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  #2421  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:19 PM
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Botttom line, they just weren't suited and did not love each other in the real meaning of the word. Apparently.

They had two sons over a couple of years, Diana loved Charles, Charles loved Camilla.
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  #2422  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:36 PM
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I'd like to alter that a wee bit to read "Diana was in love with the idea of being in love with Charles". When she married, I think she was the one that should have said "whatever in love means."
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  #2423  
Old 05-07-2017, 07:44 PM
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I would alter it to "Diana was in love with the idea of being in love with the Prince of Wales and heir to the throne."
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  #2424  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:38 AM
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Please note that posts relating to Camilla's attendance at Charles and Diana's wedding, subsequent speculation and responses have been deleted - please see Mod note posted yesterday.
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  #2425  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:04 PM
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One thing that remained consistent though from the early years is that even today, Charles, Camilla, Anne and Andrew Parker-Bowles remain close friends and are often seen with each other. Those friendships have survived all the ups and downs and the twists and turns of life.

For me, this is something that shows relationships between these people went a lot deeper than just bed hopping and sordid affairs and drama as you'd expect to see on some reality show. In some respects, it makes it easier for me to understand just how close knit Charles' inner circle of friends were and to a newly wed young bride, finding a niche where she belonged in it was a huge, daunting prospect and she mostly could have felt like an outsider looking in.

I know that even I would find it uncomfortable to be married to someone who had an already existing close circle of friends that I found not only totally different from myself but one my husband felt very at home with. It helps me to understand why Di had a huge "me vs. them" attitude when it came to Charles' free time and his friends.
She had far more than a jealous streak. It's not for nothing it's called 'the green-eyed monster.' The real problem exists when jealousy is seen as 'justified' and 'normal', rather than the defect it is that needs transforming.

Had she been a bit more clear-eyed (and centered in herself) she would have understood that Charles would have been as loyal and devoted to her as to any of his friends (and then some as his wife and the mother of his children). We are forever seeing him and that relationship through the imperfect gauze of Diana's imperfect expectations and skewed experience. Treating it as 'truth' when it was never that really.
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  #2426  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:20 PM
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I agree with you m'friend. It would be a good topic to move to one of Diana's thread if we want to continue with it though as this thread doesn't include Diana's relationship with Charles.

My point was to establish just how close in the earlier years those friendships formed in Charles' circle and remained that way to this day. Kind of like a continuing cast of characters.
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  #2427  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:22 PM
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She had far more than a jealous streak. It's not for nothing it's called 'the green-eyed monster.' The real problem exists when jealousy is seen as 'justified' and 'normal', rather than the defect it is that needs transforming.

Had she been a bit more clear-eyed (and centered in herself) she would have understood that Charles would have been as loyal and devoted to her as to any of his friends (and then some as his wife and the mother of his children). We are forever seeing him and that relationship through the imperfect gauze of Diana's imperfect expectations and skewed experience. Treating it as 'truth' when it was never that really.
Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.
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  #2428  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:59 PM
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Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.
It's beyond disturbing for anyone to come down hard on Diana because her husband couldn't let another married woman go. It's like getting mad at a wife for daring to get upset that her husband is getting busy with another woman in her own house. None of it makes sense.

Then again, many now see Diana as just a thorn in the side of a couples very successful love story.
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  #2429  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:53 PM
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Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.


Thank you, thank you, thank you
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  #2430  
Old 06-27-2017, 12:14 AM
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Yes, Countess. Perfect!
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  #2431  
Old 06-27-2017, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.
We are a long ways off topic. Maybe a moderator could move all these posts to the correct thread?

You misread what i was saying and I'm not sure my trying to untangle the misreading is a worthwhile endeavor at this point. Only to say, Diana had all the cards (even Camilla told her that) and she blew it.

You are convinced that he entered the marriage in ill-faith because that's what Diana told you he did and you believe her, so there is really nothing much to say. As long as that is your context, as long as you see Charles as 'a cad' and the evil perpetrator of a deception, every rationale will flow from that supposition. There's really no discussion.

