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  #2041  
Old 09-12-2016, 04:56 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
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I've always been drawn to intelligent, quiet guys. Geeks work for some of us.
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  #2042  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I've always been drawn to intelligent, quiet guys. Geeks work for some of us.
Well there's a place for everyone. I think that Diana was in love with Charles but she was deluding herself. She DID admire him for beign so clever, as she thought of it, and he was the POW and he was an older man, and her father had let her down a lot... all these things drew her to him. But she began to find the "clever talk" incomprehensible and boring..and I think as she got more fed up with him, she began to feel that her own practical knd of intelligence was just as good if not better...
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  #2043  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Prince Charles offered Princess Diana different choices for her thirtieth birthday on July 1, 1999: lunch, dinner, a ball. Diana refused all of these.
I assume you mean 1991. Considering the state of their relationship at that time, I'm not surprised she refused to be part of that sort of fake exhibition of unity. As it is, she had a lunch at the Savoy in aid of the Rainbow House Hospice, and a dinner in a function room at the Natural History Museum. There is a video on YouTube of her attending the lunch, but there were no photos at the dinner. Apparently Charles spent the day in the country.

Here's an interesting little contemporary article by Washington Post staff writer Roxanne Roberts, that suggests Hewitt may have celebrated Diana's birthday with her: washingtonpost.com: International Special Report: Princess Diana, 1961-1997
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  #2044  
Old 09-14-2016, 04:20 AM
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Mistake.. I wonder was it turning 30 that made her decide to out the troubles in the marriage? that she felt she was getting older nd could not put up with being in a mrraige with a man who didn't care for her much longer?
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  #2045  
Old 09-22-2016, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I rea

H

It's well known that the Queen never interferes with the love lives of any of her children (or grandchildren.) Doesn't do it now, didn't do it in the 1970's. So who laid down this edict to Charles that 'No, a girl who has had previous boyfriends or a serious relationship is completely unsuitable. Your wife HAS to be a virgin (and therefore very young).'

Whd previous boyfriends?
I dont think that it is true to say that the queene doesn't interfere, I think that nowadays she IS more pro active in terms of her grandchildrens' love life. it is said that she has advised young couples in the RF to be in a relationship with anyone they are serious about, for about 5 years.
I think that one reason it was so long before Will and kate got engaged was that noone wanted him to go into a marriage like his father's. They wanted him to be as sure as one can be, that he was happy with Kate.
THe queen also allowed Edward and Sophie to live together in the years after Diana's death, at B Palace, because I think she now realised she HAD to get involved a bit more in her family's marital lives to make sure that no more dramas and scandals occurred.
And she didn't NEED to say this to Charles "Remember your wife has to be a virgin". It was a given..
That was why Philip DID chivy Charles along when he was courting Diana, saying apparenlty "If you dont get on with it, soon there wont be anyone left".
By the time of Andrew and Sarah in the mid 80s the social climate had changed. It was a LOT free-er, and as Andy was the second son, it was possible for him to do somethig that Charles could not do.
And with Edward, she went a step further and clealry siad to him "Live with Sophie before you get engaged."

Then in the next generation, AFAIK, pretty much all the young couples who married, Like Will and Kate, or Zara Phillips and her boyfriends, were live in couples for a while before they married.
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  #2046  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:21 AM
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In your opinion! Statements of fact need to be backed up by a credible source and your allegations about Charles, his parents and his subsequent marriage are not.

As far as I'm aware Charles wife didn't have to be a virgin . . . she just didn't have to have "a past" that could come back to haunt them. Charles knew he would have to marry . . . that's a no-brainer, but HM and Prince Philip's words are your own.
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  #2047  
Old 09-22-2016, 08:00 AM
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And how woudl her past not possibly come back and be a problem, if she were not a virgin? Davina Sheffield lived with someone who talked to the newspapers and that finished her romance with him.

