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  #521  
Old 07-21-2010, 08:26 AM
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I tried to carefully read about the preparatory course to ENS (Hypokhagne + khagne) and nothing indicates that if you fail you are automatically in the middle of Sorbonne studies. It means that when you fail, you can go to the Sorbonne, but from the beginning. So Charlotte failed at 2006, she might have started from Sornonne 1st year at October 2006. It is not impossible, and she could be graduated now after 4 years, but I'm not so sure that she has been a student in the last 4 years. At least the 2 last y she lives in London and she is travelling around!! How could she graduate in Sorbonne???

And a funny thing. Charlotte prepared her exams hypokhagne + khagne at Lycee Fenelon. I read to Wiki that Caroline also!!!
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  #522  
Old 07-21-2010, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I tried to carefully read about the preparatory course to ENS (Hypokhagne + khagne) and nothing indicates that if you fail you are automatically in the middle of Sorbonne studies. It means that when you fail, you can go to the Sorbonne, but from the beginning. So Charlotte failed at 2006, she might have started from Sornonne 1st year at October 2006. It is not impossible, and she could be graduated now after 4 years, but I'm not so sure that she has been a student in the last 4 years. At least the 2 last y she lives in London and she is travelling around!! How could she graduate in Sorbonne???

And a funny thing. Charlotte prepared her exams hypokhagne + khagne at Lycee Fenelon. I read to Wiki that Caroline also!!!
I went to university in France and in the third year there were quite some students who had been added to our course. they had all been at a "classe préparatoire" before, so after 2 years over there and after having failed getting into ENS, they started in the 3rd year at university
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  #523  
Old 07-21-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I tried to carefully read about the preparatory course to ENS (Hypokhagne + khagne) and nothing indicates that if you fail you are automatically in the middle of Sorbonne studies. It means that when you fail, you can go to the Sorbonne, but from the beginning. So Charlotte failed at 2006, she might have started from Sornonne 1st year at October 2006. It is not impossible, and she could be graduated now after 4 years, but I'm not so sure that she has been a student in the last 4 years. At least the 2 last y she lives in London and she is travelling around!! How could she graduate in Sorbonne???

And a funny thing. Charlotte prepared her exams hypokhagne + khagne at Lycee Fenelon. I read to Wiki that Caroline also!!!
Yeah, you're right except the classes preparatoires are equivalent to the first two years of university in France, i.e. the first of three years toward a License.
So she could have gone to do her third year and get a License.

It's just my opinion, or rather my feeling, but I earnestly don't believe she did that. She did too many other things between the last half of 2006 and now. 2006/2008 were very idle years for her, besides her internships. Then in 2009 she seemed to reenergize and take up the Ever Manifesto and the equestrian again. So I just don't think she has been in school at all after Fenelon.

I wish I was wrong. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong here! :) I want Charlotte to be a scholar. It's just that, Charlotte doesn't seem to want Charlotte to be a scholar! haha
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  #524  
Old 07-22-2010, 03:43 AM
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I went to university in France and in the third year there were quite some students who had been added to our course. they had all been at a "classe préparatoire" before, so after 2 years over there and after having failed getting into ENS, they started in the 3rd year at university
Ahh!!! This was exactly the point I was looking for! So. if the 2 years she spent in preps were recognized to continue for the license, I strong believe that she did it. It is different when you have just one year to finish, than to start from the point zero again. She was an excellent student, she could not give up to all just for one year more
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  #525  
Old 07-22-2010, 04:57 AM
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Fandesacs2003, thanks for your posts. I can figure out some things about the french school system and Char's uni life.
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  #526  
Old 07-22-2010, 05:01 AM
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Fandesacs2003, thanks for your posts. I can figure out some things about the french school system and Char's uni life.

You are welcome azure
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  #527  
Old 07-25-2010, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Ahh!!! This was exactly the point I was looking for! So. if the 2 years she spent in preps were recognized to continue for the license, I strong believe that she did it. It is different when you have just one year to finish, than to start from the point zero again. She was an excellent student, she could not give up to all just for one year more
I agree with you now. I thought this too for a long time then began to doubt, and now I'm "eye-to-eye" with this view again: Fenelon 2 years, Paris-Sorbonne IV probably 2006/2007 term = License. Because remember after, rather at the end of 2007 the announcement came out for the Independent internship, and she helped write that article in October 2007.

