20th Anniversary of the Death of Diana, Princess of Wales: August 31, 2017

[royal rob]

Considering that this was about William Harry and their Mother I don't see why Charles was ever going to be in it. When he dies they no doubt will talk about him

 

[M. Payton]

You said that Brilliantly Marge, just perfect! No one knows what really happened there at that time yet many make Charles the evil out of all this. He is so underestimated and misunderstood man of his times. He loved and loves his children deeply and wants only what is very best for them for they in the very end are *his children* after all. This is one very strong family unit who has stood the tests of time and anger and hate and are still strong to this very day. Now let the haters be at rest and stop this discontent for it shows just how horrible the human race can be at times. Let Diana rest in peace for all times and move on!

 

[ladongas]

You said that Brilliantly Marge, just perfect! No one knows what really happened there at that time yet many make Charles the evil out of all this. He is so underestimated and misunderstood man of his times. He loved and loves his children deeply and wants only what is very best for them for they in the very end are *his children* after all. This is one very strong family unit who has stood the tests of time and anger and hate and are still strong to this very day. Now let the haters be at rest and stop this discontent for it shows just how horrible the human race can be at times. Let Diana rest in peace for all times and move on!

Amen! And let William and Harry deal with their own memories without having the general public trying to tell them what they should think.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The doubts arose because the princes themselves said they weren't given any support to deal with their mothers' death. Now they are saying the family was there for them - which is it - no support or support?

These are conflicting statements - so they lied in one of them - but which one - the 'no support in coping' or 'had support'.

What about Harry - 'no child should have to walk behind the coffin' or 'glad I walked behind the coffin' - which is the truth? Again one is a lie but which one.

Sorry - I can no longer believe either of them as they have been shown to be liars during these interviews with saying one thing in one interview and the opposite now.

Indeed, I feel the gentlemen should shut op. The same with the claim that Prince Philip used a four letter word when confronted with "Blair spin" that the boys would have to walk behind the coffin. Well, in the end the boys simply walked behind the coffin anyway, strong four letter word or not...

I feel this was a tragic event which led to never-seen eruptions of mass emotions but what happens these days is really milking, milking and milking an old cow completely dry, and the two boys are helping torturing the poor old cow by feeding the milk machine...

They shoudld have gone the way of their grandparents and parents: friendly waving and remembering the poor soul of the late Diana in private

 

[Curryong]

The brothers have a perfect right to talk about the mother they loved so much 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years after her death if they wish to. They loved her, were inspired by her work, and want to talk about it. They've been silent about her for most of their adult lives.

What 'friendly waving' did Charles (the boys' remaining parent) do on the day of the funeral? He looked sad and worried. And also walked with them. So did grandfather Prince Philip. The Queen (grandmother) didn't restrict herself to remembering Diana in private. She, and other members of the Royal family, came out of BP and bowed their heads as the cortege moved by. They attended the funeral. Hardly private, any of it, nor any friendly waving. They'd been all absolutely stunned by public reaction.

 

[royal rob]

Payton
You say "no one knows what really happened at that time " and then tell us Charles loves them and are a close family so if we don't know what happened because we weren't there how did we know what sort of father Charles is ??

 

[MARG]

You are right Rob, we don't know what sort of father Charles, or any other royal father for that matter, is. But William and Harry spoke about him and I do believe we can accept their version of how much they are loved rather than the tabloids.

As to the Minister not speaking about Diana I can only see it as the beginning of protecting the boy and if HM was removing televisions and hiding newspapers, I should think the last thing anyone wanted was for Diana to be mentioned in the prayers for the dead for the very simple reason that the boys would undoubtedly have been upset, perhaps even cry and they had yet to return to the safety of Balmoral.

Bertie, your comments about walking behind the coffin are answered by William and Harry themselves when the talk about the weird and strange behaviour of members of the public wailing and crying. Nobody knew that would happen.

Nobody could have imagined that half the goings on following Diana's death would have happened. After all, it wasn't terribly British and as I watched from NZ I have to admit to being creeped out at times. The nearest thing I had ever seen was a documentary of Eva Peron's funeral.

Such events had never happened before in Britain and will probably never happen again. But the saddest thing of all for me is that those who are one side or the other of the Charles/Diana divide are now basically calling William and Harry liars for saying anything positive about their father or worse, accusing him of having the documentary "altered" to reflect a love and care for his sons that didn't and obviously doesn't exist.

Does anyone else think that we've just hit an all-time low with such sick accusations?

 

[wyevale]

Does anyone else think that we've just hit an all-time low with such sick accusations?