As for Philip -as far as Im aware, it is quoted in charles's biography by Dimbleby that Philip wrote to him saying that he should get on with his romance with Diana, and I understand that Charles showed the letter to friends as an indication of Philip pressuring him.
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  #2048  
Old 09-22-2016, 03:08 PM
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Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.
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  #2049  
Old 09-22-2016, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.
well she's problaby not going to say that too loudly. But I have seen articles in the paper at the time by conservative commentators saying that the queen should not have allowed him to live with Sophie.. SHe probably kept an apartment - why not? I Understand that Kate too kept an apartment but mostly lived with William.
Well Im glad that you agree that Phil did write a letter which Charles showed ot friends. It may not have literally been an ultimatum but it clearly was Philip giving some "advice" and probalby wording it strongly.. and saying (which was IMO fair comment), that if C didn't sort things out with Diana and get himself engaged.. that it would look bad and that if he let her go, and had to start again and find anothter young woman, sooner or later there would be noone left, unless he was going to marry someone more than 20 years his junior.
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  #2050  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:29 PM
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I don't think it went so far as that, even. AFAIR Bradford in her Diana biography, having got the gist of the letter from one or two of those who saw it, said that Philip was a bit impatient but the letter was temperate and reasonable. It supposedly said that Diana was only a very young woman and had been spotted at Balmoral etc by the Press, (who were by then going quite wild with excitement.) Therefore, (the letter went on to say, apparently) Charles should make up his mind sooner rather than later as to whether he was serious about Lady Diana, as otherwise her reputation might well be damaged.
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  #2051  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:55 AM
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I think that Charles interepreted it as pushing him.. because it was. Phil is a bully and he's impatient with Charles. And C knew that it was time for him to marry. he knew that Diana was in terms of breeding, reputation etc a perfect wife for him and that it was true that if he let her go, he would have to start and find antother girl to marry, and the next well bred Protestant virgin might be younger, less pretty, less sweet..
I find it hard to believe that anyone thought Di's reputation would be damaged by a perfectly respectable courtship with the heir to the throne. But I think it would haven been a bit of bad press for C if he'd gone out with Di whom the papers adored by then, for some months and then dropped her..
and I think that he knew that if he did let Diana go, Phil would probably be on his back then and saying "Come on, Charles make your mind up. YOu let that Di Spencer girl go, everyone was cross with you and now you're 32 for Gods sake, its time you got married."
Because He HAD reached an age where he relaly had to decide, and get himself wed. and I think he did have an attraction to Diana, liked her..but had a few doubts and fears and was probably uneasily conscious that he still cared a lot for Camilla. and that if he let this perfect young woman go, Phil and even the queen might start gioing on to him about it..
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  #2052  
Old 09-23-2016, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Much is made of Charles' devotion to Camilla; I think that is true now, but back then?
There were many, many other women in his life, it's not like Camilla was the one and only.
The rivalry and hostility between Camilla and Kanga Tryon was notorious in that circle.

Plus there were others, like Whiplash Wallace, Jane Wellesley, and Davina Sheffield.

So I really don't think it was Charles' love for Camilla that sabotaged his marriage to Diana. I believe the problems in the marriage drove him back into Camilla's arms, but before that, I think he and Diana simply didn't mesh the way they'd hoped.
Yes there had been other women in Chalres' life. Thats quite Normal IMO. But Camilla was the one he kept going back to, as a friend or a lover.
I beleive that he was very attracted to Anna Wallace but I dont think she was a serious candidate for a wife.. Nor was Jane Wellesley. I think that these were physical relationships, passionate but short lived.
And when the marriage to Diana went wrong, it was Camilla he turned to, not any of his other old girlfriends. Im not saying it was "the perfect love" because it wasnt.. noone has a perfect love. But I think that it was the one that was really special.
I believe that with a girl he was fond of, who hadnt got Di's problems, Charles would have put aside Camilla and grown to love her.
But that wasn't what he got..and he needed Cam to be his confidante..