So when did she do the Pierre Laffont/Paris internship? During her Sorbonne studies, before the London internship?
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  #528  
Old 08-08-2010, 07:52 PM
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Another random question, this time Alexandra, rather than the trio: (Mods: feel free to move this, if necessary)

Princess Alexandra is in line for two thrones-c. 407th for the British one from her father's side, and 5th for Monaco. We know the likelyhood of her ever getting either throne is slim to none-but what citizenship/passport does she hold? British? German? Moneguse? Perhaps all three? Or maybe Austrian, since she was born in Austria...
Also, given the fact here is according to Monaco's constitution, she'd need to hold Monaco citizenship at the time in order to succeed the throne if her uncle, mother, brothers and sister were to die or abdicate their places without a legitimate heir amongst them, and she were to become HRH Princess Alexandra of Monaco...

And with the British throne, the only thing she can't do in order to keep her c. 407th spot is become Catholic, which I don't know how long THAT's going to last...given the facts she's currently living in a Roman Catholic dominated country, with her Roman Catholic mother (and occasionally her siblings, when they are in town), and attending a private Roman Catholic school.

Bottom line:
What is Princess Alexandra's citizenship? British? Monegasque? German? Austrian? All 4? One or two of the 4? Anyone know?
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  #529  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:22 PM
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I believe I know the answer. I might be wrong, but I feel pretty sure about it.

Alexandra has dual citizenship. First, as child of a Monegasque, she is automatically entitled to Monegasque citizenship.

But...... she is also entitled to the citizenship of her father.

I don't know what that is....... I know she was born in Austria, but most likely she takes the citizenship of her parents. That is pretty basic for international law. Where you are born makes a difference, but let's say you have two USA citizens visit Paris, and the mama gives birth; her kid is not a French citizen just because she is born there. The parents are US citizens on a passport in France; therefore, the child is put down as a US citizen.

Jazmin Grace Grimaldi was born in the US to a US citizen mother. She is US citizen, but is eligible to be a Monegasque citizen too because of her dad. I know this is in the Monegasque law. All it takes is one parent to be Monegasque.

I hope that this helps. I'm sorry I don't know what is the citizenship of Ernst. I am curious to know however. I'm sure there will be lots of input on this topic. Good question!
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  #530  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
I believe I know the answer. I might be wrong, but I feel pretty sure about it.

Alexandra has dual citizenship. First, as child of a Monegasque, she is automatically entitled to Monegasque citizenship.

But...... she is also entitled to the citizenship of her father.

I don't know what that is....... I know she was born in Austria, but most likely she takes the citizenship of her parents. That is pretty basic for international law. Where you are born makes a difference, but let's say you have two USA citizens visit Paris, and the mama gives birth; her kid is not a French citizen just because she is born there. The parents are US citizens on a passport in France; therefore, the child is put down as a US citizen.

Jazmin Grace Grimaldi was born in the US to a US citizen mother. She is US citizen, but is eligible to be a Monegasque citizen too because of her dad. I know this is in the Monegasque law. All it takes is one parent to be Monegasque.

I hope that this helps. I'm sorry I don't know what is the citizenship of Ernst. I am curious to know however. I'm sure there will be lots of input on this topic. Good question!
Thanks for the quick answer, CasiraghiTrio!

That's what I was leaning on, but there is always the whole Monaco law that having a multiple citizenship is illegal in Monaco...perhaps Princess Alexandra is an exception since she is entitled to both of her parents citizenship and is part of the Princely family? Like Grace and her kids were exceptions when they were growing up...
The only difference is with the US, if a child is born here, they automatically are illegible for citizenship no matter what the nationality of the parents-thus why we have such immigration issues with Mexicans coming over the boarder to deliver a baby then either leaving it here or bringing it back as a US Citizen or coming over as illegal aliens. Thus why there has been talk of changing that rule recently in the news....
I know when a friend of mine's husband was stationed in S. Korea and she had a baby while there, the child (born to two US Citizens in the army, on the army base) is entitled to both citizenship, and they are considering getting her the S. Korean one, in spite of neither parent being South Korean or them residing there any more.

