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  #2661  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:40 PM
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I think she woke up and found out in time, that he was her husband primarily, not exclusively.
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  #2662  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:53 PM
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Er how did she find out "in time"? She apparently didn't know of C's affair with Camilla till after she was engaged.. and then it was too late to pull out of the marriage
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  #2663  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:10 PM
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Living together

I don't agree that cohabiting before marriage necessarily makes the marriage more likely to last. In fact, statistically, the opposite has been shown to be true. My husband and I have been wed nearly 19 years and are still very happy together. However, we were pen friends for a year before we met in person, then he came to stay with me for about 18 days from America. After he went home, we decided to get married, which we had to do so that he could get a visa to work in the UK. It would have been equally true if I had wanted to move to America. A lot of couples cohabit for years, then get married, and split up soon after.
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  #2664  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Er how did she find out "in time"? She apparently didn't know of C's affair with Camilla till after she was engaged.. and then it was too late to pull out of the marriage
I believe she meant that in the way of 'over a period of time' she realised she was not the only person or thing demanding his time.

You believe Charles was having an affair before he married Diana and I most certainly don't. There is ample information to support both of our beliefs and none to disprove it.
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  #2665  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
See, imo he was ready to leave the old love behind him and start a new life (the old love was married to someone else so was off limits anyway). Imo only when the new love didnt work out (too little shared interests) he returned to the old love with whom he did share interests (which he shouldn't have done ofcourse, but nobody is perfect).

all imo ofcourse, but i do think it's possible to move on from a former loved one and start a new life with a new love.

That said, i also think C&D were too incompatible and both not able or willing to bridge the gap and at some point found it easier to go their own way, him with an old love, her with new love(rs).
As often happens in life, the relationships we have that mean the most are on different levels and not just a "love affair" or a "close friendship" or "best friend" although the best relationships have all of these attributes.

I think Countess hit the nail on the head stating that Diana discovered that Charles was her husband primarily and not exclusively. I don't think any relationship is a healthy one where it entails the belief that in order for the marriage to work, one must be totally devoted to the other person and forsake all other friendships, relationships and career responsibilities. Its stifling. Its controlling and manipulative to do so.
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  #2666  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:31 PM
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For a marriage to work it's pretty important to love the person and not sleeping with the mistress
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  #2667  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
For a marriage to work it's pretty important to love the person and not sleeping with the mistress
But Charles didn't have a mistress until after the marriage had broken down so that wasn't the reason for it to fail.
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  #2668  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
An article in the DM a couple of days quotes Diana's roommate saying Diana was going, “Oh my God I met this guy at the weekend but I have to call him Your Highness.”

That alone tells you she wasn't exactly an expert. Charles is Royal Highness, not Highness.

I do think she was a bit intimidated by the whole thing. This was 1980, not 1880. It's not liked she spent her days locked in her room practicing her curtsey and reading Latin or whatever.

She had a bit of social exposure but certainly no experience at court.
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is amazing how the media still portrays the story as Cinderella. She was far from being Cinderella - she was very much part of the Royal social sphere.
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  #2669  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
See, imo he was ready to leave the old love behind him and start a new life (the old love was married to someone else so was off limits anyway). Imo only when the new love didnt work out (too little shared interests) he returned to the old love with whom he did share interests (which he shouldn't have done ofcourse, but nobody is perfect).

all imo ofcourse, but i do think it's possible to move on from a former loved one and start a new life with a new love.

That said, i also think C&D were too incompatible and both not able or willing to bridge the gap and at some point found it easier to go their own way, him with an old love, her with new love(rs).
Wholeheartedly agree.

I have seen men, from breaking up with their long-term partners, fall in love and never ever think, communicate or form a relationship with their previous lover.
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  #2670  
Old 08-21-2017, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is amazing how the media still portrays the story as Cinderella. She was far from being Cinderella - she was very much part of the Royal social sphere.
Exactly - she had grown up around the royals and knew them and how to behave around them.

