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  #301  
Old 08-09-2008, 11:14 AM
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Menarue, I am a professional equestrian (feel free to check my past posts which will confirm this) and I feel pretty confident that I've been foxhunting more often than you have. I am not suggesting a yahoo behind the tree as everyone gallops past. How about (since things we now know phone conversations are recorded) an in person fun loosy goosy flirty 6 hours out together getting all hot and bothered making the date, unrecorded and in the field, 'How about next Tuesday at Fatty Soames or the Van Customs and the grrrrrr (cougar sounds)'
I bow to your superior knowledge on this particular subject.
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  #302  
Old 12-16-2008, 04:17 PM
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I don't know that my opinion was changed by an event

Or even that it has changed.

I remember watching her wedding and thinking "wow, what an event! I wouldn't be her for anything, anything at all."

I watched her stumble and recover, trying to find her spot in the inflexible Universe into which she had married Thought it was cool that she was having children early on not just because, clearly, that was her role - but also because it would mean that she would still be young when the children were grown, and she could herself grow up and mature during that journey of parenthood.

I always saw her as someone who did what she could with what she had - I truly never envied her wealth or titles.

I had mixed feelings about Charles but mostly figured he was planning on using her for what he needed but that he was just too old and set in his ways to have much use for her beyond that. He was only 32 but, as he was frequently called, a "young fogey."

From my viewpoint, there was a calculated cynicism to her selection, right down to Phillip's comment that maybe she'd breed some height into the line. And I thought to myself, if she loves Charles even a little bit at the beginning, she will come to bitterly regret it.

I think he did feel warmly toward her, affectionate: bits and scraps of feelings. And that rather than seeing those hors d'oeuvres as being all he could possible dish out onto her plate, she thought they were an appetizer or salad course, and kept waiting for the entrée. It never came. Other things arrived at the table, but never the main course. And it was as though she was able to watch others feast on their entrée, right there at the same table.

But I did have some hopes that as both grew older, and age and maturity closed the gap between them, that they would find a comfortable spot in the middle somewhere.

If Diana hadn't married Charles, I think she would have married some titled chap, some landed member of the same aristo set, house in the country/townhouse or flat in London, birthed the heir and spare to him, moved in the same circles into which she was born.

Ironically, it was being Princess of Wales that was the making and breaking of her. To have married much like the other members of her class would not have raised huge expectations in her. Marrying a Royal, entering those circles with all doors open, traveling in sophisticated styles, having the world become a treasure trove of discoveries....was like a Pandora's box. It brought into play expectations far beyond anything that really anyone can dream. So much was given, so much put on her plate...but she still wanted that entrée that she saw others being served, but was denied to her.

So my opinion was not related to subsequent or specific events, but more as a mosaic of the situation over time.

My opinion is that the failure of the marriage is attributable to both parties, but that of the two, Charles had the better tools and equipment - the maturity - with which to cope and guide; thus, the failure in my opinion lies more heavily with him.

YMMV.
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  #303  
Old 12-17-2008, 12:12 AM
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This really says it all, NotAPretender. You've put it very well. And I'd like to add: Diana wasn't just a 19-year-old; she was a young 19-year-old.

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Ironically, it was being Princess of Wales that was the making and breaking of her. To have married much like the other members of her class would not have raised huge expectations in her. Marrying a Royal, entering those circles with all doors open, traveling in sophisticated styles, having the world become a treasure trove of discoveries....was like a Pandora's box. It brought into play expectations far beyond anything that really anyone can dream. So much was given, so much put on her plate...but she still wanted that entrée that she saw others being served, but was denied to her.
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  #304  
Old 12-28-2008, 12:55 PM
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NotAPretender - you express yourself very well about the life and situation of Diana, Princess of Wales. I totally agree with you.
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  #305  
Old 12-30-2008, 01:00 PM
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This really is a great, open-ended question.

I vividly remember the the bright, eye-catching colors on the covers of the gossip magazines upon her death, and although I knew who she was, I'd never taken the time to learn about her. I think this is due to my general lack of interest in celebrities, especially foreign ones. It was only this year that I started learning about this tragic figure.

Sure, I knew about the divorce from Charles and the importance of her sons, especially the more recent headlines regarding Harry. I also know that there has been a lot of dirt thrown about in the last ten years.