Well. YES.. but nothing surprises "Never apologise and [especially] NEVER EXPLAIN" would certainly have been my advice to those most closely involved in this tragedy...

Anything and everything 'made public' has been and will be distorted and re-interpreted to suit different narratives, so silence will always be the wisest option...

 

[Osipi]

All I'll say is that even in the worse of times, both Charles and Diana were in agreement on how to raise their sons. When Diana died, I don't think that Charles would have just walked away from his role as a parent. We don't know what they're like in private, that's a given but then again, I've never seen any inkling of discord between father and sons either.

 

[BMC]

IMO it is entirely possible that the princes experienced and still experience conflicting emotions about the break up of their parents' marriage and later on their mother's death thus the contradictory comments.

Charles is their father and they love him. At the same time they may loathe him for causing their mother so much pain. Families are complicated that way.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, I agree. That could very much be the case. And it could well have been twenty years of such conflicting emotions.

 

[Lee-Z]

"Loath" is a very strong word to speculate about...imo...

 

[JR76]

IMO it is entirely possible that the princes experienced and still experience conflicting emotions about the break up of their parents' marriage and later on their mother's death thus the contradictory comments.

Charles is their father and they love him. At the same time they may loathe him for causing their mother so much pain. Families are complicated that way.

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

 

[Dman]

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

No, they didn't loathe their mother for her behavior during the break up. Listen and read all the interviews William and Harry has done this year.

 

[duchessrachel]

I don't think this is the last of it. "The Crown" (which is Netflix's #1 show) plans to do two seasons on Charles and Diana. The creator and writer says Diana will be introduced at the end of season 3 and will be the focus of season 4&5. So if anything, a whole new generation will be introduced to Diana.

I love The Crown. I will be very interested to see how they handle the Charles and Diana story. I have heard that the Queen and Prince Philip watch it--not sure if that is true.

 

[duchessrachel]

Plus aren't there plans to do a series of Feud about Charles and Diana. Unfortunately, the coals are just going to get raked over again and again.

I would also place a bet that these programmes are going to be somewhat myopic (hasn't the producer of Feud already admitted to being a fan of Diana). I doubt there will be much balance and its all going to be how evil Charles and Camilla hurt poor, little, innocent Diana while haughty Anne, cruel Philip and the cold hearted Queen stood by and ignored her cries for help. This is entertainment after all, not a pretense at history. Every story needs a villain and a hero/ine. This story was cast 20 years ago.

I think there are plans to do that. That series concentrated on Bette Davis and Joan Crawford last season, but I can't remember the name of it.

 

[JR76]

No, they didn't loathe their mother for her behavior during the break up. Listen and read all the interviews William and Harry has done this year.

Of course they didn't loathe her. Neither do they loathe their father. It's called sarcasm...

 

[BMC]

"Loath" is a very strong word to speculate about...imo...

"Hate" isn't much better.

 

[BMC]

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

Perhaps they do but we were discussing their relationship with their father.

Like I said families are complicated.

 

[ladongas]

Yes, families are complicated! And inasmuch as none of us on this board are members of the BRF, it's possibly, even likely, that our versions of the 'facts' are wildly inaccurate.

 

[Lee-Z]

I just hope there isn't any hate or loathing or anything of the sort between any the people involved (alive or dead)

not a fact, not even my opinion, just my sincere wish

 

[cepe]

No member of the public has seen the BBC programme yet. All this commentary is based on what the press have seen in preview, so its their interpretation.
It doesnt txm until Sunday.

Sometimes this gets lost. Take the Newsweek article. Harry did not explicitly say he and his brother were forced to walk. It was implied in the article and made 'fact' by UK media (dont know about elsewhere).

What the last few weeks has reinforced for me is that you can never take royal news at face value.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I love The Crown. I will be very interested to see how they handle the Charles and Diana story. I have heard that the Queen and Prince Philip watch it--not sure if that is true.

For such a costly production there were far too many factual errors, there was too much hineininterpretieren* and there was even pure fantasy woven into the story (for an example Sir Winston Churchill and his secretary, Venetia Scott, but she was 100% a fabrication to spice things up).

One needs to be a fly on the wall too see if A - the Queen and the Duke have a suscription to Netflix (if these Ninety-somethingers have any desire to have Netflix anyway) and B - if they indeed were watching The Crown and not Orange Is The New Black. With other words: pure guesses.

(* Hineininterpretieren is a wonderful German word which is difficult to translate: maybe it translates best as: re-interpretating things with knowledge no one could have known back then. The Crown was a very lenghty exercise in that).

