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  #2241  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:10 PM
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Perhaps she thought that the weekends at Highgrove, away from London, would be just that: weekends at home, enjoying each other's company. She knew that Prince Charles hunted and played polo, but perhaps she thought that he wouldn't do it quite as much as he did once he had a wife and family. If I were a 20-year-old bride, I'd think the same thing. I'd want him with me during our time off together, particularly in the first year or two after the marriage. I don't know about other places; but where I live, there's an assumption that people will spend a lot of time alone together in the first year of marriage or so. There isn't the assumption that they'll be going out as often.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:06 AM
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he did cut back on his hunting and shooting in the early years of marriage and he wrote to his friends before marriage telling them that he wouldn't have so much time to spend wit them now he was married. But I think that when stuck at home or wherever, together, they both found that there wasn't muc to talk about and they probably found each other rater tiring company. Diana was pregnant and Charles did make an effort to take her away on sunny holidays in the winter, to cheer her up.. and I think that in the first year or so, in spite of rows there were loving times.
but she was ill, depressed bulimic and not always easy to live with. And he tried to be a paitient loving husband and to understand her moods and her change from "loving the country" and "hanging on his every word".. but it was hard for him. And she still loved him but now "up close" I think she found him boring and hard to understand and she lashed out at him.. and he wasn't really used to that.
so even in the early few years it was a lot of stress and pain and "not really adjusting" though they did try.
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  #2243  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:25 AM
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One thing we do know is that when it came to the whirlwind courtship between Charles and Diana, Charles was between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he did, there were expectations and he would be letting someone down. He
In the end, Diana seemed on paper the right one to take the plunge with. Unfortunately it was a plunge into a tsunami.
yes Osipi, It was drummed into him that he should make a sutiable marriage, to a girl who had no past, who was a well bred unmarried girl preferably... who was a Protestant and knew what royal life was about.
that wasn't necessarily a disaster. He might have fallen passionately in love with some girl of that sort in his mid 20s.. or he might have chosen woman he was fond of, had interests in common with, and built a good loving relationship. "Passionate overwhelming love" isnt' IMO a necessary foundation for a good marriage. its bound to fade and you need something solid underneath it.
And IMO a lot of people, when the "passionate love" fades, they get bored and restless or confused... don't make the effort to build something new and solid, and end up divorced.

Charles might have been madly in love with Diana, and found her a young beautiful charming girl..at the time of marriage..
He might have felt thtat he loved Di, that he loved her more than he'd ever loved Camilla and married her happily... but I think he would still have found out within a year or 2 that she and he had little In common. and that she was fragile emotionally and not really able to cope with the strains of married life or being part of the RF without a huge amount of help.. and that she bored him and he bored her..
And if he'd split with Diana after a few months dating, he would have had to start again, because he was getting to the age when he was expected to marry.. I think the public wanted it, the RF wanted it, and unless he wanted to be a 40 year old Dad to his kids and to be marrying a girl nearly 20 years his junior, he DID (as Philip put it) need to get ON with it and get himself wed.
If he had left Diana, then in 1980, he might have attracted a lot of bad press, for leaving a popular and lovely young girl, after flirting with her and raising her expectations.
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  #2244  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:26 AM
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I can say I am grateful divorce was no longer seen as unthinkable. And that these two didn't stick it out. Yes I wish Diana was alive, but the divorce was best for all. Even for the sons, staying together for kids makes no one happy.

It was more than a difference in hobbies but personalities. Diana wpuld never be a good consort. She said it herself she wanted to be queen of their hearts. But it was not the role she was meant for. Charles would be king. And she the consort. Like Philip, the consort is meant as the supports one step behind the monarch, not the Center of focus. Diana would never be someone to stay a step back, to support her husband in his role.
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  #2245  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:30 AM
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Sort of agree, but I don't think tht Diana meant to overshadow Charles.. It just happened. And I don't think it was necessarily bad, if she and he had not been unhappy because then she got tempted to use her glamour and star quality against him..

It is terrible that Diana died before maybe she had a chance to find a lovig husband.
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  #2246  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:34 AM
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I think with the make up of Dianas personality it is very difficult, if not improbable to find a companion to be happy with for the rest of your life. Only if she had matured and grown in her personality and found resources in herself to be happy.
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  #2247  
Old 04-06-2017, 03:15 AM
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The trouble is, they had barely twelve dates before getting engaged. He was 32 and in spite of the pressure to wed, should have taken more time. If they had dated for ten months to a year, the chasm between them on almost every level might have been clear.