My opinion of her changed when I learned about her humanitarian efforts during her time as a Royal. Yes, this is directed by the many faces acting behind the scenes to craft her image, but I have to believe she really wanted to make a difference, especially since she was in such a prominent position to do so. I don't deduct points for being thrust into the situation, rather I focus on what she was able to accomplish in that situation.
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  #306  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:50 PM
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My opinion of her changed when I learned about her humanitarian efforts during her time as a Royal. Yes, this is directed by the many faces acting behind the scenes to craft her image, but I have to believe she really wanted to make a difference, especially since she was in such a prominent position to do so. I don't deduct points for being thrust into the situation, rather I focus on what she was able to accomplish in that situation.

Hope you enjoy posting on TRF Inspired. Your above statement is how I wish to remember Diana, Princess of Wales.
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  #307  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:41 PM
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This really says it all, NotAPretender. You've put it very well. And I'd like to add: Diana wasn't just a 19-year-old; she was a young 19-year-old.
So true; Diana married Charles very young, before she had ever had a chance to forge an independent identity of her own. I know that at times I am one of her harshest critics, but the fact of the matter is, she was just too young and inexperienced and then she was thrust into the limelight and the attention. It must have been extremely difficult and emotional for her.
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  #308  
Old 01-11-2009, 06:38 PM
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Wonderful Princess Diana...
ImageShack - Image Hosting :: 19830318aphotointis6.jpg
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  #309  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:12 PM
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Oh yes, one of those rather rare pictures. Thank you, queenece29. I believe it was taken when they were leaving on the Australian tour of 1983?

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  #310  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post

My opinion is that the failure of the marriage is attributable to both parties, but that of the two, Charles had the better tools and equipment - the maturity - with which to cope and guide; thus, the failure in my opinion lies more heavily with him.

YMMV.
Hmm, I really have to agree with that opinion. I came to that conclusion basically through debating the whole Charles-Diana issue on a royalty forum years ago. It was probably at least five years ago that I first started discussing Diana on royalty forums, and I remember defending Charles quite vigorously against people who saw Diana as a starry-eyed virgin used by a villainous Charles for the sole purpose of producing an heir. I completely objected to such a polarized reconstruction of events (and still do!). But even then, through those debates, I ultimately had to conclude that while both were at fault, at least in the beginning, Charles bore the greater share of the blame. He was older than Diana--not just slightly older, but in his thirties when he proposed to a teenager! He had been in several romantic relationships, whereas Diana before meeting Charles hadn't even had a real boyfriend; Charles had been royal all his life, while Diana, though admittedly the daughter of an earl, had no first-hand experience of life as a royal. And Charles had a long-standing emotional bond with Camilla that wasn't matched, on Diana's side, with any male ex-lover or friend. He had resources and experience and wisdom (or ought to have had) that she couldn't possibly have had simply because of her youth and different position in life; and even if Charles couldn't have realized Diana's emotional instability, I always have this feeling that while the marriage was ill-advised on both sides, Charles especially should have taken more time to get to know the woman he was presumably going to spend the rest of his life with.
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  #311  
Old 03-06-2009, 11:19 PM
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I think that you've stated my own opinion very well, rmay286. I believe that both parties entered the marriage with good intentions, but one of them was more grown-up and much more used to the Royal round. What would have been terrifying for a young woman from a previously private life would have been "old hat" to a 32-year-old veteran of the Royal Road Show.
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  #312  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:16 AM
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A reminder that we will not be entering a debate on the "blame game".

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  #313  
Old 04-03-2009, 01:54 AM
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I think Diana and Charles were in love at first, despite the fact they had little in common. I think her interest in country activities at first was part of an attempt to please him and his family, to fit in and then as time went by she thought she didn't need to seem interested anymore. It might have been part of an attempt to get him to marry her too. She loved him but doubtless being part of the RF on marriage was an attraction. I think it would be for any 20 year old girl. She was so young, and didn't have the experience to see that their marriage was built on foundations that wouldn't last. He should have seen that, may have had the idea of typical royal marriage, where marriages can become companionship, not love with the years and perhaps affairs are allowed. Or perhaps he thought the marriage would work, because he thought she would fit in with the RF and their lifestyle, as she seemed she would do before the marriage.