EDIT:
Just looked it up, and found this on Ernest: apparently, his nationality is German....which means he probably carries a german passport, and so Alexandra would be entitled to it as well.
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  #531  
Old 08-09-2010, 01:01 AM
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Alex's papa has dual citizenship himself actually. German and British. Applicable via the Sophia Naturalisation Act 1705 and thanks to Ernst's father Ernest.
I don't know about Alex. I was mulling over this question recently actually. I came to the conclusion that she at least has Monégasque citizenship, which doesn't impede her right to either throne.
None of the Princely family needs citizenship or residency to reside in the countries they currently do (temporarily at least) because we have this lovely law in the EU where citizens of member states (Monaco isn't technically a member but it is treated as part of the borders of France, so it qualifies - Monaco is part of the VAT and customs areas of the EU and is part of Schengen) can travel to other member states and live/work there without a permit. Therefore, Caroline and Alex - technically French citizens under EU law - could live in France. As could Ernst.
So to surmise, I think Alex probably has just the one passport - a Monégasque one.
As for the Catholicism thing, it's perfectly fine for Alex to live in a Catholic country, with a Catholic family, going to a Catholic school and attending Catholic masses (Easter ) as long as she doesn't take communion in the Catholic church or "profess the Catholic faith". Besides, having been officially baptised in the Protestant Church she would, under the laws of the Holy See, have to convert. Children can convert (with permission and support of parents and a priest) but they would have to learn about the sacrament to partake in it. That requires sacramental and RCI courses and time. It's all just a bit too much hassle, to be honest, unless Alex really wanted to become a Catholic. There's nothing stopping her from privately falling in line with the Catholic teachings yet still remaining Protestant. She'll just be a more conservative one. (no insult meant to other Catholics of course, being one myself. Nor Protestants )
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  #532  
Old 08-09-2010, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Thecia View Post
Alex's papa has dual citizenship himself actually. German and British. Applicable via the Sophia Naturalisation Act 1705 and thanks to Ernst's father Ernest.
I don't know about Alex. I was mulling over this question recently actually. I came to the conclusion that she at least has Monégasque citizenship, which doesn't impede her right to either throne.
None of the Princely family needs citizenship or residency to reside in the countries they currently do (temporarily at least) because we have this lovely law in the EU where citizens of member states (Monaco isn't technically a member but it is treated as part of the borders of France, so it qualifies - Monaco is part of the VAT and customs areas of the EU and is part of Schengen) can travel to other member states and live/work there without a permit. Therefore, Caroline and Alex - technically French citizens under EU law - could live in France. As could Ernst.
So to surmise, I think Alex probably has just the one passport - a Monégasque one.
As for the Catholicism thing, it's perfectly fine for Alex to live in a Catholic country, with a Catholic family, going to a Catholic school and attending Catholic masses (Easter ) as long as she doesn't take communion in the Catholic church or "profess the Catholic faith". Besides, having been officially baptised in the Protestant Church she would, under the laws of the Holy See, have to convert. Children can convert (with permission and support of parents and a priest) but they would have to learn about the sacrament to partake in it. That requires sacramental and RCI courses and time. It's all just a bit too much hassle, to be honest, unless Alex really wanted to become a Catholic. There's nothing stopping her from privately falling in line with the Catholic teachings yet still remaining Protestant. She'll just be a more conservative one. (no insult meant to other Catholics of course, being one myself. Nor Protestants )
Thanks for the quick response! Yeah, you're probably right-she probably only has a Monégasque passport, due to the laws of the EU (even if Monaco isn't technically a member). And that's probably how Charlotte resides (at least part time) in both London and Paris and how Pierre resides in Milan most of the time without having to deal with visas and the like all the time and assumingly they both have Monégasque citizenship/passports as well...right?
And thanks for the input on the Catholicism thing as well-you're right, it's perfectly fine for her to fall in line with the teachings of Catholicism, having all of the Catholic influences around her, yet remain a batized Protestant.
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  #533  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:17 PM
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Well, now that we are discussing citizenships: I know the Casiraghi Trio are obviously monegasques but, do they have dual citizenship due to his italian father? (sorry if the question is silly, i'm just curious :p)
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  #534  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:40 PM
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Well, now that we are discussing citizenships: I know the Casiraghi Trio are obviously monegasques but, do they have dual citizenship due to his italian father? (sorry if the question is silly, i'm just curious :p)
Good question...no idea. They were "raised as Casiraghi's"-speaking Italian at home, visiting their Casiraghi family often, etc...so I'd assume so....
anyone else know this one?
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  #535  
Old 08-09-2010, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Thecia View Post
Alex's papa has dual citizenship himself actually. German and British. Applicable via the Sophia Naturalisation Act 1705 and thanks to Ernst's father Ernest.
I don't know about Alex. I was mulling over this question recently actually. I came to the conclusion that she at least has Monégasque citizenship, which doesn't impede her right to either throne.
None of the Princely family needs citizenship or residency to reside in the countries they currently do (temporarily at least) because we have this lovely law in the EU where citizens of member states (Monaco isn't technically a member but it is treated as part of the borders of France, so it qualifies - Monaco is part of the VAT and customs areas of the EU and is part of Schengen) can travel to other member states and live/work there without a permit. Therefore, Caroline and Alex - technically French citizens under EU law - could live in France. As could Ernst.
So to surmise, I think Alex probably has just the one passport - a Monégasque one.
As for the Catholicism thing, it's perfectly fine for Alex to live in a Catholic country, with a Catholic family, going to a Catholic school and attending Catholic masses (Easter ) as long as she doesn't take communion in the Catholic church or "profess the Catholic faith". Besides, having been officially baptised in the Protestant Church she would, under the laws of the Holy See, have to convert. Children can convert (with permission and support of parents and a priest) but they would have to learn about the sacrament to partake in it. That requires sacramental and RCI courses and time. It's all just a bit too much hassle, to be honest, unless Alex really wanted to become a Catholic. There's nothing stopping her from privately falling in line with the Catholic teachings yet still remaining Protestant. She'll just be a more conservative one. (no insult meant to other Catholics of course, being one myself. Nor Protestants )
Yeah, I agree with you! I think Alex is for sure Monegasque citizen, but Trep brought up the excellent point of the Electress Sophia thing -- as a descendent, she is automatically British citizen too, just like her papa. I forgot about it, but it is perfectly true. So her papa has a German citizenship too, I wonder about this, if Alex has it, but like Thecia says, it doesn't matter because of the EU member states. And Alexandra won't inherit any of the Hannover family properties (they must all go to Junior) so that wouldn't be an issue. As a Monegasque citizen, Alexandra is automatically French citizen too, isn't she? I think all Monegasque citizens are French citizens, but unfortunately it doesn't work vice versa, which seems kind of unfair for the French.

