Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


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Do other women on the same riding circuit as Charlotte weight train?
 
agogo said:
Do other women on the same riding circuit as Charlotte weight train?
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I don't know of any rider who weight trains, male or female. You don't need arm strengh or big muscles to ride horses.
Look at how skinny Pénélope Leprevost is (and she's won the Vienna 5* GCT leg). Michel Robert, as far as I know, practices yoga, quite the oposite exercise of weight lifting.
 
Well i know nothing about horse riding but, looking at Charlotte's photos seating on her horses, i always get the feeling that she rides horses that are not fitted for her height... as if the horses she rides were to big for her. I say this because looking at the photos i always get the feeling that her legs are open too widely across the horse, as if her legs couldn't embrace the horse propperly. Of course, i can be wrong. In a competition level horses must perhaps have standard heights... Could anyone please enlighten me?
 
agogo said:
Do other women on the same riding circuit as Charlotte weight train?
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I wouldn't advocate weight training. The rowing machine suggestion was to improve muscle conditioning in her arms and upper legs *as a replacement* for riding - which was my impression she did not do enough of (pardon the syntax).

I am a very small woman, just over 5 feet, and I rode very large horses, some of which were pretty "hot" - and while I was not bulky or muscular, the muscles I needed were developed by riding. But when I was unable to ride, through an injury or whatever, my coach had me on a rowing machine and it really helped me. YMMV.

You don't need big muscles or large size but you DO need to be in control of those muscles and be able to be very sensitive to them - this is what gives you the ability to manage your horse without all the show of strength (yanking, kicking, the old elbows behind the back pulling, etc.). *Subtle* muscle control, I suppose I am saying.

trepstrep said:
I don't know of any rider who weight trains, male or female. You don't need arm strengh or big muscles to ride horses.
Look at how skinny Pénélope Leprevost is (and she's won the Vienna 5* GCT leg). Michel Robert, as far as I know, practices yoga, quite the oposite exercise of weight lifting.
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Yes, Yoga would be excellent.

YMMV, but rowing is not weight training - it enhances flexibilty, muscle tone and muscle control. Pretty much what Yoga will do, except you get the cardio, too.

And you DO need arm strength - but not big muscles. More to the point, the muscles in your forearms and shoulders need to be sensitive and well conditioned. Some horses can be ridden almost entirely with the seat and legs (dressage horses are good examples of this) but jumping horses get excited and tend to move their heads around in between jumps and you need to be able to bring them back to focus with steady hands. Steady hands cannot exist when they're attached to arms that are not strong enough to be steady.

Put another way, impulsion (contained energy, for lack of a more succinct term) is a critical factor in a successful jumping horse. Impulsion is created (forgive the gross oversimplification) by driving the horse forward with one's seat and legs and holding them back with one's upper body and arms - thus we shorten/lengthen stride and create the impulsion required to jump. If you do not think this requires a body in control of all its assets, you're mistaken.

Charlotte appears sometimes unable to control her approach to a jump by controlling stride length and impulsion. Thus my first suspicion, without knowing enough to really know, is that she lacks strength and muscle control.

lazuli said:
Well i know nothing about horse riding but, looking at Charlotte's photos seating on her horses, i always get the feeling that she rides horses that are not fitted for her height... as if the horses she rides were to big for her. I say this because looking at the photos i always get the feeling that her legs are open too widely across the horse, as if her legs couldn't embrace the horse propperly. Of course, i can be wrong. In a competition level horses must perhaps have standard heights... Could anyone please enlighten me?
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No, there is no standard height, although most riders seem to prefer Hanoverian or Hanoverian crosses: warmbloods. These horses tend to be over 16 hands and under 17 (4 inches to a hand, measured at the wither) Interestingly, given our location, it was George II, Elector of Hanover who developed the breed.

Many successful jumpers have been smaller and larger.

Gail Greenough, a Canadian rider and the first woman to win the world jumping championship, rode a horse called Mr. T (a Hanoverian) who was quite tall, as I recall.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoizxGNf1go
 
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Thank you for your help Catherine. :flowers:
 
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Lazuli, maybe the main reason why Charlotte looks too big for her horses is because of her seat.

You can see that she wears her stirrups quite long (more jumpers wear them shorter) and she usually favours a sitting position while other riders usually ride standing on their stirrups or with a hunting balance, half and half.
I don't know if you understand me, because my english horse vocabulary is so short, but maybe Catherine J can help me out?

(oh, and agree with your previous post, Catherine, when I said I didn't kno anyone who did weight work I was thinking about plain weight lifting).

lazuli said:
In a competition level horses must perhaps have standard heights... Could anyone please enlighten me?
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Catherine is right. Jump horses come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them have more central european blood and look more bulky, some others are "closer to the blood" (I don't know if you can say that in english. In french and spanish it means that they have more english blood).

Usually, experienced riders try to find a horses that fit their rinding style, and usually a smallish horse will have less strenght to jump big fences than a huge central european horse, but they are no rules.