Having more in common would have strengthened the chances of the marriage surviving. She loved him though until she got older and wiser and realized that they weren't well suited and he had cheated on her. I don't think he married her intending to cheat on her with Camilla though. I believe he loved Diana and wanted the marriage to work, but he obviously always had feelings for Camilla, that he may have tried to put aside, but which where stil there. Once the glow of love wore off, Diana and Charles realized how little they had in common. Diana did love him, and had this idea of love and marriage she wanted to work.

I think Charles found Diana refreshing and different at first from other women he knew as she was so young and not experienced, and also at that time she seemed to be interested in things like the country life. But she grew up being only 20 when they married and her personality came to the fore.It seemed the happiness in their marriage lasted only a few years, but they both had to pretend longer to the world that their marriage was happy. That was a strain. Diana was very demanding of the men in her life and that was a strain on their marriage as well as Diana's popularity and the fact she didn't seem to fit in with the royals later on. Had they been able to divorce years sooner and get on with their lives earlier they both might have been happier, because their marriage had defintely fallen apart a decade or so before they divorced. Diana seemed relunctant to want the marriage to end though, I think because it meant letting go of all the hopes for happiness she had put in that marriage, although she had many affairs by then. She never really found a soul mate. Charles always had one in Camilla although events separated them for many years and they both married the wrong people. I think Diana especially had she found someone suitable to remarry to would have gotten over the whole Charles- Camilla thing. Charles had already moved on, and perhaps they could have come to peace in later years and let bygones be bygones, but it was only a year after her divorce that Diana died, so it's hard to know how things would have went. Diana and Charles were just ill matched and that combined with the pressures of being one of the most famous couples in the world was enough to destroy their marriage. It's not surprising, but it is sad.
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  #314  
Old 04-18-2009, 12:01 AM
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Grace Angel - very nicely written about Diana and Charles relationship mismatch.
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  #315  
Old 06-07-2009, 07:31 PM
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I have read many opinions that Diana's jealousy over Camilla can be taken as proof that she was in love with Charles. I don't beliave she adored him half as much as she later admitted to, I believe she wanted to be adored by him, grew to love him in a way, and felt threatened by Camilla. Threatened and humiliated, but not heartbroken, I just don't see it. If Charles had not been heir to the throne, Diana would have went for a more physically attractive prince, real or imagined. But who can blame a 19 year old for wanting to be a princess, if the sacrifice means marrying a boorish pedagogue, so be it...but I just can't believe she found him at all attractive.
I keep thinking she would have gone more for prince Andrew, they certainly had more in common age wise, and he looked more the princes part.
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  #316  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:06 PM
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I mostly agree with Grace Angel's and Lady Laura's opinioin of the marriage.
However, we will never know the entire story, with Diana death and Charles never talking of those times, so I strongly believe it is time to let it go. Does it matter now who loved who, or didn't love enough?
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  #317  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:11 PM
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Exactly Marsel, the argument is so long overdue. What's important imo is that Charles and Diana loved each other at one point.
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  #318  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:25 PM
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I agree with you, sirhon. I believe there was a time when they loved, or thought they loved each other. I think when Charles remembers Diana, he remembers all the happy times they spent together, not the saddness or the pain. After all, they have joint legacy - their sons.
Diana was an extraordinary person, who died too young without properly enjoying her life or finding herself. Let her at least rest in peace.
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  #319  
Old 06-15-2009, 02:52 PM
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I have read many opinions that Diana's jealousy over Camilla can be taken as proof that she was in love with Charles. I don't beliave she adored him half as much as she later admitted to, I believe she wanted to be adored by him, grew to love him in a way, and felt threatened by Camilla. Threatened and humiliated, but not heartbroken, I just don't see it. If Charles had not been heir to the throne, Diana would have went for a more physically attractive prince, real or imagined. But who can blame a 19 year old for wanting to be a princess, if the sacrifice means marrying a boorish pedagogue, so be it...but I just can't believe she found him at all attractive.
I keep thinking she would have gone more for prince Andrew, they certainly had more in common age wise, and he looked more the princes part.
Yes, I think she knew Andrew better at least as children, as they were closer in age. I've read that people at the time it was annouced she was marrying Charles had thought prior to that if she was going to marry one of the Queen's children, it would be Andrew. Certainly, all the arguments about Charles and Diana's marriage etc don't matter much now, but as these debates attest, it's still an interesting subject to many.
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  #320  
Old 06-30-2009, 03:01 PM
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