I do agree that Diana should not have married The Prince of Wales. The public would have been saved a lot of drama had she just refrained from satisfying her ambition to snag him. Not so?
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  #2432  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:17 AM
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And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry. And he himself said so to Dimbleby.
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  #2433  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:23 AM
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And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry.
If Diana was 'in love' with Charles why did she want to call off the wedding, why was she looking around the church?

She was 'in love' with being a Princess - not Charles the man but an image.

They didn't even know each other.

Sorry but this was an arranged marriage and both wanted out but were pushed into by their families.

If they had been any ordinary couple they would never have married as neither loved the other.
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  #2434  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:41 AM
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Diana was in love with Charles, wished to marry him (and I for one wish the marriage had never gone ahead) but became increasingly perturbed by never getting a clear answer about his feelings for Camilla during the engagement. (Junor herself says this.)

Diana did become increasingly nervous about how Charles really felt as the engagement went on and she wished to withdraw. I don't believe however that this was an arranged marriage in any way, (the Queen, according to Dimbleby didn't express any opinion yea or nay as to whether he should marry Diana) though they certainly didn't know each other very well.
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  #2435  
Old 06-27-2017, 05:37 AM
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And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry. And he himself said so to Dimbleby.
And he basically said so to Diana when he proposed to her, according to Diana herself, and also to the public during the engagement interview.

According to Diana when she cried when saw Charles off to Australia it was because of she was in turmoil regarding Charles not being over Camilla. That was in March and IMO in enough time to call off the wedding.

Yes Charles proposed to Diana but he did not propose to her because he was in love with her nor did he lead her to believe that was why he proposed to her. If Diana wanted a marriage where both parties were in love with each other she had ample information that was not the case with Charles, nevertheless she accepted his proposal.

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I actually think that Diana was in love with Charles' position and not Charles himself.
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  #2436  
Old 06-28-2017, 01:41 PM
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And he basically said so to Diana when he proposed to her, according to Diana herself, and also to the public during the engagement interview.

According to Diana when she cried when saw Charles off to Australia it was because of she was in turmoil regarding Charles not being over Camilla. That was in March and IMO in enough time to call off the wedding.

P.S.
I actually think that Diana was in love with Charles' position and not Charles himself.
yes well you're wrong there. She was In love with him.. in a chldish way. and if it was after the engagement was announced there was no way that Charles or Di cold have called off the wedding.
and while yes Diana seems ot have said that Charles said something like "whatever love means" at the proposal I don't believe he did. I don't believe he was "gushing" over her, but I don't believe that he made it clear at the proposal, that he didn't love her...
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  #2437  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:01 PM
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Actually, at the onset of their courtship and their subsequent engagement, I do believe there were three in the picture. Diana, Charles and The Prince of Wales.

Diana hardly had time to get to know Charles, the man, on a deeper level considering how short the courtship and engagement was. It went the other way too. Charles hardly had time to get to know Diana, the person, too.

Camilla was an external factor. No denying that she was there but had Charles and Diana really gotten to know each other, that issue of what was, what is real at that time and how it should be perceived by both parties would have and could have affected the entire outcome of their relationship.

Definitely a good lesson in look before you leap.
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  #2438  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:13 PM
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I do believe Diana was head over heels in a Barbara Cartlandish romantic mist sort of way, and that Charles hoped that love would come. I certainly don't believe that he ever intimated to Diana before their marriage that he didn't love her.

However, I remain convinced that if Charles had decided he and Diana would take one year to get to know each other, if he had resisted the pressure to wed that was coming from many directions, then after more dating they both would have realised they just weren't meant for each other. Both would have then gone on to other loves. Who was it who said 'What if..?' is the saddest phrase in the English language'?
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  #2439  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:17 PM
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I think he 'intimated' to millions of folks with Diana present he didn't know that he loved her....whatever love is....


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  #2440  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:20 PM
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However, I remain convinced that if Charles had decided he and Diana would take one year to get to know each other, if he had resisted the pressure to wed that was coming from many directions, then after more dating they both would have realised they just weren't meant for each other. Both would have then gone on to other loves. Who was it who said 'What if..?' is the saddest phrase in the English language'?
This puts into a nutshell what I was trying to point out earlier. I seriously believe that when Charles married, it was The Prince of Wales at the altar rather than Charles, the man. Charles, the man, wasn't being pressured to marry. The Prince of Wales was.
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