One of the best horses of all times, Jappeloup, had a thorougbred mother and was only 1'58 m. , smaller than most showjumping horses.

He looked tiny under his rider Jean-Pierre Durand!

Pierre Durand (FRA) & Jappeloup (SF) - 1986 Hickstead Grand Prix - YouTube
 
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Again, thank you so much Trepstrep. And you're right: wath a diference between J.- P. Durand's riding style and Charlotte's...
 
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Oh! Thanks for the memories. I LOVED Jappeloup! I like a little thoroughbred in sport horses, it gives them a little fire - which Jappeloup certainly had. Best jumper I ever owned was a descendant of Northern Dancer on the distaff (thoroughbred)and a Hanoverian sire. She was brilliant :)

Again, thanks - great memories.
 
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Hick stead reminded me quite a lot of Japaloup.
 
AS long as Charlotte rides carefully so as not to fall ok...... I think she might want to quit at some point.
 
Jaya said:
AS long as Charlotte rides carefully so as not to fall ok...... I think she might want to quit at some point.
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I agree.

It seems like she takes this sport as a hobby, which is ok, but maybe she should eventually quit it. She is not particularly good at it, to keep going on competitions. I don't know, maybe she does it because she wants the sport to gain some popularity? I think i recall reading that in an interview.
 
lazuli said:
Well i know nothing about horse riding but, looking at Charlotte's photos seating on her horses, i always get the feeling that she rides horses that are not fitted for her height... as if the horses she rides were to big for her. I say this because looking at the photos i always get the feeling that her legs are open too widely across the horse, as if her legs couldn't embrace the horse propperly. Of course, i can be wrong. In a competition level horses must perhaps have standard heights... Could anyone please enlighten me?
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Size of the horse is not even discussed. One of the most successful Grand Prix horses we had in the barn was the tiny (14.3) Nick of Diamonds who won Grand Prix after Grand Prix. He jumped 5'11" in the 6 bar at Spruce Meadows. When he came to the jumps, all you could see coming towards you was the tips of his ears. Unfortunately the might Nick died tragically young atfer falling in a drainage ditch and fracturing his skull after getting loose while being longed. On the other end of the spectrum is the present star of our barn Carissimo, who is 18.0+.
Here is Nick:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RhEEJUyqV8

Here is Carissimo:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAQErUKjQMc

Scope of the jump, brain, soundness and speed are what are considered, not size.
 
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I only thought that the horses should have to obey to some standard sizes because Charlotte always seems too small for the horses she rides... or that the horses are to big for her. I say this because of her position upon the sadle. Her legs always seem to be too wide open over the back of the horse, spreading without, however, embrace its flanks
 
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It's not just Charlotte that suffers from that particular problem. I haven't seen many jumping riders who look genuinly good on their horse. They're either too tall, fat or short.

And it's not so much the height (which does matter because you can't have a horse at 1.53 start with those of 1.67, no matter how well they jump) but the strenght and courage they have. In my experience, the smaller make the better all-round jumpers.
 
If you look at the two videos I just posted, you will see that size does not matter. A small horse with a big jump can beat a big one with a middling jump. The little ones also are fast on their feet, turn well, and are often sounder long term, because they are lighter; therefore less stress on the anatomy.
 
I agree, Scooter.

In fact, it is my experience that it is the rare horse over 17.1 hands or so that is athletic enough for top performance. Simply, due to elongated confirmation, they tend (as a rule, not an absolute) not to have enough "hock strength" - an ability to get their hind legs under them to create the impulsion needed for jumping and dressage.

Stroller, a pony, was on the British Olympic team in 68 and jumped one of the few clean rounds.

Most of the great equine athletes have been between 16 and 17 hands. There are, of course, exceptions.

I always preferred to ride a horse closer to 16 than 17 hands because they felt more contained, more agile and more "safe" in the sense of not crashing through jumps, nearly falling over at turns, etc. Mind you, my experience is primarily with eventing - and the smaller horses are almost always more sound through vigorous efforts , as Scooter says.

Ian Millar said that riding a horse like Big Ben (17.2) was more challenging than riding a smaller horse because it is harder for a horse to stride down, than stride up, and still maintain their natural athletic ability. Spaces in between triples were always difficult, as an example, because they required a sustained "ride" because the horse's natural stride was too big for the in betweens, particularly the last one. When you see a horse/rider taking a triple, there is a fairly consistent pattern of hold (approach), hold (between first and second jump) and let go/urge (between second and third jump), allowing the horse to maintain his own optimum balance. With a very tall horse this is not possible unless they are very very athletic and horse and rider have achieved a trust.

A horse like Hickstead (16) was nearly the perfect athlete - tall enough to gain an advantage just in leg length but short enough to maintain impulsion.
 
Well, you know the ride to the tripple combination is also affected by the individual obsticals/elements. verticle, verticle, verticle rides differently than tripple bar, verticle, oxer, etc. Throw a liverpool or dry ditch into the equation and you have yourselves a party. The rudest tripple I ever saw was in Palm Beach where at the last GP of the WEF they built the tripple with B as a huge square oxer over the open water. Nearly half the class bit the dust. And it was a $150,000 class, so the big dogs were all there.
 