All the same, after they had become engaged Charles showed little propensity to change his lifestyle even a tiny bit. From Sally Bedell Smith's new biography of Charles,
'On weekdays Diana scarcely saw Charles. Even after their engagement she wasn't a priority for him. 'I tend to lead a sort of idiotic existence of trying to get involved in too many things and dashing about' he said shortly before his wedding day. 'This is going to be my problem- trying to sort myself and work out so that we have a proper family life.'
Yet he showed no inclination to shed even the smallest commitment, whether for his work or his sporting pursuits, in favour of spending time with his new fiancée.'

'One of Charles's biggest mistakes was a six week long overseas trip to Aus, NZ and the US, beginning on March 24th. Granted, it had been planned six months in advance, along with the rest of his crowded diary, but for the sake of his relationship with Diana he could have trimmed his duties or at least curtailed his trip.'

On the night of the second wedding rehearsal, a party hosted by the Queen at BP for hundreds of friends and relatives saw Diana alone. Sally Westminster, widow of the 4th Duke, said afterwards that 'Charles left his bride for several hours to spend time with the Goons comedians in another room.' 'The pathetic little Lady Diana was left alone to make conversation with people she did not know.'

Shades of Charles not taking note of people he supposedly cared for once again, a la being oblivious to Anna Whiplash Wallace's feelings when he danced with Camilla all night at a ball.
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  #2248  
Old 04-06-2017, 06:50 AM
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I think it is better to show the "real" you warts and all, which is what Charles did, than to create false impressions to snag the prize which is what Diana did. I think that there is enough blame to go around in the failure of the Wales marriage, and while I judge Charles for being a self-involved jerk and other things, the data was there and Diana made an informed decision.
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  #2249  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:05 PM
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she iddn't create a false impression, she did IMO ignore the affair with Camilla and blinded herself to it.. but she got on well with chalres at first because she had made herself belive that she liked all the things that he liked..
and he - being used ot people agreeing with him and no doubt believing that they ReaLLy really agreed, rather than just being polite because of his positon, DID believe that she was a country loving girl who enjoyed sports and the rural life, an simple things and that she was eager to learn about the more intellectual matters that he liked to think about . but she was genuinely fooling herself that she DID enjoy the same things.. I think that it was only after the marriage when she had prolonged exposure to the RF and to Charles, that she realised "I hate a lot of this stuff".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There are certain things in a marriage that no matter how much you try, you're never going to get your other half remotely interested in. Even in my "golden" years, I have yet to have a spouse get me interested in American football and after 20 years, if my hubby hasn't gotten the bookworm bug yet, it ain't going to happen. We're totally opposite in a lot of ways such as he's TV and I'm on the computer. He likes junk food and I love my salads.
of course that's true, but people have to have something in common and Charles and Di had almost nothing. they loved their children and that was about it. And for very rich people, hobbies are probably what does bind a couple since they don't realy have the same "sharing ordinary life", experiences.. they don't HAVE to work, they don't have to look after the kids themselves, their wrok such as it is, si chosen for them, so their hobbies are probably their main way of expressing their individualities..
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  #2250  
Old 04-08-2017, 01:01 AM
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Its slightly off topic perhaps but a propos the RF it seems as if THEY TOO believed Diana was a nice country loving girl who would enjoy being at Highgrove with Charles, being a wife and mother, finding pleasure in simple things.. like the garden and the country...They didn't see Di's more volatile side, they didn't think that she was unsuitabe for Charles because she was younger and not much educated. They were pleased to get her into the family because she seemed to love C and was young pretty and charming and the public loved her so she'd be an asset.. so if you like it wasn't just Charles who was fooled or who wasn't aware that he and DI were incompatible.
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  #2251  
Old 04-08-2017, 04:15 AM
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Diana was a very in between person. She felt like a misfit in the royal family. She was below her station with the staff and she had never found a truly stable and loving relationship with anyone on a give and take basis.
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  #2252  
Old 04-08-2017, 05:31 AM
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Please note that several posts have been edited/deleted. This thread is about Charles and Diana. It is not a discussion to create or speculate upon what other members of the Royal Family might or might not have said or thought. Also, ss requested many times before, let's keep Camilla out of the equation please.
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  #2253  
Old 04-11-2017, 03:29 PM
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Diana was a very in between person. She felt like a misfit in the royal family. She was below her station with the staff and she had never found a truly stable and loving relationship with anyone on a give and take basis.
I don't think she had much chance. She and Charles were a dreadful mismatch and she was married to him all her adult life. She hardly had time to have any sort of "open" dating with other men, as she was only free of her marraiage finally in 1996.
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  #2254  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was a very in between person. She felt like a misfit in the royal family. She was below her station with the staff and she had never found a truly stable and loving relationship with anyone on a give and take basis.
I think James Hewitt qualifies as a stable and loving relationship across the 6 years or so that it was maintained, at least on Hewitt's part. Diana was dallying even while in that relationship so I'm not sure Diana had it in her to ever stay loyal to one man. It just seems the case. There is this significant myth that Diana needed to find 'the one' to have peace and happiness 'ever after'. I just don't think she was wired for that (the way Charles was, for example).