Having heard various comments by the two princes, I feel they are re-interpretating things as well, not as the boys they were but with knowledge they did not know 20 years ago and with the eyes of much older persons looking back on what happened during that rollercoaster time of emotions. They seem to differ in bringing up details every time they open their mouth about it.

 

[loonytick]

I didn't read any of the earlier interviews as saying they weren't offered any support. They didn't clearly say "Dad tried to help us," but they also didn't say he ignored it, either. What they did say was that they weren't willing to open themselves up emotionally to deal with the complicated feelings.

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

The only clear criticism either made of the choices their father or grandparents made was when Harry said that a child shouldn't be made to walk behind his mother's coffin in such a big, public way. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in hindsight, the family as a whole has decided that isn't a choice they'd make again.

It's a hard line to walk, to take a moment to insert their perspective into the narrative about their family's life, trying to restrict their comments so that they are only about themselves and the one family member who can't be hurt one way or another anymore. I do think they've made some missteps, but for the most part I don't think they have much to regret.

I can sort of see why some of you think they should just stay silent...but that's not foolproof, either, and there's a little bit of laziness to that approach. I also don't think it's a realistic option in this day and age.

 

[Jacknch]

A reminder that discussion of the Netflix production The Crown can be found in the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...series-on-the-queen-37008-16.html#post2012028 thread.

 

[TLLK]

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

Good post loonytick!

It is very likely that neither was ready to open up and accept the help that would have been offered to them in the weeks/months after her death. Harry has shared recently that it was only in the last couple of years that he was prepared to deal with Diana's loss and this was only because his brother was concerned about his behavior.

 

[MARG]

Well. YES.. but nothing surprises "Never apologise and [especially] NEVER EXPLAIN" would certainly have been my advice to those most closely involved in this tragedy...

Anything and everything 'made public' has been and will be distorted and re-interpreted to suit different narratives, so silence will always be the wisest option...

You can't blame them for trying. Twenty years of dirty laundry and the continual public vilification of their father is a terrible burden to be carried forever for them, their father and Camilla.

Unfortunately, now the media will just twist everything remotely nice they said and heap even more on Charles and Camilla because saying nice things about their father is obviously a sign of brainwashing, coercion, or some other unsavoury skulduggery.

Well, it was worth a crack boys.

 

[shastalucie]

I've heard that William was displeased with his mother during the summer of 1997. He wasn't impressed with Dodi and he did not appreciate his mother's rather deliberate public displays in a bathing suit, kissing and hugging Dodi in full view of the paparazzi, etc. William had not held back in making his views clear to his mother in several heated phone calls in the weeks before her death. Of course, his reaction was completely normal for a guy his age and most kids would have felt the same way. Still, I think these exchanges with his mother (if true) would make his memory and feeling of the events around her death as especially painful.

 

[royal rob]

I've heard that William was displeased with his mother during the summer of 1997. He wasn't impressed with Dodi and he did not appreciate his mother's rather deliberate public displays in a bathing suit, kissing and hugging Dodi in full view of the paparazzi, etc. William had not held back in making his views clear to his mother in several heated phone calls in the weeks before her death. Of course, his reaction was completely normal for a guy his age and most kids would have felt the same way. Still, I think these exchanges with his mother (if true) would make his memory and feeling of the events around her death as especially painful.

Where have you got this information? Who did you hear it from ? Etc etc

 

[hel]

I didn't read any of the earlier interviews as saying they weren't offered any support. They didn't clearly say "Dad tried to help us," but they also didn't say he ignored it, either. What they did say was that they weren't willing to open themselves up emotionally to deal with the complicated feelings.

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

The only clear criticism either made of the choices their father or grandparents made was when Harry said that a child shouldn't be made to walk behind his mother's coffin in such a big, public way. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in hindsight, the family as a whole has decided that isn't a choice they'd make again.

It's a hard line to walk, to take a moment to insert their perspective into the narrative about their family's life, trying to restrict their comments so that they are only about themselves and the one family member who can't be hurt one way or another anymore. I do think they've made some missteps, but for the most part I don't think they have much to regret.

I can sort of see why some of you think they should just stay silent...but that's not foolproof, either, and there's a little bit of laziness to that approach. I also don't think it's a realistic option in this day and age.

To be honest, I don't exactly read that as a criticism of his family; I think the larger context of all the interviews, there's an understanding that the boys' walk was in response to public expectations that they show their mourning. It's entirely possible that those expectations, as much or more than their family, is what Harry is referring to when he says that a child wouldn't be expected to do that today.