Is there some payoff in "learning" with this equestrianism or is it just amusement for the super rich.? I know Char will learn balance because life teaches us that anyway.This way she has headstart.
 
She seems to be competing quite regularly now.

She took part in another showjumping competition in Barbizon and run I don't know how many horses (Troy, Rubins, Costa, Carry...) , from october 3 to october 5.
Not that her results are any better, though.
Carry seems to be totally broken. She should sell it and try to extract as much as she can from little Costa Virgio before he gets bored aswell:

jump-results.com
 
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Charlotte is taking part in a CSI jumping in Caen.
Friday she was eliminated with Carry and got 5 points with Costa Virgio.
Saturday she was eliminated twice, both with Carry and Costa Virgio.

France-Ouest says that she fell off:
Jumping de Caen. La princesse Charlotte Casiraghi a chuté - Caen - Loisirs - Équitation - ouest-france.fr

The competition continues tomorrow but she's also schedulled to appear at a Cartier lunch next sunday in Madrid, so she will really be running from one place to another .
 
She really should decide what she wants to be: equestrian rider, horse owner, financial backer of the sport, fashion model, arts magazine publisher, producer. What's the point of doing all of this if you dont do it well? Why set yourself up for failure and ridicule? She needs to focus on one thing and try and do it right.
 
She was eliminated again this morning with Costa Virgio.
http://www.jump-results.com/OPEN/caen12/5u.pdf
4 eliminations out of 5 participations in a weekend!

It's the same pattern again and again, she spends her summer away, someone else rides her horses, she comes back, gets nice results one or two days, and the moment she starts riding regularly her horses herself the bad results acumulate.

Tintero, on the other hand, got 0 points yesterday at the 1'45 with Thierry:
http://www.jump-results.com/OPEN/caen12/4.pdf

Pics and news from yestarday :
Caen. Charlotte Casiraghi, la chute d'une princesse ! - People - ouest-france.fr

By, the way, Gad is in Caen with Charlotte. I don't have graphic proof but a friend who's there just twitted that she is sitting besides them both :)
 
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^ She left the place without her horse? Did she expect her groom to take him back? She always has an ambiguous attitude towards her horses. She pretends being obsessed by them, loving them a lot, but we have never seen any proof of it (on pics). She seems to be scared each time she's on a horse, there is no tenderness in the fact of waiting for your turn on an estrade, riding 3 minutes and going back to the tribune, leaving the horse to someone else. I agree that Charlotte doesn't train enough, but I also think that she should create a relationship with her horse. We all have seen pics of Zara taking care of her horses, but never of Charlotte - except when she's posing for photoshoots (Hola and Self Service for exemple). Spending time with them would allow her to be more confident. However, maybe I'm wrong and she does all of this secretly!
By the way as a rider, I have to recognize that Charlotte is very courageous to try to jump so high. It's also a bit crazy (because we can see that she isn't really prepared to do it) but there is something in this attitude that we have to notice. She fails, but she keeps on trying. Jumping is very impressive, it's not an easy sport at all.
If Gad is with her in Caen, no doubt that we are going to have pics of them!

Charlotte is quoted in the official press announce of the jumping. She is introduced as "the princess of Monaco": she's used by organisers for publicity to attract people. I wonder if she was paid to take part to the jumping, or if she did it to train before another GCT jumping.
 
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I don't think she was paid, Lovelykate. She's been riding quite consistently since Vienna. She was jumping1.30 in Barbizon last week, and in Fontainebleau 2 weeks prior to that. If she wants to keep jumping at that level Caen was a logical step.

About her abandoning the place without her horse, well, it looks like Costa Virgio rode away after refusing the jump and it was the groom who catched him. I don't see anything wrong with it or with the groom walking out of the ring the horse per se.

The really weird thing it that Charlotte doesn't seem to have any interest in him, she is just walking away, complaining about her back and ignoring the animal, not caring to calm him down or check if he's ok.
Everybody who's seen Charlotte jump can guess with a 99.999% of certainty that the fall was her fault. Her wonderful horses save her ass half the time but there is always a point when she makes things too complicated for them. Checking on Costa should had been her priority.

But your right, at least we can't deny that the girl has guts!
I don't know how she even dares to jump 1'40 courses !
 
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The reality is that there are only a certain amount of whatever level competitons, which you then winnow down based upon quality of footing, prize money, ease of getting there, hotels etc. Once a trainer has enjoyed a certain show, they will be more inclined to go back there year afer year with the whole string of horses and riders.
 
EquitaLyon has just started and Charlotte's got her first elimination with Costa Virgio.
The Result of Prix Comité Regional Equitation Rhône-Alpes at EQUITA' LYON

Looks like she's definitely broken the horse in under six months. Must be a new record.

For some unknow reason she only rode the 1.30 with Costa and is saving Carry for the 1.40 this afternoon.
Funny, when she hasn't been able to have even half decent results in 1.30 since I don't remember when..
 
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