Consider that she had married the one man who, as even she declared, would never divorce her. Yet, she succeeded in detonating that nuclear explosion: what never could happen did indeed happen under her aegis. It took some doing but she got it effected. To me that's evidence a-plenty that Diana was not looking for stability. If she was, she would have made other choices.

For me this is the single haunting question: why couldn't Diana live the quiet, nested life she claimed she wanted? A snap of the fingers could have achieved it and she'd be alive today. It's a curious thing.
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  #2255  
Old 04-14-2017, 10:12 AM
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What snap of the fingers? What "nested life"? It would harldy have been a "nested life" with Charles...
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  #2256  
Old 04-14-2017, 11:14 AM
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What snap of the fingers?
It's a figure of speech. Not sure what to say to explain it. I am saying that she had the money, the influence, and the (social) power to shape her own life as she chose. After her separation, and most definitely after her divorce when she effectively exited the BRF, Diana could have lived a quiet life with only the few obligatory appearances tied to her position vis-a-vis her sons.

In fact had she been so inclined to live there is the possibility she would have been able to marry the doctor. As I say, she'd be alive today had she been able to un-focus from the crowd.

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What "nested life"? It would harldy have been a "nested life" with Charles...
In my book Diana lived a 'nested life', very much so, as does The Queen. With Charles she got addicted to the adulation of the crowd. It's a very sad story. In fact, it's the one thing she could have really taken a lesson from Charles concerning, and from the whole of the BRF: how to live a life privately away from the public eye.
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  #2257  
Old 04-14-2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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It's a figure of speech. Not sure what to say to explain it. I am saying that she had the money, the influence, and the (social) power to shape her own life as she chose. After her separation, and most definitely after her divorce when she effectively exited the BRF, Diana could have lived a quiet life with only the few obligatory appearances tied to her position vis-a-vis her sons.

In fact had she been so inclined to live there is the possibility she would have been able to marry the doctor. As I say, she'd be alive today had she been able to un-focus from the crowd.



In my book Diana lived a 'nested life', very much so, as does The Queen. With Charles she got addicted to the adulation of the crowd. It's a very sad story. In fact, it's the one thing she could have really taken a lesson from Charles concerning, and from the whole of the BRF: how to live a life privately away from the public eye.
Diana felt a lot of love and comfort from the people because she wasn't getting much of that in her private life. When your husband is more interested in comforting his plants then you, that leads to issues.
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  #2258  
Old 04-14-2017, 12:26 PM
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I don't really know what it means, Sorry. to me a nested life would be a cosy family life, and she didn't have that. when she finally got free of marriage, her boys were growing up and they were also naturally at the age where they were starting to leanr about hteir royal obligations, and were bound to be taken over a bit by Charle's family, so she could not really have a cosy private life iwht them.. they were not going to be there for much longer.

I don't believe she would ever have been abel to "marry the doctor" as Khan was very much unwilling to commit to a woman who wasn't what his family felt was right.. ie a muslim from his country and "of good birth"..
He came from a traditional culture and seems to have bene very much tied to it.. no matter how he loved her. And he may have felt that having been the wife of a Prince she could never have just become the wife of a working doctor. SO I think she was in a position of having to look for a man who was ultra rich, who would not feel financialy and socialy inferior to her.. so it wasn't as if she could "just snap her fingers" and find a cosy "nested life".
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:48 PM
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Diana felt a lot of love and comfort from the people because she wasn't getting much of that in her private life.
Love and comfort 'from the people'? That was Diana's tragedy. She was addicted to the falseness of the crowd's adulation.

