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  #2221  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
. . . The Morton book - who knows why Diana was involved in that and then lied about it (just one of the many lies she told to the press and public). What did she hope to achieve? If she hoped to have Charles return to her that was never going to happen after than. I was surprised that she wasn't sent packing the day after that book came out - any other man would have turfed her out immediately and without a penny either.

But to the Diana fanatics it is the 'truth' and they refuse to even consider Charles' version of events.

The Panorama interview was doubly cruel - saying Charles wasn't up to the job of being King was bad enough along with saying she wanted to be Queen of People's Hearts (both treasonous in themselves) but doing it on The Queen and Philip's wedding anniversary shows how cruel she really was.

She committed treason and admitted it. That is why the Queen ordered the divorce. Previous wives who committed treason were executed and lost custody of the children.
The thing about 'Diana: Her True Story, was that while it was that while it was obvious someone had been talking, Diana was adamant the it was not her and, her schedule didn't have any glaring Morton meetings in it.

It's one thing to know Diana was involved, another to prove it. It did, however, set the stage for the Panorama interview and after that it was obvious that HM and probably Prince Philip, were of the "cut your losses, and expedite the divorce". Strangely, I think Diana felt totally in control of the situation and the last thing she was expecting was a divorce let alone an expedited divorce.

It wasn't until after her death that the galleys were seen with her notes in her handwriting quickly followed by the publishing of 'Diana: Her True Story -In Her Own Words' that the truth was finally, told. At that point there was no denying that Diana didn't stay an ingenue very long, but became a viper when crossed. Every vicious accusation, unkind word and cruel accusation came from none other than Diana herself, taking a chance to get a little payback for all her real and imaginary slights and she didn't care who got hurt, including her sons.
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  #2222  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:23 PM
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Let's not forget Charles public interview about his marriage....he certainly played his part in the demise.


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  #2223  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:31 PM
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not to mention the fact that as royals they were bound to go to Eton, Harrow or some other public school...and they ARE the elite of society, that's why they are at Eton, with other royals and upper class kids.
I agree that William is hardly a playboy(he's been with the same woman for it seems like 20 years now) and Harry is hardly one either, he's too "one of the lads" to be a playboy.
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  #2224  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Let's not forget Charles public interview about his marriage....he certainly played his part in the demise.


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His interview was only after the marriage had "irretrievably broken down", and a few years after they had separated.
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  #2225  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:46 PM
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Charles's interview preceeded her interview...by several months to a year IIRC.

Neither of them had any business talking about it like they did.


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  #2226  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Charles's interview preceeded her interview...by several months to a year IIRC.

Neither of them had any business talking about it like they did.


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1992: The Andrew Morton Book
1992: Separation
1994: Dimbleby interview
1995: Panorama interview
1996: Divorce
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  #2227  
Old 04-03-2017, 04:01 PM
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Correct.


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  #2228  
Old 04-03-2017, 04:39 PM
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The Queen and the rest of the family weren't happy with Charles and Diana's interviews. It was very stupid moves, but I think people just have to understand that this was a couple who were in a very difficult and painful time in their lives. It's not easy going through a rough and tough separation and later divorce.

I don't excuse their behaviors, but I don't trash them for it either. Charles and Diana's private problems spilled out in public, because they failed to dissolve their issues at home in the proper and private manner. I also think those around them failed to help them do that.

Royal duties and responsibilities to the institution of the monarchy, country and Commonwealth is very important and I will never dismiss it. But when it comes to private and personal matters at home, a future King and Queen must take the time to straighten out those issues properly and for the sake of their family. The duty and responsibilities to each other as, husband and wife, and as parents, is far more important than anything else.

Don't take care of your problems at home, everything in ones public life will eventually fall apart in front of everyone.
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  #2229  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The Queen and the rest of the family weren't happy with Charles and Diana's interviews. It was very stupid moves, but I think people just have to understand that this was a couple who were in a very difficult and painful time in their lives. It's not easy going through a rough and tough separation and later divorce.
I don't think anyone should underestimate how still relatively new the pervasive press atmosphere was - the older generations couldn't give good advice for how to handle it, since none of them had dealt with quite that animal before, so Charles and Diana's generation of royals were having to feel out new territory. Their peer royals in other nations also tended to be much more open to having their smaller moments play out in front of cameras, thinking of it as part of "being seen to be believed." That once-unheard-of openness to the press had actually started within the British family pre-Diana, when the Queen allowed documentary film to be made within the palace showing the royals going about their day, etc. But of course, it's a thing that becomes more fraught once marital discord comes to play, and especially once that discord becomes public.

