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  #381  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:20 PM
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Dman, I also think Charles's interview was a mistake, but there are differences between his interview and Diana's. Charles didn't publicly attack Diana but Diana attacked Charles. Charles said "I had an affair" and "I wasn't really in love with Diana." He didn't point out all of Diana's affairs or allege that she had not really been in love with him.

Charles was also responding to Diana's allegations. Diana was the one who announced that he had never loved her and had an affair (although the affair was common knowledge by that time). The interview simply confirmed what she had been saying publicly for some time. What difference did it make at that point?

I don't blame Diana completely. Charles should have been more honest with her. Before she agreed to the proposal, he should have explained that he wasn't sure he was in love with her, but he found her attractive, thought they were compatible, and he would try and make her happy, which I think was the truth. Then Diana could have made her decision.

Charles should never have broken his marriage vows. He should have been stronger or filed for a divorce earlier, but the same could be said for Diana. I think the biggest mistake, however, was Diana's decision to declare a public war on Charles. She won in the court of public opinion, but it hurt her children, hurt the monarchy, hurt Charles, and destroyed any hope that they could have reconciled, which I think she actually wanted at that time.
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  #382  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:31 PM
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I'm sure she regretted doing her interview and I'm not saying that she was right to do what she did but stuff like that can happen due to anger, hurt and frustration. Hurt people hurt people in some cases. Diana not only talked about Charles's affair but also her own affairs.

Charles also mad matters worst when he practically threw his parents under the bus and blamed them for not showing him enough love, care and attention as a child. In doing so, he said that he wasn't able to give Diana the love, care and attention she needed.

It was a horrible time no doubt but I'm glad that all that hurt and anger calmed down in the last years of her life. Charles & Diana got back on a good footing and they put their love and attention on William & Harry. Charles had even asked Diana to accompany him on Royal Yacht Britannia's final tour around the UK before it was scheduled to be decommissioned in 1997.

There are times I wished Diana & Charles would've reunited at some point. I'm not sure that would've happened though or that even Camilla would've allowed that to happen, IMO.
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  #383  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:40 PM
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I'm sure she regretted doing her interview and I'm not saying that she was right to do what she did but stuff like that can happen due to anger, hurt and frustration. Hurt people hurt people in some cases. Diana not only talked about Charles's affair but also her own affairs.

Charles also mad matters worst when he practically threw his parents under the bus and blamed them for not showing him enough love, care and attention as a child. In doing so, he said that he wasn't able to give Diana the love, care and attention she needed.
I appreciate your point of view Dman, but I disagree. Diana only publicly admitted her affairs when she had no choice--the Panarama interview was after Hewitt went public. But the same can be said for Charles. He had tried to deny his affair with Camilla in the past.

I agree that Charles should not have done the interview and should not have criticized his parents publicly. Blaming you parents is understandable when you are 20, but by the time you are 30 (and in his case, 40+), you need to get over it.

But I was referring to the damage the interviews had done to the marriage. Charles wasn't interested in a reconciliation when he gave the interview--and the marriage was completely over at that time anyway. I think Diana still wanted the marriage to work in 1992 when the book was published.
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  #384  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:54 PM
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I think if Diana & Charles had made up their minds to get some good marriage counseling and calmly talked about their problems, it's possible there would've been a different outcome. I don't think they were given the proper chance to sort things out. Too many people were involved and I'm not sure Camilla would've been okay with it. I'm glad Charles has found love again with Camilla and they are doing great but I don't think Camilla would've let Charles go at all.

Diana was fighting a losing battle with Camilla, IMO. I think that made Diana mad even more.
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  #385  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:04 PM
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It is unfortunate that they never consulted a true professional marriage counselor. I'm not sure if the issue would have been Camilla's (or Hewitt's) reluctance. I think Charles gave up on the marriage pretty quickly.

As you pointed out, there were some good times in the first few years of their relationship. Even Andrew Morton describes hiding in the bushes (the jerk) and observing an intimate moment between Charles and Diana.

Generally, a marriage fails because the spouses fall into the pattern of one party complaining and criticizing (Diana) and the other party withdrawing emotionally and even physically (Charles). Then it becomes a vicious circle: the more Diana complained and criticized, the more Charles withdrew.