But behind your comment is your failure to put Diana in context: she had a lover for 5-6 years. She was feeling love and comfort (as long as it suited her to keep him on her string). And while she had the lover she was dallying elsewhere, too.

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When your husband is more interested in comforting his plants then you, that leads to issues.
I am likely the only one here who has a very different view of Diana's intentions when entering the marriage. This is wholly my own view based on the character of the woman as I have observed in the record available: namely, I believe Diana fully intended to partake in the aristocratic free-form marriage scenario common then. (Camilla had such a marriage, for example, and Diana would have known that, both before and after they were friendly).

Your comment is out of Diana's spin, she gleefully ridiculed Charles in several instances that got taken up like hounds to the scent by the tabloid press and 'the crowd'. Diana was only ever distracting attention away from her own considerable marital transgressions.

Diana painted a self-portrait of victim-hood that I have never been able to 'buy'. Diana was having plenty of fun with her flirtations and lovers. It was only when she was getting caught that she began the spin. She was a master of managing her press, I will say that.

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I don't really know what it means, Sorry. to me a nested life would be a cosy family life, and she didn't have that.
But she could have. That is a choice she could have made. For some reason, she didn't.

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when she finally got free of marriage, her boys were growing up and they were also naturally at the age where they were starting to leanr about hteir royal obligations, and were bound to be taken over a bit by Charle's family, so she could not really have a cosy private life iwht them.. they were not going to be there for much longer.
True, but here is the problem: a 'cosy private life' is what we make it, with friends and interests, not just children. To create a cosy private life was in her power. She had the wealth and freedom to have a pretty nice private life, children or not.

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I don't believe she would ever have been abel to "marry the doctor" as Khan was very much unwilling to commit to a woman who wasn't what his family felt was right.. ie a muslim from his country and "of good birth".. He came from a traditional culture and seems to have bene very much tied to it.. no matter how he loved her.
Okay, I was just giving that as an example.

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And he may have felt that having been the wife of a Prince she could never have just become the wife of a working doctor.
I think this is a bit ott thinking. We are getting into class and status issues that I cannot comment on. The idea that Diana was too high-flying (to marry 'beneath her') because of her connection to Charles just goes to prove one of my points about Diana: she was who she was on the world stage because Charles chose her as his first wife. Full stop. Not married to Charles, no world stage.

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SO I think she was in a position of having to look for a man who was ultra rich, who would not feel financialy and socialy inferior to her.. so it wasn't as if she could "just snap her fingers" and find a cosy "nested life".
Curious line of logic. Firstly, I don't think Haznat Khan felt inferior to her, and I don't think any worthy man would. Love is love, if its love.

What Diana was doing with Dodi Fayed (who was obeying his father) was very, very far from love and a necessity for her. (Methinks you are applying Jackie Kennedy Logic, when she married Aristotle Onassis, to Diana).

A cozy nested life is made, is created, by oneself. It's a choice. Yes, with a snap of the fingers she could have stopped calling the press to tell them where she would be so they could get photo-ops. She could have made her public profile less and worked more behind the scenes. She had the where-withal for all that, with Charles' and likely the resources of the BRF at her disposal. Instead she made other choices and she died. Sad story.
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  #2260  
Old 04-14-2017, 02:40 PM
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FOr Diana, I think that a "cosy nested life" would have included a husbadnd and children and that was nto that easy to find. Idont knowwhat you mean by your remarks about class and status. The fact is that as an "ex princess" who had been married to a future king, she was going to seem "above" many men who might have been her equals socialy and financially when she was single. that's a fact, she was still the mother of a future king and the divorced wife of a future king. her status didn't drop THAT far.
As regards status issues, and money issues I'd say that any man with any pride would feel that he should be on some kind of level pegging with his wife..
so as I've said Diana had to go to the "super rich" and was dating Dodi Fayed, but I am not sure if she was very serious about him and she seemed to be getting bored with him by the end of their holiday. Of course Khan did not feel inferior to her as a person, but I think one of his issues with her was that he felt that as a former princess, she would not be able to become the wife of a doctor.
As for your remarks "I believe Diana fully intended to partake in the aristocratic free-form marriage scenario common then" I think that you are completely wrong.
If that were the case, she would never have cared about Camilla. She would have been quiet about charles' affair because if she wanted to go on having affairs herself, her best protection was to be part of the RF who would protect her... and for Charles to be busy with his mistress and busy keeping his indiscretion from the Press.
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