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  #61  
Old 10-14-2008, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
I also wondered something. Does Princess Caroline have a tendency to stutter, like her brother ? Is it something that runs in families ? Or is it, again, just an idiosyncrasy to repeat a word or a consonant or syllable as you search in your head for the best way to phrase something ?
I am a LIFE-long stutterer. It takes one to know one.
No, The Princess of Hanover does not stutter. She weighs her words, and takes pauses to think about what she will say next so as to sound her best.
Prince Albert does not stutter any longer. At least, not from what I have been able to discern, from listening to him speak ......

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Originally Posted by La Bouche d'Or View Post
Sluttering often comes from shyness, low self-confidence or some (social) fears, and people tend to have it from childhood.
These are dangerously entrenched stereotypes of stutterers. Oftentimes, the stereotypes of people, are more damaging to any "self esteem" (pretty over-used term, these days) than the speech impediment, itself.
By the way, I stutter and know stutterers.
I am not shy, either.
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  #62  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:07 PM
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Pss Caroline is an eloquent speaker. Prince Albert - at times - does stutter, but I don't feel it detracts from what he has to say.
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  #63  
Old 10-15-2008, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseygal View Post
Pss Caroline is an eloquent speaker. Prince Albert - at times - does stutter, but I don't feel it detracts from what he has to say.
I could have sworn that Prince Albert got over, or got speech therapy for his affliction, in his youth. I think Prince Rainier thought he'd just grow out of it, whereas The Princess Grace pushed for therapy, which of course is the correct course of action. Negligence helps no one.
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  #64  
Old 10-15-2008, 08:32 PM
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haa hmm it's been a number of years that Pa has been giving his speeches and there's never been one where he has stammered or stuttered in English or in French. So, perhaps "if" her per chance did stutter or stammer as "everyone" does. it doesn't necessarily imply a speech impediment. Obviously as often as he speaks at the EU it obviously doesn't be enough of a problem to have anyone not listen to what he has to say.
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  #65  
Old 10-17-2008, 06:20 AM
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I don't mean to start another controversy over Princess Caroline's speech mannerisms. I listened to the interview again, and having been trained for my work to listen and interpret people's ways of speaking (and having had to endure numerous TV interviews to accomplish this), I'd like to offer another hypothesis.

It's not that important and poor Princess Caroline should not be subjected to a bunch of hit or miss interpretations, but since it is the "Interviews and Speeches" thread, I thought it might be relevant. (Also, who has not be brought to task, teasingly or otherwise, for our speech mannerisms? I am myself a constant target, whether in French or in English, but I take it good-naturedly and actually find it interesting.)

We have already attributed her searching for or repeating words to her being tired, or a perfectionist, or (a now debunked theory) a slight stutterer. Having listened to a few of her spontaneous interviews (as opposed to reading from a prepared script) , I'd now like to suggest that her way of speaking may be a reflection of her class or the people she associates with. We all know we pick up ways of speaking from our entourage, sometimes to fit in, sometimes for other reasons, or we deliberately imitate other people (Proust's novels are filled with such descriptions and the process involved). Princess Caroline's delivery suddenly reminded me of the countless intellectuals, artists, movie directors, etc., I have listened to on T.V. We know she is very involved with cultural circles, and although my comparison may sound like a criticism, in fact she avoids their worst tics : the obnoxious repetition of "euh", instead, precisely, as she does, of pausing or repeating a word as you think of your next statement, the use of fashionable buzz words, the mixture of arrogance, pretentiousness, and "laisser-aller" (contemptuous nonchalance toward the audience), that is so ubiquitous in those circles. (I am not saying they all do that, but it seems to be the "verbal pass" to use to show you are a member of that club).

Caroline may have some of their mannerisms, but it's almost as if she were aware of their worst tics and made a point of avoiding them. Her style is her own, sincere and authentic. She is pleasant to listen to, and comes acroos, in spite of the hesitations, as assertive, poised and confident.

As for Prince Albert, the last interview I listened to was with the French anchorman Patrick Poivre d'Arvor, about 1 year and a half ago I think. He stammered and stuttered but it took nothing away from the substance of his responses. I haven't heard any spontaneous speech since then, so I don't know if it has stopped. I often read that he only stuttered in French, not in English. I wouldn't know, I have never heard him give an interview in English.

I welcome any contribution to my post, because I have a professional interest in this area, but please don't paraphrase me by distorting my words or use anything I say out of context. It's a waste of time for me to respond to statements I didn't make. (I don't mean to imply anybody did this in this thread, but I am sure you've all experienced it one time or another...)
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  #66  
Old 10-17-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
I don't mean to start another controversy over Princess Caroline's speech mannerisms. but please don't paraphrase me by distorting my words or use anything I say out of context. It's a waste of time for me to respond to statements I didn't make. (I don't mean to imply anybody did this in this thread, but I am sure you've all experienced it one time or another...)
Well, see ... EVERYONE here quotes portions of posts when they reply to them. It's tedious and cumbersome to quote everything someone says when replying to anyone, really. We all pick and choose what we think is most relevant to reply to, sorry. Also, when someone makes a declarative statement, then quoting him or her out of context is hard to do, as what is "out there" can be so easily understood.