It is generally harder to get the emotionally distant person (usually a man) to engage in counseling. On the other hand, Diana's mental illness would have made counseling difficult because people who suffer from bulimia and depression have a lot of difficulty seeing things from other people's point of view.
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  #386  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:14 PM
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How do you mean Camilla would not allow it, I always laugh when I hear this. Are you trying to say she put an hex on him, Camilla had her own life, a husband and kids, to say she didn't allow it is strange, unless you have big prove that she cast a spell on Charles so he wouldn't stay with his wife, then don't accuse her of not allowing Charles go, she let Charles go the minute she married and moved on, he should have done the same, the only person who did not let Charles separate from Camilla, was Charles himself..since what 1971 or 1970...
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  #387  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:48 PM
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There is a lot of 'Wonders' and What ifs? Concerning Charles and Diana, first, i read the late 70s The Queen, Phillip and the Queen Mother wanted Charles to hurry up and find someone, Merry and produce a heir and they (mainly Philip) were getting anxious. Prince Philip and the Queen mother did not approve on who Charles wanted to merry. The courtship with Diana was quick because he needed to get married and produce a heir, Prince Phillip (like Prince Albert a century earlier) was growing impatient to Charles irresponsible approach to marriage. If Charles and Diana were given more then there months they may have found that they were not meant for each other. I also think Charles needed someone closer in age. And Charles and Diana did attends some sort of therapy session in the early 90s conducted by the Queen and Philip but it did not go well and it was too late, If they had actually seek a Professional marriage Counselor before 1990 things may have turned out Different and may have been able to work out their problems and issues instead of keeping it all bundled up. But even then I do think it would have been saved I do think Diana parents divorce had a effect on her marriage and of course the fact that she was young and was in love with the title prince of wales rather then Charles himself. They were not meant to be as they were completely the oppetsite and needed different things. Granted they were both not perfect and each made mistakes. Also blaming the breakdown of your marriage because your parents did not show enough love iny my opinion is a little obscure and was not right on Charles part. Same with Diana blaming her illness on Charles.
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  #388  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
There is a lot of 'Wonders' and What ifs? Concerning Charles and Diana, first, i read the late 70s The Queen, Phillip and the Queen Mother wanted Charles to hurry up and find someone, Merry and produce a heir and they (mainly Philip) were getting anxious. Prince Philip and the Queen mother did not approve on who Charles wanted to merry. The courtship with Diana was quick because he needed to get married and produce a heir, Prince Phillip (like Prince Albert a century earlier) was growing impatient to Charles irresponsible approach to marriage. If Charles and Diana were given more then there months they may have found that they were not meant for each other.

This is very true!
It's easy to blame Charles for not taking the time to get to know the real Diana, but there was a great deal of pressure on him at the time!
(Not only from Phillip, but from the media as well).

The press was in what amounted to a feeding frenzy; Diana was stalked, harassed, and followed everywhere. (Her mother even complained to the Times about how Diana was treated).

There were mobs of reporters and photographers outside the palace gates, until the Queen complained that matters couldn't go on as they were.

Charles even said to the press that he didn't want to be rushed, because if it went wrong, they'd be the first to blame him in five years!

(It's a pity he didn't stick to that, but he gave in, and everything quickly turned sour).
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  #389  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:41 AM
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...It's easy to blame Charles for not taking the time to get to know the real Diana, but there was a great deal of pressure on him at the time! (Not only from Phillip, but from the media as well)...
The pressure Charles was under makes his actions more understandable, but both he and Diana have to take responsibility for their actions. Diana's supporters can't just say "she was young so don't blame her," and Charles's supporters can't just say "he was under a lot of pressure, so don't blame him."

Both of them aware that they hadn't spent a lot of time alone together and both of them went forward anyway. Frankly, there have been many marriages throughout history where the bride and groom only met on their wedding day--and many of them turned out fine because both people understood they had no choice and worked at getting along.

As Dman has noted, there were happy times in the marriage, although Diana tried to deny that later. This particular marriage was complicated because of Diana's mental illness, and Charles never really understood. He had no first hand experience dealing with Diana's illness and, I think, gave up on the marriage pretty quickly.
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  #390  
Old 06-20-2013, 09:54 AM
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Diana never denied that there were happy times in her marriage. Diana had some issues and some came from her childhood days and Charles had some problems as well. Camilla played a big part though.

Diana & Charles needed some good family counseling, needed to get rid of those who were a major distraction and just sort things out. Too much were going on to give them a chance, IMO.

I just think Charles & Diana needed some major help and those on the outside (lovers, men in grey suits, media and even friends) should've given them time and space to work things out.