She knew who Charles was and probably vice versa although they didn't 'notice' each other romantically until 1980. It is the same with Elizabeth and Philip - who didn't 'meet' in 1939 having been aware of each other prior to that meeting. They moved in the same circles etc. but the media likes to portray these set dates because they can't comprehend the idea of someone knowing who another person was without automatically being 'in love' with them rather than a more gradual awareness of them.
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  #2671  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I believe she meant that in the way of 'over a period of time' she realised she was not the only person or thing demanding his time.

You believe Charles was having an affair before he married Diana and I most certainly don't. There is ample information to support both of our beliefs and none to disprove it.
Of course he was having an affair before he was married. He said himself that he was with Camilla 3 times, before her marriage they had an affair. After her children were born, they had another return to their relationship.. and finally he returned to sleeping with her in the mid 80s after his marriage had broken down.
And I can't imagine how Diana "found out in time".. if she only realised about Camilla when it was too late to call off the wedding.. or if she had not realised until after their marriage.
I think that it wasn't till after the marriage that Diana realised quite what C's life is like, and what royal life was going to be like.. and that her husband was very busy with a lot of interests and duties and wasnt' going to be there as much as she would want him to be...And posislby she didn't realise until she was a little older that he might always carry a torch for Camilla.. and that he and she were not likely to grow as close, without a lot of compromising and hard wrok.. and some help...
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  #2672  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:12 AM
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I don't agree that cohabiting before marriage necessarily makes the marriage more likely to last. In fact, statistically, the opposite has been shown to be true. My husband and I have been wed nearly 19 years and are still very happy together. However, we were pen friends for a year
True. I think that it is rather naïve the way people say this, that if Charles and Di had known each other longer or had lived together, they would have realised how little they had in common etc.
I think that if people really really want a marriage, they will push for it, and pressure, even if perhaps the other person isn't that committed..and even if it is not really a good relationship. And often the less committed party will give in and regret it.
However I think that in today's world, the RF have decided that it is best to give couples at least a long courtship time and for them if possible to live together discreetly before committing.
the "old ways" of a short courtship, conducted with "propriety" hadn't worked too well for Charles and Di or Andrew and Sarah.
I don't think it does any harm for couples to spend at least 2 or 3 years waiting and trying to learn all about each other before they marry.. but it isn't a guarantee.
Being married isn't the same as living together.. and that's partly because in living together there is a relatively simple "getting out"..and so when a couple who have lived together find themselves married, it becomes stifling and they realise it was all a mistake and want out.
But for a marriage to work esp if there are problems as there were with C and Diana, is HARD work and I dotn think that they were really willing to try all that hard. They DID make some effort but in all honesty I think that the gaps were too wide, she was immature and fragile. He was alos immature because of his social position.. and he already had had a comfortable good relationship that had fulfilled him.. and so it must have been tempting to think too much of his old girlfriend when he found himself struggling to get on with Diana.
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  #2673  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is .
Of course she would have known who he was, and I don't believe she would have referred to him as "that guy"... she would say "I met the POW".. and would be more likely to say that "she had to call him "Sir".
I think she hadn't met him for a time.. She had problably seen him as a kid, when she played with his brothers.
THen she likely vanished from his radar for a time, because she was at school.. and he was grown up. They met again when she was 16, and he was dating Sarah. However I don't know how much she would have seen of him till she met him at the friends' party where they sat on hay bales chatting.. She was a lot younger, and I don't think she was in his social circle.. She had her own circle of friends... and might have just run across him at a big party..
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  #2674  
Old 08-21-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
An article in the DM a couple of days quotes Diana's roommate saying Diana was going, “Oh my God I met this guy at the weekend but I have to call him Your Highness.”

That alone tells you she wasn't exactly an expert. Charles is Royal Highness, not Highness.