Again, regarding stuttering, I know what I am talking about, too, here.
I stutter!
It takes one to know of one.
I have heard both Caroline and Albert hesitate and take pauses when speaking, but those do NOT a speech impediment make.

Are you a speech therapist?
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  #67  
Old 10-17-2008, 02:04 PM
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Maybe it's sometimes excitement that they get to thinking about so much they just have to take a second to re-group their thoughts before continuing. If you don't use pre-fabricated speeches it's normally bound to happen don't you think so too???? Caroline PA and Stephanie have always comes accross as spontaneous in their speeches. Probably the cause as to why; inspite of any shortcomings either real or 'perceived" are always superceded by everyone's interest in what they have to say. Simply because they come accross as genuine in whatever goal they might be setting for themselves by taking on any kind of a speech assignment?
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  #68  
Old 10-17-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Glistening Seas View Post
Maybe it's sometimes excitement that they get to thinking about so much they just have to take a second to re-group their thoughts before continuing. If you don't use pre-fabricated speeches it's normally bound to happen don't you think so too????
Of course!

But, that wasn't my problem with a poster had to say. I don't like it when people who really don't know what stuttering is, or who haven't lived with it, AND been afflicted by it, try and tell me what's what.

I agree with you that Caroline and Albert always sound as though they are hesitating to re-group and re-think what they want to say, rather than that they just can't say what it is that they want (to say).

They HAVE To "represent". They have to come across well. They musn't be seen to waiver of falter. They are Royalty and have to be exemplary. So, they must continually pause and re-think: "What do I really want to say next?"

Doing that is in no way stuttering, sorry. I k-n-o-w this.

Now, if anyone here works with speech impaired children or adults, I will be more than happy to discuss this with them, but until that time I truly don't like reading the stereotypes that persist about a problem I have had for many a year, and know very, very, well!
Nor, do I like reading about people who are fluent speakers, trying to tell me who is afflicted with my impediment and who isn't.

I am sorry, but, it truly is quite insulting.

-- Abbie
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  #69  
Old 10-19-2008, 06:14 AM
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Abbie, if I have offended you in any way, I am truly sorry. I was trying to make some remarks about Caroline's speech mannerisms, and I didn't mean to sound judgmental about her or anyone.

You asked if I was a speech therapist. No. I was trained in applied linguistics and part of the training (both in French and in English), involved listening to speech and speeches, (direct, taped, from the media,etc.), and trying to draw conclusions from "blind tests", such as regional origin, socio-economic background, age, education level, occupation, possible bilingual background, repeated speech patterns indicating deliberate or unconscious influences or imitations, and a host of other highly nuanced items. The observations were not meant to be judgmental or therapeutic, but were to be used for aural comprehension for advanced students of foreign languages, especially those going abroad, (and further down the line, for differenciations in literature and culture), to identify an audience, and permit better understanding, adaptation and integration within a speaking group. It was quite exciting, a little like playing detective, using a number of clues. If you believe spy movies or series, like Alias, the best students, having integrated all the clues, would have made great spies !

To refine on what I said earlier, I thought (and it's open to discussion, I haven't used this training in quite a while), setting aside my erroneous hypothesis that she might stutter a little which was obviously incorrect, that Princess Caroline's delivery and choice of words defined her as an intellectual used to participating in intellectual discussions, in a comfortable setting where it's not how fast you speak but the quality of your statements that counts, with some mannerisms common to that group, obviously pointing to an identification with that group, but without their worst tics.

I also thought she came across as cultured (so what's new ?), but also admirably sensitive: she chose to make remarks about her deceased friend and colleague in a way that made him sound like the most alive, alert, spunky and vivacious person to be around. I was impressed by the use of her image "il ne tenait pas en place", (couldn't sit still, or restless, usually used for a hyperactive child), which could have been taken as a criticism, but which she immediately qualified to turn it into a compliment, pointing to his ability to have the curiosity of a child along with the adult capacity to do something about it, which he did until the end of his life. In a few choice words, it was an excellent tribute.
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  #70  
Old 10-19-2008, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Abbie, if I have offended you in any way, I am truly sorry.
No, you didn't really offend me, my Dear. Not in the truest meaning of the word .... I wondered if you weren't passing some premature judgment on how Caroline and Albert's speech mannerisms were reflective and/or symptomatic of and underlying pathology, or not.
Thank you for your sincere apology.
It is appreciated and accepted.

-- Abbie

PS: Is French your native language? If so, you write English incredibly well!
I don't know many Americans who can write English with your proficiency.
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  #71  
Old 10-19-2008, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH Abigail View Post
No, you didn't really offend me, my Dear. Not in the truest meaning of the word .... I wondered if you weren't passing some premature judgment on how Caroline and Albert's speech mannerisms were reflective and/or symptomatic of and underlying pathology, or not.
Thank you for your sincere apology.
It is appreciated and accepted.

