore attacking them with facts or barbs only creates or heightens a defensive attitude and drains any enjoyment from the discussion. Recent experience has shown that the introduction of broader themes to a discussion will bring out the more analytical and considered observations and insights. As a result we've seen some interesting exchanges of views in what used to be dangerously contentious threads. It boils down to members talking to each other rather than at each other.
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  #473  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:01 AM
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A wonderful post Thank you Warren!
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  #474  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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Charles talks to Barbara Walter's about William & Harry:



Charles making a speech about his marriage:



Those two could be very funny together.


Diana on her 36th Birthday/ last birthday. Attending an event at the Tate Gallery:



Looking rather good and wearing the Cambridge Emerald Choker.
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  #475  
Old 08-09-2013, 05:56 PM
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Warren, could you give me more info about this? I don't remember Sarah's first official engagement, and I'd like to look up the details. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
For exmple, the statement "Diana never deliberately upstaged Charles" is easily disproved without having to go into detail about her quite deliberate upstaging of the Duchess of York's debut official engagement.
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  #476  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:12 PM
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I think that many people still think of both Charles and Diana in black and white terms. There's a tendency to still think of things as they were during the War of the Waleses during the early-to-mid-90s, when both parties in the marriage were at their lowest emotionally and were telling their memories, as they saw them, through a very dark lens. Anyone who followed those stories has a hard time being neutral on anything having to do with Charles and Diana. At least, that's how it appears to me having been in various royal forums since the late 90s.
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  #477  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:47 PM
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In all the conversation I've read on this thread I am surprised about a few omissions and wonder why these facts are not generally conceded: that Charles was indeed a very generous husband, that he was a very good father and that through most of the 80's their married life was under one roof and very much domestic and home-centered. I wonder why this is not more generally acknowledged on a forum like this with so many well-informed posters.
Because we now know that from the mid-80s that was a facade and that they actually weren't living as a family from about 1986.
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  #478  
Old 08-09-2013, 09:02 PM
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Because we now know that from the mid-80s that was a facade and that they actually weren't living as a family from about 1986.
You are right. A good portion of their lives was a façade. Who, what, when and where no longer matters. It is long past. Charles was hardly a paragon of virtue and Diana was difficult and had great problems. But, as I said. It is long past. Let the dead rest. And let the living, live a story which was made to fit the tale, today. They both had great shortcomings. Many lies have been formulated, especially for Charles, as he has had to live on and create an precept that denigrated Diana and created a myth.
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  #479  
Old 08-09-2013, 09:19 PM
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Just to clarify, are you really suggesting that Charles has created a myth to denigrate Diana? If so, would you please cite your sources.
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  #480  
Old 08-09-2013, 10:14 PM
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I can see how Charles has had to recreate people'd perception of him, and in doing so has lead to people debunking the myth of Diana...

But I don't think that the perception of Charles as it is today is a myth, nor is the perception of Diana as being a flawed person a myth. Contrary to what some individuals may believe, she wasn't a Saint. She was very human and had her fair share of flaws, something that in the height of her divorce she was very reluctant about admitting publicly (and since then some of her more fanatical fans have continued to refuse to admit).
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