I think it's also important to remember that their trouble was playing out at the same time that both Andrew and Anne's marriages were also falling apart. There were so many fires quietly burning left and right in that family at that time, it's no wonder one of the conflagrations burned out of control in a very public way. I have to wonder if HM and Prince Philip would have been more hands-on or focused in guiding the couple to a quieter handling of things if they hadn't seen simultaneous crumbling relationships among all of their married children.
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  #2230  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:53 PM
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My husband and I didn't. True, it's not possible for a couple to know absolutely everything about each other before marriage, but it's not true that "every couple tell a lie to each other."

As to the country/Balmoral issue: It seems that Diana enjoyed the country enough when she lived in it. There are many pictures of her as a girl and teenager enjoying country things. I'm sure that Balmoral was charming on visits there, and Diana also had Prince Charles to concentrate on during her visits. For a young woman who lived with friends of similar age in London and who based her life there for a couple of years, spending two months in a remote location with people she didn't know that well and in circumstances that were new to her--well, that would un-nerve more than a few people.

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Every couple tell a lie to each other when they're perusing a relationship. That's how life goes. I'm sure Charles told her some lies too.
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  #2231  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
My husband and I didn't. True, it's not possible for a couple to know absolutely everything about each other before marriage, but it's not true that "every couple tell a lie to each other."

As to the country/Balmoral issue: It seems that Diana enjoyed the country enough when she lived in it. There are many pictures of her as a girl and teenager enjoying country things. I'm sure that Balmoral was charming on visits there, and Diana also had Prince Charles to concentrate on during her visits. For a young woman who lived with friends of similar age in London and who based her life there for a couple of years, spending two months in a remote location with people she didn't know that well and in circumstances that were new to her--well, that would un-nerve more than a few people.
The lies couples tell each other don't have to be very bad lies. There are little lies couples tell each other when they're dating. Lying about liking football because ones partner loves watching football. Things like that.

I think Diana would've enjoyed being with the royal family of today. Mingling with her sons, daughter-in-law, grandchildren, Wessex's, Tindall's, York's, etc. When she joined the family in 1981, the family was pretty dull and everyone acted much older than they were. Can't be easy for a young 21 year old girl to adapt to that.
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  #2232  
Old 04-04-2017, 04:02 PM
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I agree that most people and couples do fib a bit, unless they are terribly high minded.. Men go and see soppy movies, women go and watch sports.. and they pretend they are having fun. but usually after marriage they begin to GRADUALLY slide out of the things that they dont really enjoy doing. Whereas Diana abruptly went from "enjoying country sports with Charles" to suddenly HATING it and resenting his going off and doing his shooting.
I think that Di enjoyed "country life" to an extent as a kid but as a young adult she was bored with "hunting shooting and looking out at a rainy day," and longed to go to London and began to enjoy urban life much more. Even though she liked sports, they were non blood "urbainite games "and pastimes like the gym, swimming, tennis.
I think that while she had grown fed up with blood sports and muddy boots for quite a while before her marriage, what really hit her on the honeymoon was that she was stuck with this lifestyle.. that the queen was cross because she was bored and scared by the Balmoral house party.. that Charles realy LOVED his sports and couldn't do with out the stress busting relaese that they gave him..
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  #2233  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:04 PM
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Maybe, just maybe, Diana envisioned a country life with a husband that would be constantly by her side rather than preferring to keep up with doing the things he really enjoyed about country life. Long walks alongside the River Dee with someone who adored her and kept her on a pedestal as the only person in his life would maybe have enhanced liking country life rather than distracting from it.

If I remember right, Diana's complaint was that she was left alone to her own devices while Charles was off doing things she had no interest in.
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  #2234  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:37 PM
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And loved another woman. That's the rub.
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  #2235  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:57 PM
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At the beginning, I think Charles did love another woman but was committed to his marriage and becoming "in love" with his wife. What was threatening to Diana was the fact that she knew that there was a friendship that ran deep with someone else and that ol' green eyed monster reared its head and Diana was determined that kind of strength of friendship belonged to only her and set about to try and manipulate it so that Charles had no choice but to focus on her and her alone.