-- Abbie

PS: Is French your native language? If so, you write English incredibly well!
I don't know many Americans who can write English with your proficiency.

Thanks, Abbie, for the compliment. French is my native language and I write equally badly in both languages because I get sloppy and don't get graded. The forum keeps me on my toes because I always seem to offend someone with something I say, how I phrase it. Maybe if I hung around Princess Caroline more, I'd learn how to express myself in the same exquisite way she seems to have with words !
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  #72  
Old 10-19-2008, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Thanks, Abbie, for the compliment. French is my native language and I write equally badly in both languages because I get sloppy and don't get graded. The forum keeps me on my toes because I always seem to offend someone with something I say, how I phrase it. Maybe if I hung around Princess Caroline more, I'd learn how to express myself in the same exquisite way she seems to have with words !
You are most welcome!

I have a German friend, Tina, who writes English every bit as well as you do. Were she to suddenly say to me, that she really isn't German at all and always was American, I'd believe her.
Again, as I have stated, I know of American's who can't write their native language nearly as well as you do. Your fluency is commendable.
They must make you "sing for your supper" in schools, eh?
I have heard the French are educated quite rigourously, in fact.
Do they stress rote learning over creativity, by the way? Maybe you can help me understand a bit better how you are schooled, please?

-- Abbie
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  #73  
Old 10-20-2008, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH Abigail View Post
You are most welcome!

I have a German friend, Tina, who writes English every bit as well as you do. Were she to suddenly say to me, that she really isn't German at all and always was American, I'd believe her.
Again, as I have stated, I know of American's who can't write their native language nearly as well as you do. Your fluency is commendable.
They must make you "sing for your supper" in schools, eh?
I have heard the French are educated quite rigourously, in fact.
Do they stress rote learning over creativity, by the way? Maybe you can help me understand a bit better how you are schooled, please?

-- Abbie
Thank you for your interest. I did a little research for you and can refer you to "The Casiraghis' University Life", which begins to answer your questions on page 3. Posts #166 and 167, by tbhrc, page 9, are highly informative for an overview. On page 16, tbhrc announces the creation of a thread on "School systems around the world". CasiraghiTrio makes many informative statements throughout the afore-mentioned thread. I start speaking about my own experience in the French educational system on page 27. Good luck! If you have any particular questions, PM me...

Just by accident, I came across an article in The Wall Street Journal, dated Oct 17th, entitled "For Argument's sake". It was very interesting in view of our discussion because the author of the article, well-respected and self-proclaimed traditionalist Mark Oppenheimer makes no less than 5 derogatory references to "fast-talking" : "super-fast talking", "speaking fast", "speed-talking", "asked her opponent why she had chosen to talk so fast", "fast-talking", all in the context of "pulling wool over the eyes" of a debating opponent as opposed to using the old-fashioned "tools of oratory", which obviously include taking one's time in delivering a personal, well-articulated and argumented discourse.

So, one score for Princess Caroline. Even though the context was not one of debate, it appears that Mr Oppenheimer would approve of her style !
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Thank you for your interest. I did a little research for you and can refer you to "The Casiraghis' University Life", which begins to answer your questions on page 3. Posts #166 and 167, by tbhrc, page 9, are highly informative for an overview. On page 16, tbhrc announces the creation of a thread on "School systems around the world". CasiraghiTrio makes many informative statements throughout the afore-mentioned thread. I start speaking about my own experience in the French educational system on page 27. Good luck! If you have any particular questions, PM me...

Just by accident, I came across an article in The Wall Street Journal, dated Oct 17th, entitled "For Argument's sake". It was very interesting in view of our discussion because the author of the article, well-respected and self-proclaimed traditionalist Mark Oppenheimer makes no less than 5 derogatory references to "fast-talking" : "super-fast talking", "speaking fast", "speed-talking", "asked her opponent why she had chosen to talk so fast", "fast-talking", all in the context of "pulling wool over the eyes" of a debating opponent as opposed to using the old-fashioned "tools of oratory", which obviously include taking one's time in delivering a personal, well-articulated and argumented discourse.

So, one score for Princess Caroline. Even though the context was not one of debate, it appears that Mr Oppenheimer would approve of her style !
Thanks for this, iloveroyals!
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  #75  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:18 PM
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i want to hear voice of princess caroline.. does anyone know any video or something about it?
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  #76  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:07 PM
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You can hear Princess Caroline's voice here:
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Old 12-09-2008, 04:37 PM
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And it's quite a low key voice... She speaks fast as she were shooting a gun!!!
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:52 PM
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You can hear Princess Caroline's voice here:
thank you , nirvana!
actually i always thought that caroline's voice must be really soft. i'm a bit disappointed.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:55 PM
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No problem :)

Here's another video, she starts speaking at 7:09:


Her voice sounds higher here.
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:39 PM
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Again, i think she speaks too fast... as if she were defending herself of a supposed attack, or trying to prevent one...
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