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  #2441  
Old 06-28-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
yes well you're wrong there. She was In love with him.. in a chldish way. and if it was after the engagement was announced there was no way that Charles or Di cold have called off the wedding.
and while yes Diana seems ot have said that Charles said something like "whatever love means" at the proposal I don't believe he did. I don't believe he was "gushing" over her, but I don't believe that he made it clear at the proposal, that he didn't love her...
So what was it about Charles himself that engendered Diana's "childish" love?
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  #2442  
Old 06-28-2017, 01:29 PM
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I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree if they had waited a year more than likely they would of parted ways.

As for the attraction to Diana, he was the only man in England that couldn't divorce her. I think she empathized with him over his loss and was drawn to his sensitivity. He probably appeared very glamorous to her as well. She knew the family somewhat ..but she might not of known enough. Teenage girl ..older man. Not the first time that's happened.


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  #2443  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
So what was it about Charles himself that engendered Diana's "childish" love?
how can anyone say what makes anyone love another person? She thought he was dashing and sporty, he was portrayed In the press at that time as "Actionman", doing a lot of exciting sports.. he'd been in the Navy.. he was seen around with pretty girls..
And she thought of him as very clever, a "deep thinker", who knew lots of stuff that she didn't know about..
The fact that he coudlnt divorce..was a plus because she wanted a secure marriage for her and her children.. and clearly she hoped he would be (because he was super rich and as she saw it had no serious resposnbilities) home a lot, a doting husband and a father who was there to provide security and companionship for her and her children. If she had "only been in love with his position", why would she have cared about his loving another woman?
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  #2444  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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I was in love with an older man when I was 19. He was handsome, gallant, charming, not rich, but brilliant and ambitious. I married him. In short order, I learned that he was cold, controlling, possessive, jealous, and selfish. He didn't have another woman, but I divorced him anyway. You just don't know things when you are a teenager, and you make mistakes accordingly.
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  #2445  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
how can anyone say what makes anyone love another person? She thought he was dashing and sporty, he was portrayed In the press at that time as "Actionman", doing a lot of exciting sports.. he'd been in the Navy.. he was seen around with pretty girls..
And she thought of him as very clever, a "deep thinker", who knew lots of stuff that she didn't know about..
The fact that he coudlnt divorce..was a plus because she wanted a secure marriage for her and her children.. and clearly she hoped he would be (because he was super rich and as she saw it had no serious resposnbilities) home a lot, a doting husband and a father who was there to provide security and companionship for her and her children. If she had "only been in love with his position", why would she have cared about his loving another woman?
If the part in bold was, in fact, how she perceived things to be, I think she was seriously delusional. The courtship would have proven that to her. The reason why they didn't spend too much time together during the courtship and the engagement was actually because of the serious responsibilities of his role as The Prince of Wales and also his burgeoning projects that were to define his role as The Prince of Wales to him personally.

Then again, there was the anecdote told often about Diana riding a tricycle with a tiara on her head chanting "I'm going to be Princess of Wales!". Whether or not that actually happened and is a reality we'll probably never know but I've read it often enough.
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  #2446  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:11 PM
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She wasn't "delusional".. She was naïve and problaby thought that yes he has to be POW, but he is still going to have lots of time to spend with me and the kids. And Charles HAS a lot of leisure.. just he had his own way of spending it and it didn't mostly involve "taking the baby for a walk".. though I think he did try for a bit.
I agree that Diana didn't fully understand the work that Charles does, and how dediciated he is to his self imposed tasks. But she only found htat out after they were engaged..
And I dont know where you got this idea of her "riding a tricylcle" with a tiara on her head.. The story, which seems to come form some equerry, and sounds to me anyway "sourced"..
was that the night before the wedding, he met Diana, who was at a loose end, and asked her to come for a drink in the equerries room
She went along. found a bike in the room and rode it around singing "IM going to marry the POW".
I dont quite see what is wrong with that, except that the version with the "tiara" etc seems to make her sound ridiculous.. If true, the "bike" story shows that she was happy, hopeful, keen to marry Charles.. and not as gloomy prior to the wedding as she later made herself out to be.
Yes of course his being POW was bound to be a part of what attracted girls to him.. but with most of them it was only a part. They were upper class, while they were impressed by his royal positon -it did not overwhelm them. They knew the RF, and possibly other Royals.. they were accustomed to great wealth and big historical homes.
So IMO Diana was impressed and pleased with the idea of marrying the Prince and being queen one day, but she was also in love with Charles as a person.