There were some good days and then there were some bad days. It's good to see Charles happy (at least I think so) again and I hope Diana's spirit has found peace, love and happiness too.

That's why I mentioned that they needed family counseling.

I don't think Charles should've been jealous of his wife's popularity. She was young and beautiful and had a great wardrobe. He mentioned in an interview that he took a great deal of interest in what she wore and Diana had said that he wanted her to look good.

Now we see today's beautiful European Princesses and other royal ladies enjoying a great deal of media popularity like-Mary, Letiza, Victoria, Queen Maxima, Mette-Marit and even The Duchess of Cambridge. Their husbands don't seem to be jealous of hoopla that surrounds them. It seems like (at least to me) that these Princes like that the people are crazy about they're wives. They let the girls shine in their own right.

I actually think Diana would've been very proud of Charles today. He's come a long way from the issues he had when married to Diana. The Prince's Trust is doing great and changing lives and helping the environment. Charles carried out the wishes he and Diana had on raising William & Harry. He seems more calmer and in touch with the people (at least I think so).
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  #391  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:12 PM
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Look Charles is who he is. Neither bad nor good. He has done some wonderful things and some foolish things, and as you say he is just person. To that I can relate. Also, and I think it is because of his relationship with Diana, he saw a different view towards people. Perhaps, the whole family did. Since, her death, they try to be more inclusive, shall we say. Charles isn't a bad person, he is a product of how he was brought up to be. Diana brought a great deal of openness and caring to the scenario. Those who dislike her, tend to focus on her short comings, which, certainly, did exist, but somehow glaze over her husband's. She was, actually, a kid. He was a man. But to many extents and purposes he was the petulant child.
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  #392  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:20 PM
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, She was, actually, a kid. He was a man. But to many extents and purposes he was the petulant child.
I agree with this to an extent. Charles was certainly used to getting his own way and had no idea how to deal with someone who wasn't willing to put his needs ahead of her own all the time. I wouldn't want to be married to someone like that. However, although Diana was young when they first married, she wasn't always young and even young people have to take responsibility for their actions.

No one put a gun to her head when she got married. Charles advised her to think about it seriously. He encouraged her to take a trip and discuss the decision with her mother. It was her decision.
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  #393  
Old 06-21-2013, 08:37 AM
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Just a little note to someone who may be reading this thread in the future. The moderators have taken some posts from the "Different Facets of Diana" thread and posted them here. That is why there are several posts in a row from my friend Dman. Dman's intelligent posts are actually responses to other posters on another thread.

I think Warren, the moderator, did a good job and people can follow the gist of the discussion. If you want to see the full context in the Different Facets of Diana thread, the original posts are #418 to 487.
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  #394  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:00 AM
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Generally, a marriage fails because the spouses fall into the pattern of one party complaining and criticizing (Diana) and the other party withdrawing emotionally and even physically (Charles). Then it becomes a vicious circle: the more Diana complained and criticized, the more Charles withdrew.
I agree. I think the Wales' fell into this pattern very early on in their marriage (or even during their engagement) & by 1986 both stopped trying & gave up on their marriage.

IMO, there was no turning back. No matter what Diana might have said publicly about not wanting to end her marriage. By the time she said this their marriage had been dead for 5-6 years, if not longer. (& there was no chance of reviving it.)

If they wanted to save their marriage, they should have sought counsuling during the engagement period when they both noticed their differences. They didn't. In 1982, they should have sought marriage counseling when the 1st major cracks were evident but they didn't.

The books, the media interviews, not a couple who truly thought the marriage was worth savings.

The failure of the Wales' marriage was a joint effort. A 50 - 50 effort.
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  #395  
Old 06-27-2013, 01:58 AM
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I could be wrong, but I don't think that Charles ever said that he didn't love Diana. Some of the things that Charles is believed to have said are opinions that Jonathan Dimbleby formed while doing research for his book and documentary about the press.

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Charles said "I had an affair" and "I wasn't really in love with Diana."
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  #396  
Old 06-27-2013, 02:20 AM
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I could be wrong, but I don't think that Charles ever said that he didn't love Diana. Some of the things that Charles is believed to have said are opinions that Jonathan Dimbleby formed while doing research for his book and documentary about the press.
I don't remember reading a quote from Charles saying he didn't love Diana, and I am sure that if I had read it, I would remember it. And I am equally sure that if he said it, it would have been a hot item and would have appeared in every newspaper and women's magazine many times. That's a gem that wouldn't have escaped our attention. Just think how often we still read his, " ...whatever love (or is it "in love"? He mumbles) means". Perhaps this is the statement that founded the allegation we are now reading that he said he didn't love Diana.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:07 AM
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I agree. I think the Wales' fell into this pattern very early on in their marriage (or even during their engagement) & by 1986 both stopped trying & gave up on their marriage.