A mature person would have realized that of course a person has strong friendships outside of the marriage and would have had a better advantage to get to know and like those that Charles did. Y'know... the old keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. It was this kind of threat that began the downfall of the relationship between Charles and Diana IMO. The more she cut him off and tried to control things, the worse they got. No one likes to be manipulated. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership built on love and trust and honesty and frankly, there was very little of that to start with in the first place.
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  #2236  
Old 04-04-2017, 09:28 PM
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It amazes me how this topic just goes on and on. It's pretty simple really. If you marry someone while you are in love with someone else it's not going to work. Plain and simple
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  #2237  
Old 04-04-2017, 09:34 PM
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My point was that at the time of marriage, we don't know that Camilla was the have all and be all in Charles' life. Certainly they were close, intimate friends and that circle also included Camilla's husband Andrew along with their two children.

I think its very well in the realm of possibility that Charles had a warm, intimate and close friendship relationship on a platonic level at the time he married Diana. He did feel that perhaps having Diana for his wife would be a relationship that could grow into something deeper and that was his intent on marriage. He never figured that the rest of his friends would ultimately be cut off from him as a result of said marriage.

We really don't have any concrete proof of where Charles' head was on the day of his marriage but I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt.
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  #2238  
Old 04-04-2017, 10:01 PM
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I don't think, if true, the remark that Princess Margaret made to friends on the eve of the engagement, as the news seeped through, that she hoped 'Mrs Parker Bowles will let him go' made that prospect very hopeful.

Regardless of how Charles felt about Camilla, whom he had seen on and off since his early twenties and for whom his feelings were very deep, I think the primary emotion in Charles's heart on his wedding day should have been overwhelming love and passion for his bride. This was the young woman he was to pledge his future life to in front of the altar.

And so, from the fact that he did not feel anything for her apart a fondness, and the belief that he could grow to love her, came all the miseries that we know of afterwards. Because, of course, if great love isn't there blocking out thoughts of any other woman, then a union starts off on a wrong footing from the beginning.

Plus of course they were completely wrong for each other temperamentally anyway and Charles should have taken his time, realised it and not proposed!
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  #2239  
Old 04-04-2017, 10:59 PM
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One thing we do know is that when it came to the whirlwind courtship between Charles and Diana, Charles was between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he did, there were expectations and he would be letting someone down. He had it drummed into him that he must marry and provide the heir and the spare to the kingdom and as he grew older, the viable brides for him were getting fewer and fewer. He didn't really have the option of falling in love with whomever he chose but there were limitations on just who he could fall in love with.

In the end, Diana seemed on paper the right one to take the plunge with. Unfortunately it was a plunge into a tsunami.
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  #2240  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:04 PM
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My point was that at the time of marriage, we don't know that Camilla was the have all and be all in Charles' life. Certainly they were close, intimate friends and that circle also included Camilla's husband Andrew along with their two children.

Ithat could grow into something deeper and that was his intent on marriage. He never figured that the rest of his friends would ultimately be cut off from him as a result of said marriage.

We really don't have any concrete proof of where Charles' head was on the day of his marriage but I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think she was very important to him but perhaps even he didn't realise it at the time.. that he thought he could cool his love for her down to a loving platonic friendship and go from being fond of and attracted to Diana to being deeper In love. But he and Diana had so little in common that the love didn't have much of a chance to grow. I don't believe that Diana reaelly cut him off from people, I think she DID expect a lot of attention from him but she was a young romantic girl, and didn't realise that he was a busy man and also a bit of a loner.. and when she felt neglected, ill and depressed, she got more irrational. and that put Charles off her...
And she and he were beginning to realise that when they spent time together they didn't have much in common. So I think that Diana did at times beg and yell for him to leave his friends alone - esp Cam and spend more time with her.. but at times it was simply that he felt that she was ill, pregnant and depressed and needed him.. as was proper, to spend more time with her and let his friends get on without him. But I gather that ove time Diana excuse herself from attending parties with his friends and either stayed home alone or went out with her own pals.. I don't believe that apart from Camilla, she cut Charles off from his friends.

I don't think she realy saw them as having a "rural life" together, she imagined they would mostly be in London.. and woud not be stuck in the country on a rainy weekend at shooting parties...
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