I think he WANTED to love Diana, did up to a point but basically once they were married her problems kicked in and became huge ones.. and he just found it very hard to live with someone bulimic, who was ill and bad tempered and moody and unhappy, and who refused to get help.
And Sadly I think the whole marriage etc really added to the damage in Dianas psyche, and she became a very difficult person..
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  #2053  
Old 09-24-2016, 02:02 AM
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I remember a Daily Mail article (yes, I know) I read some months before Charles and Camilla wed that stated during the time the couple had a serious relationship when Camilla was still single, Charles dithered around trying to make up his mind whether to ask Camilla to marry him. The story went on to state that Charles, instead chose to take on a naval assignment that would have out to sea for a while. That Charles dithered so much, Camilla grew tired of Charles lack of decision and soon took up with Andrew Parker-Bowles whom she had known and was friends with. When they married, Charles was devastated.
The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.
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  #2054  
Old 09-24-2016, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
I The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.
That story has been around before Katrianna, I think its in the film version of "Diana her true story" and possibly Andrew Morton has it In the book, I dont know.
I don't really think it is likely. Maybe Charles did think of proposing to Camilla, but I think he realised that there would be difficulty in getting permission because of her past, and she was also heavily involved with Andrew PB.. not exactly the ideal situation for a future queen that she's been having an affair with a notorious womaniser and seems to be as much in love with him as with her royal suitor. So I don't really believe that Charles seriously thought of marrying her. But its certain that when she married Andrew PB he was upset and felt devastated.. Perhaps he hoped that she'd remain single and be around for him, for a longer time.
And I think that back then Camilla was fond of her prince but wasn't as much in love with him.. she was in love with Andrew and hoped to persuade him to marry her. and I believe she wasn't interested in a public life either, and would have been reluctant.. maybe not totally unwilling but would have not been very sure about giving up her freedom for a lifetime of cutting ribbons..
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  #2055  
Old 09-24-2016, 08:32 PM
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Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post. Camilla was and still is a country life woman and I'm sure would not have relished the "royal life and spotlight" and she surely would not have liked the press scrutiny of her sexual backround if she had accepted a proposal of marriage from Charles. She had her sights set on Andrew Parker-Bowles and the quiet country life that came with such a marriage.
As we all know by now, Charles and Camilla married another person, but as history would have it, life took a different turn than it should have, especially for Charles and his marriage to a beautiful popular aristocratic girl.
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  #2056  
Old 09-25-2016, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post

Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post.marriage.
.
I think she also loved Andrew much more than Charles then. I think that she got fed up with Andrew within a while, not enough to break up with him, but annoyed at his constant womanising. It was probably amusing before they got married but hurtful and tiring to cope with when they were married.
I think at first Charles was someone she was very fond of, and it was a thrill to be the Princes' girlfriend, but she didn't want to marry him. and she problably would not have been OKed by the queen.
but gradually I think that she grew to love Charles more and while still fond of Andrew, she was annoyed by him more and turned to C for the affection and devotion that And didn't give her.
I know Charles is a ditherer, and maybe he DID dither about "I love Camilla, maybe she would be a good person to marry"... but I don't think he was very committed to the idea. I certainly don't think he went off ot sea and Camilla decided not to wait for him...
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  #2057  
Old 09-25-2016, 08:10 AM
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I do believe Charles was the one for Diana. Sadly, the same sentiment wss not returned.

Had she cared less (and if so why bother?!) her life could have been very different.

Prince Charles was the love of Princess Diana's life, her close friend claims
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  #2058  
Old 09-25-2016, 08:35 AM
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I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...
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  #2059  
Old 09-25-2016, 02:58 PM
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I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...
I don't think they did. A bit yes, but I don't think that Di had reached any real acceptance of Charles' being with Camilla... I think she was polite for the sake of the boys, and because people were getting a bit fed up with the whole drama and if she had continued to look as if she was still at odds with him, she might put the public off her.
Charles was I would say the same. He had got to a point of very very fed up iwht her and maybe as the divorce went through, he began to lose the resentment and anger.. but it was just happening gradually.
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  #2060  
Old 09-27-2016, 04:19 AM
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Yes, I can't imagine all the pain and hurt feelings going away once the divorce went through. Had Diana lived into middle age and beyond after the divorce, perhaps they could have become warm friends again. However, had Charles married Camilla while Diana was alive, even years after the divorce, I think that Diana might have had a problem with her having any kind of relationship with William and Harry. I think that it would depend on whether Diana found a good man and established a stable relationship or marriage of her own, perhaps with another child or two. A dream situation would have been Diana and Charles with their new respective spouses and happy at their sons' weddings. That would have been a "happily ever after" in itself. However, life taking the turns that it did, that wasn't to be.
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