Interesting stuff! And the Catholic thing too...... Does someone know if Alex did a First Communion? If so, it probably was at age seven, in 2006.

Thtregoddess, about your friend born in S.Korea. Most US military babies born abroad are born on the base, so it's considered US territory! Therefore, there's no issue about citizenship. US parents, US territory abroad.

Ah one more thing, I think the Casiraghis have Italian citizenship too? I didn't know about the Monaco law about not being allowed multiple citizenship. I don't know. It's very confusing! :(
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  #536  
Old 08-09-2010, 10:04 PM
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In the US, I think you can have dual citizenship until you reach age 18, then you have to pick a country. eg. PC, PA and PS were all dual citizens as children. PG kept her US citizenship until right before she died. I also believe military brats born overseas have dual citizenship at birth; even if born on a military base. That was the case with my cousin who was born on a US military base in Europe. I'm guessing other countries have similar laws.
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  #537  
Old 08-10-2010, 02:12 AM
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In the US, I think you can have dual citizenship until you reach age 18, then you have to pick a country. eg. PC, PA and PS were all dual citizens as children. PG kept her US citizenship until right before she died. I also believe military brats born overseas have dual citizenship at birth; even if born on a military base. That was the case with my cousin who was born on a US military base in Europe. I'm guessing other countries have similar laws.
I think you're right about military brats born overseas, FanofMonaco...at least from the knowledge my friend (who gave birth in S. Korea) has told me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Yeah, I agree with you! I think Alex is for sure Monegasque citizen, but Trep brought up the excellent point of the Electress Sophia thing -- as a descendent, she is automatically British citizen too, just like her papa. I forgot about it, but it is perfectly true. So her papa has a German citizenship too, I wonder about this, if Alex has it, but like Thecia says, it doesn't matter because of the EU member states. And Alexandra won't inherit any of the Hannover family properties (they must all go to Junior) so that wouldn't be an issue. As a Monegasque citizen, Alexandra is automatically French citizen too, isn't she? I think all Monegasque citizens are French citizens, but unfortunately it doesn't work vice versa, which seems kind of unfair for the French.

Interesting stuff! And the Catholic thing too...... Does someone know if Alex did a First Communion? If so, it probably was at age seven, in 2006.

Thtregoddess, about your friend born in S.Korea. Most US military babies born abroad are born on the base, so it's considered US territory! Therefore, there's no issue about citizenship. US parents, US territory abroad.

Ah one more thing, I think the Casiraghis have Italian citizenship too? I didn't know about the Monaco law about not being allowed multiple citizenship. I don't know. It's very confusing! :(
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  #538  
Old 08-10-2010, 06:28 PM
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Alex's papa has dual citizenship himself actually. German and British. Applicable via the Sophia Naturalisation Act 1705 and thanks to Ernst's father Ernest.
)
The Sophia Naturalization Act was repealed/amended by the British Parliament and now I believe now only applies to those born before 1948 so Alexandra does not have automatic British citizenship. Not sure if her father obtained British citizenship through his father who fought the court battle in the 50's or not but suspect he may only hold German citizenship.
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  #539  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:08 PM
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He at least has residency. He's lived there on and off since he was fifteen (long before European Union immigration laws came into effect). He also has the right to claim British citizenship through descent.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:03 PM
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He at least has residency. He's lived there on and off since he was fifteen (long before European Union immigration laws came into effect). He also has the right to claim British citizenship through descent.

Here's a site that may help us out here....
I think, givien this information that Ernest holds a German passport, but is a bristish subject:
Nationality And Passports: British Nationality - The Irish Dimension

Anyone else have any idea?
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