I do think she was a bit intimidated by the whole thing. This was 1980, not 1880. It's not liked she spent her days locked in her room practicing her curtsey and reading Latin or whatever.

She had a bit of social exposure but certainly no experience at court.


This must be nonsense! Diana's maternal grandmother Ruth, Lady Fermoy, was a close friend and Extra Woman of the Bedchamber to QEQM, so I'm sure she wouldn't have been overcome by a 'Highness'!!! (of course he was actually a 'Royal Highness', which again she would have known)
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  #2675  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:14 PM
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I agree.

She also grew up playing with Prince Andrew(in one chapter of the book Her True Story she complains bitterly abou being forced to watch the 1969 children's movie classic "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" about a flying car when she came to visit him...because it was Andrew's favorite!) On at least one of those visits to play in the Royal nursery she mentioned Charles popping his head in to say hello and to see what was going on.

She called HM the Queen who was godmother to her brother Charles, "Aunt Lilibet" and of course her maternal grandmother Lady Fermoy was an intimate of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

There is no way Lady Diana Spencer would have been unfamiliar with Royal/Court life.
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  #2676  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post


There is no way Lady Diana Spencer would have been unfamiliar with Royal/Court life.
She might not have been aware that, according to Charles, every Prince of Wales had a mistress. She was only 19 and probably didn't know much about what people in their 30's were like. She was young enough and naive enough to believe that she would have a happier marriage than her parents because she was marrying the only man in the country who couldn't ever get a divorce.

We always marry a stranger, even if we've known each other for years and have lived together. If we're lucky, the stranger is who we hoped he/she was. Diana wasn't lucky.
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  #2677  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:42 PM
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Diana's entire life changed. She went from being unknown to the general public to being HRH The Princess of Wales and pregnant with her first child within about a year. She did it quite willingly, but it was a huge change. Prince Charles didn't have to learn how to live like a royal prince or deal with the media, because he had been doing it all his life. Diana was a private person who took on a very public life.

[/QUOTE] In this context, in this thread, did the twenty year old Diana not make sacrifices in the entire changing of her way of life?[/QUOTE]
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  #2678  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:21 PM
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Don't forget, none of us knew that Diana was living at Buckingham Palace. We all thought that she was at Clarence House, with the Queen mother; so no wonder the press thought that she was being hovered over by the Queen Mother. The QM was a very active 81-year-old at the time. I expect that she had her own schedule full of things to do.

I read something just recently about Margaret riding to an event with Diana during an early engagement and telling her who to shake hands with and so on.

In "A View From the Sidelines", Michael Shea discusses how Diana was taught about the media. She was taken to t.v. and radio studios to see how things worked, and she even took calls (anonymously) at the Buckingham Palace Press Office.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana lasted one term at her Swiss finishing school before her parents relented and allowed her to come home.

I said 'curtseying etc' in my post about Lady Susan Hussey. The etc would have included various court protocols. I'm afraid a lot of what newspapers and magazines printed about Diana and her engagement activities and early marriage at the time turned out often to be a lot of baloney.

In no book (biography) that I've ever read did Diana have a lot to do with the Queen Mother. Some of the reported comments Diana was supposed to have made about being so so used to the Queen's company before her marriage weren't true, either.
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  #2679  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:32 PM
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Finally, someone who thinks like I do! Ideas about courtship and marriage are so different now than they were even in the 70s and early 80s. Consider, for instance, that the press was led to believe that Diana was living down The Mall from Prince Charles, when in fact she had a suite of rooms down the corridor from him.

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I don't agree that cohabiting before marriage necessarily makes the marriage more likely to last. In fact, statistically, the opposite has been shown to be true.
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  #2680  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:37 PM
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She was at his 30th birthday party as well. Diana would have been 17.5 years old then.

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However I don't know how much she would have seen of him till she met him at the friends' party where they sat on hay bales chatting.. She was a lot younger, and I don't think she was in his social circle.. She had her own circle of friends... and might have just run across him at a big party..
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