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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
I was in love with an older man when I was 19. He was handsome, gallant, charming, not rich, but brilliant and ambitious. I married him. In short order, I learned that he was cold, controlling, possessive, jealous, and selfish. He didn't have another woman, but I divorced him anyway. You just don't know things when you are a teenager, and you make mistakes accordingly.
well yes that's one experience. Diana was in love with Charles.. it was a mistake because she didn't know him well enough. But other girls of 19 marry older men and it works out fine...
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  #2447  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:13 PM
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I think that was a tale told fondly by Billy the Page, a favourite member of staff at the Queen Mother's Clarence House. He wrote that after Diana arrived at CP from Buckingham Palace on the evening before her wedding everyone was in a state of euphoria including Diana.

She, according to him, seized the bike of a member of staff which was parked in the entry hall, and ringing its bell, chanted two or three times 'I'm going to marry the Prince of Wales in the morning!' as she rode the bike round and round in a circle. Billy thought her very young and very sweet and that it was lovely.
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  #2448  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:15 PM
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I wonder, if Diana was really miserable, wanting to get out of it, threatening suicide etc...which was true? THis tale, or the "Your face is on the tea towels" stuff?
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  #2449  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:19 PM
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They could both have been true. I actually don't think that Billy would have made something like that up. Diana was troubled by thoughts of Camilla as the engagement went on more and more. However, she was also a very young twenty year old, looking forward to marrying the man she loved and caught up in the euphoria of that night before the wedding when everyone was happy. Her feelings probably went up and down day by day.
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  #2450  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:28 PM
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I thought that it was an equerry but yes C you're right,it was Wiliam Tallon, "backstairs Billy".
I think that its true, I can't imagine anyone making it up...
but I think that it does show that perhaps Diana's moods were very volatile.. or she wasn't as down and depressed and "trying to get out of it", as she made out later.
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  #2451  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I wonder, if Diana was really miserable, wanting to get out of it, threatening suicide etc...which was true? THis tale, or the "Your face is on the tea towels" stuff?
We'll probably never know. That's why a lot of reading from a lot of sources add information is a good idea. Mostly likely, like everyone else approaching a marriage, there is wonderful feelings of anticipation, love and everything is right with the world along with what is called "getting cold feet" and having those doubts creep in. Life is balance with both positive and negative emotions being having to be dealt with.

It was the same with Diana and Charles' marriage. There were periods of abject misery on both sides but also times of everything being right with the world and themselves with pure happiness. This was reflected earlier when we were discussing how the cracks in the marriage were becoming evident but also that the period of Diana's pregnancy with Harry being deemed by her as one of the happiest times in the marriage.

There is another thought that occurred to me about the courtship and engagement period. They did spend very little time together and most likely, that time was spent getting along with each other. What I'm wondering now is if they ever really had a chance to experience not getting along with each other during that period. Did they even have a chance to fight with each other before heading to the altar or were their reactions to each other when the fights started after the marriage a new experience?

It makes sense to me then a quote I believe I used elsewhere earlier. "Know what we call a couple that never fight? Divorced." How Charles and Diana handled disagreements before their marriage could have been another eye opener.
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  #2452  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:39 PM
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but that's another odd thing, that Di said that her pregnancy with Harry was such a happy time and then when he was born, it all went downhill.
She's making out that Chas just was waiting to "have the second child" and once H was born he was then returning to Camila full time. So I'm sceptical!
it doesn't make a lot of sense.. esp when she threw in the bit about Chas wanting a girl etc. If he were really planning to go back to Camilla, why would he care what sex the second child was?
I agree that its possible that Charles and Di did not have rows during their courtship.. though she did say they had a filthy row about Camilla prior to the wedding.
I think ti IS possible that they never argued, perhaps because she was keen to agree with him all the time.. and I suppose that whne they got engaged and married, and rows broke out, it was something they found hard to cope with.
Also, in Tina B's book there is a bit about the film about them that was made.. in around 1984 or so.. where the interviewer asks if they ever argue.. and Diana was very insistent that "no we dont", while Charles said more reasonably "most married couples do argue."
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  #2453  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:39 PM
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According to Penny Junor's new book they had a few fights about Camilla over their engagement period. Junor isn't all that complimentary about Charles's emotional deafness to Diana's insecurities actually, which surprises me. She doesn't spare criticism of Diana in this book either, but is sympathetic to her worries at the time they were engaged.
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  #2454  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:57 PM
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well yes that's one experience. Diana was in love with Charles.. it was a mistake because she didn't know him well enough. But other girls of 19 marry older men and it works out fine...
Yes, some girls who marry young marry a man who is what he seems to be, and not just who he pretends to be.
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  #2455  
Old 06-28-2017, 04:07 PM
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but that's another odd thing, that Di said that her pregnancy with Harry was such a happy time and then when he was born, it all went downhill.
I don't find it at all odd. The period where the wife is pregnant with child is a time a woman also experiences more "caretaking" by the husband. Whether it is because the husband sees it as a "delicate" matter or the fact that it is "his" child is debatable. All men react differently to their wives during pregnancy but it does garner more attention for the wife. After the baby is born, the deed is done and its back to normal business with wife and mother safe and sound. Perhaps it all went downhill because Diana missed the attention. Who knows?
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  #2456  
Old 06-28-2017, 04:14 PM
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Actually, at the onset of their courtship and their subsequent engagement, I do believe there were three in the picture. Diana, Charles and The Prince of Wales.
Well said! Why hasn't anyone else said this? Inspired.