IMO, there was no turning back. No matter what Diana might have said publicly about not wanting to end her marriage. By the time she said this their marriage had been dead for 5-6 years, if not longer. (& there was no chance of reviving it.)

If they wanted to save their marriage, they should have sought counsuling during the engagement period when they both noticed their differences. They didn't. In 1982, they should have sought marriage counseling when the 1st major cracks were evident but they didn't.

The books, the media interviews, not a couple who truly thought the marriage was worth savings.

The failure of the Wales' marriage was a joint effort. A 50 - 50 effort.

Sadly, all the counselling in the world will be useless if BOTH parties aren't entirely committed to making the marriage work, which also mean that both parties have to WANT to.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:23 AM
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I don't remember reading a quote from Charles saying he didn't love Diana, and I am sure that if I had read it, I would remember it. And I am equally sure that if he said it, it would have been a hot item and would have appeared in every newspaper and women's magazine many times. That's a gem that wouldn't have escaped our attention. Just think how often we still read his, " ...whatever love (or is it "in love"? He mumbles) means". Perhaps this is the statement that founded the allegation we are now reading that he said he didn't love Diana.


He may have been between a rock and a hard place when he said those, now infamous words. Who knows what reasons he may have given, shall we say, privately, for marrying Diana. A guess would be her youth, her background, her virginity, her apparent suitability and whilst I'd be willing to bet that he breathed a sigh of relief when she accepted him because it saved him having to go through it all again with another girl, I'm also willing to bet that being in love with her was NOT one of the reasons he gave because, if to him, their union was all about practicalities and logic, his emotions were never truly engaged. He couldn't, therefore, honestly, stand infront of the camara and tell the world that he was IN LOVE.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:32 AM
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I never cease to be amazed at how Charles "whatever love is" statement has been dissected and bent into a club to beat him with.

Here was a man, older than his fiancé who, when asked a totally rude and incredibly insensitive question about "Love", upon his engagement, mumbled "whatever . . . ", and has been paying for it for over 30 years! However, I do think all the other young CP's took note and learnt to ooze sugar like something out of a Barbara Cartland novel when their engagements were officially announced.

As an aside, I think you would be hard pressed to find any other common man of that age, or even younger, (outside Hollywood) reduced to gushing about "Love" to their best mates let alone the media at that time or even now. The entire concept is beyond belief.

IMHO Charles was truly captivated by Diana who, while young, was no stranger to the lifestyles of the aristocracy nor even (to a degree) royalty. She did not grow up in a bungalow washing her own dishes, she grew up in an atmosphere of wealth and privilege in one of Britain's stately gems and attended the best of schools with others of the aristocracy and royalty. She mixed with the same set as the royals all her life. Even tea with royalty was something she was used to.

She said she loved him and I am sure she did. I am also sure he was equally besotted with her but their interests were so totally different. For example, he loved Balmoral, polo and Skiing in Europe, she hated Balmoral, polo and preferred the warmth of the beaches and yachts of the Mediterranean. As to unfaithfulness, well Charles admitted infidelity "once the marriage had irretrievably broken down" whilst Diana said much the same in her autobiography (ghosted by Morton). The infamous "3 in the marriage" didn't emerge until the ghastly Panorama interview where I think Diana was desperate to divert attention from her own infidelities.

Weirdly enough, she won and she lost! Charles was deemed to have carried on an affair throughout their marriage, which I am sure was news to his supposed "mistress" Camilla, who had joyfully married a very dashing APB, regardless of whatever Charles was believed to have felt for her all those years ago. Even worse, Diana inadvertently reduced herself to a caricature of a miserably used, abused and neglected wife, thereby negating all of the positive things in her life. People always seem to write about "Poor Diana", a pathetic victim and yet she was a vibrant, happy and fulfilled mother of two adoring sons, a woman known for her many and varied charitable endeavours, a Princess by both marriage and manner. In short, a role model.
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  #400  
Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 AM
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Clip of Charles Tickling Diana:
ilovethebritishroyals

Picture:
Charles & Diana with Young William or Harry in Pool at Highgrove-
http://rememberingdiana.tumblr.com/post/34300022481
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