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This puts into a nutshell what I was trying to point out earlier. I seriously believe that when Charles married, it was The Prince of Wales at the altar rather than Charles, the man. Charles, the man, wasn't being pressured to marry. The Prince of Wales was.
Yep. And if we consider the character of the man, I really doubt he intended anything other than being a good (and faithful) husband to Diana. He is a man nailed to the cross of duty. Why, in this one very important instance, would he deviate? It makes no sense imo. He deviated later, but not from the get-go.

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I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree if they had waited a year more than likely they would of parted ways.

As for the attraction to Diana, he was the only man in England that couldn't divorce her. I think she empathized with him over his loss and was drawn to his sensitivity. He probably appeared very glamorous to her as well. She knew the family somewhat ..but she might not of known enough. Teenage girl ..older man. Not the first time that's happened. LaRae
Exactly. She likely also mistook his honed polite style (with a stranger) for what he would be like as an intimate 24/7. It was a train-wreck waiting to happen. She had no clue how different a man can be day-in-day-out, and for that matter, how she herself would change, how she would be under the strain of 24/7 intimate living.

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If she had "only been in love with his position", why would she have cared about his loving another woman?
Because she was a controller/manipulator, maybe? She was jealous by nature. Jealous of his time, his friends, his dog, his servants. Possessive. From a distance and with Diana's spin it seems she has a point regarding Camilla, but I wouldn't take that spin to the bank. It's all hindsight. Look at the pictures of Diana in the mid to late 80's, she looks pretty darn content and happy, and very much at ease with skewering Charles in public (and delighted to be doing so, in fact).
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  #2457  
Old 06-28-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville
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yes well you're wrong there. She was In love with him.. in a chldish way. and if it was after the engagement was announced there was no way that Charles or Di cold have called off the wedding.
and while yes Diana seems ot have said that Charles said something like "whatever love means" at the proposal I don't believe he did. I don't believe he was "gushing" over her, but I don't believe that he made it clear at the proposal, that he didn't love her...
No 'Diana seems to have said' about it.

The entire world heard him say it in the engagement interview.

His actual words are 'whatever in love means' as clearly heard here.
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:46 PM
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Given her stalking and other various antics, if she had not been titled and attractive and rich, she would have had a long criminal record and ended up committed for her own safety and that of others. As for her relationship with her kids, parading her various lovers and her emotional issues she placed on William's shoulders she would have lost visitation rights. I get fed up with how every rotten thing Diana did to people was excused on so many grounds by so many people. Frankly after her divorce she could have really pulled it together, but chose to make even bigger messes and caused a lot of pain to a lot of people.

Even her vaunted love affair with Dodi was in fact built on a breakup; supposedly Dodi was engaged to a former model Kelly Fischer, but few people like to remember that.
Wound up looking that up. Was curious.

LINK: Dodi's ex-fiancée tells inquest of 'betrayal' - Telegraph
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  #2459  
Old 06-28-2017, 07:50 PM
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In fact, when Dodi was summoned by his father to be a part of the summer vacation with Diana and her boys, Kelly was actually in the area on a different yacht at the time.

One thing about this Dodi/Diana romance is that it evolved at the speed of light and that why I could never accept it as being a serious relationship.

But... we meander once again off topic. Maybe this is best suited for Diana's Lovers and Friends thread?
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  #2460  
Old 06-29-2017, 01:31 AM
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I don't find it at all odd. The period where the wife is pregnant with child is a time a woman also experiences more "caretaking" by the husband. Whether it is because the husband sees it as a "delicate" matter or the fact that it is "his" child is debatable. All men react differently to their wives during pregnancy but it does garner more attention for the wife. After the baby is born, the deed is done and its back to normal business with wife and mother safe and sound. Perhaps it all went downhill because Diana missed the attention. Who knows?
I think that Diana's "agenda" there was to say that Charles was nicer to her during thte pregnancy...because he was thinking "Oh good she's about to have our second child,, the succession is now secure and I can go back to Camilla full time". But she also threw in stuff about how Charles was annoyed that Harry was not a girl and "had red hair".. and if he was really jus being nice to her because he was thinking with relief that he could now abandon his marriage, soon, he would hardly care about whether he had a daughter or a son..
I think that she was just rambling, in a way, tumbling things out, and half remembering stuff and putting the worst construction on everything Charles did.
that's why I feel that Morton is a very unreliable book and shows Diana at her most unhappy, confused and lashing out, in her unhappiness...
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