Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career

[Baroness of Books]

Perhaps the horses are balking because they know something she doesn't?

 

[HRHHermione]

Perhaps the horses are balking because they know something she doesn't?

Probably that they're too off balance to safely jump because their rider isn't balanced and it's throwing them off, and also that their mouths hurt.

 

[kells]

I noticed this on TFS today, but I didn't comment because it wasn't fashion-related: She looks seriously depressed in these photos. And in all honesty, if she's not going to work hard at something, I don't think she has the passion for it. I hate to make a sweeping judgment like that because I don't know her, but she either needs to start from the bottom or give it up entirely, because it's obviously not making her happy. Gucci can't be happy either. Because as good as she looks in their clothes, if her losing streak continues, won't it be bad for business? I don't know.

On a much lighter note, I love how Pierre is always in costume. I mean, he looks adorable but that cap is something else. Good to know that his face isn't too damaged. He actually looks more like Stefano than ever...

 

[trepstrep]

I know I was harsh with her yesterday, but now I am feeling a little sorry for her... I've been lost with a horse too and I know how hard and scary it is. I can't even start to imagine how it must feel to feel lost with every horse you ride.
Luckily for me when I've felt that way I've had a trainer who really knew what was going wrong and helped me working on the problem until we solved it.
If my trainer hadn't been useful that way I would had left him and I would have started looking for someone else.

At this point Charlotte has to show that she is really a woman and not a spoiled little child who can't take decissions on her own.

A little girl sticks with her parents friends because they pamper her and they keep telling her how wonderful she is and how everything is the bad horsie's fault.

Maybe, now that she is sharing her life with someone from the real world she will start to see the truth. Gad looks like a clever guy. Thierry is ripping her off in such an obvious way, that even if he doesn't know anything about horses, or the factors that can make things go wrong, he probably will see that something is seriously amiss

 

[iceflower]

__________________


Here are some pics of the problematic incident Charlotte had with the horse during the competition yesterday, March 4:




** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** gallery **

 

[marieantoinette85]

Bounjour;

For me this equestrian participation (of CHAR.) was very positive, the results speak for themselves, and can be easily seen:

Day 1: (02/03/12)

Competitions nº8

With the horse Rubins Quibellle finish in 10º place, zero faults.

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_8_nice12_w1.pdf

Competitions nº10

With the horse Carryduff Z finish in 1º Course, zero faults. (but eliminate in the 2ª Course by excess time allow.)

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_10_nice12_w1.pdf


Day 2: (03/03/12)

Competitions nº15

With the horse Troy finish in 7º place, zero faults. (with Jump Off)

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_15_nice12_w1.pdf


Competitions nº17

With the horse Rubins Quibellle finish in 16º place, with zero flauts. (but not qualified because the excess of time allow.)

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_17_nice12_w1.pdf

Day 3: (04/03/12)

Competitions nº23

With the horse Carryduffy Z finish in th 1ª Course in 18 place, with zero faults. (but eliminate in the 2ª Course by excess time allow.)

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_23_nice12_w1.pdf

Competitions nº24

With the horse Troy was Eliminated. (THE ONLY ELIMINATED, WITH THE HORSE REFUSED)

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_24_nice12_w1.pdf

So now as you ALL can be seen easily, this participation was very good, and hopefully all the rest are like this too.

Admittedly CHAR. has a serious insufficiency of domain, and transmission to the horse Troy is a reality, no one escapes of it. It needs strong hand to lead this horse, A MEN hand, so its would be good to consider a possible replacement horse. This is not the most suitable horse for the wrists of CHAR. Troy is a men horse.

We learn & live, and live & learning.

Thanks God I do not suffer from any psychopathy, I not transform a single elimination course, such as hypertext to attack the dignity of CHAR. trying to hoodwink the others turning a single eliminated which is 10% or 15% of the entire results, in to 100% bad results competitions weekend. Thanks God !

A word of appreciation to the organizer of this event, (DIANE FISSORE) which is well worth, and deserves our affection, and admiration. Its here a simple interview, if anyone wants to see.

Interview avec Diane Fissore, Jumping de Nice Spring Tour - YouTube

Another word to a great coach, (a very nice personal) speak about Thierry Rozier, reached the 2º place of the big course, and more important competitions of this weekend, with my favority horse ... TINTERO.
( who is the stupid idiot coach here )

http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_27_nice12_w1.pdf

Another word to a great brother, and BIG men ... Pierre Casiraghi, thanks for the support, your sister needs a lot of it ... just missed the `` la ragazza italiana ´´ Well done Pierre.

Lets wait for the next week.

By the way: We have big champions in this weekend, in Nice Tour, like Edwina Tops, Kevin Staut, Penelope Leprevost, and Simon Delestre, the best French team at the moment, and what they to ... whats the results ?

________________________________
YouTube - Avril Lavigne - Girlfriend

 

[azure]

From the photos of 4th of March it seems like she gave the wrong directions to her horse?!

 

[trepstrep]

So now as you ALL can be seen easily, this participation was very good, and hopefully all the rest are like this too.

Marieantoinette, if you're going to keep pretending that you know anything about showjumping you really have to make an effort and learn something about the sport.

In showjumping you are not eliminated because of excess of time. When a rider exceeds the allowed time she is "not classified" and loses her chances to get a prize but she is allowed to finish her parcours and her final time appears in the results list.

An elimination in showjumping means that either the rider fell or the horse refused twice to jump (they are other cases, but those are the more frequent ones). When this happens the judges order the rider to leave the track and the words "eliminated" appear in the results list.

And that's what happened to Charlotte 5 times in 3 days because there is no indication of her final time in any of the lists you linked and it would had been if she had been not classified because of excess of time.
If that's not disastrous I don't know what it is.

Admittedly CHAR. has a serious insufficiency of domain, and transmission to the horse Troy is a reality, no one escapes of it. It needs strong hand to lead this horse, A MEN hand, so its would be good to consider a possible replacement horse.

A horse NEVER needs a hard hand. LIGHT HAND, LIGHT HAND AND MORE LIGHT HAND is what every horse in the world needs.

Actuallly, its' pretty easy to see that Charlotte has a very hard hand and that's where many of her problems come from.

The idea that you control a horse with fisical strenght is simply preposterous.

Oh, and nobody said Rozier was a bad rider. He is a bit old fashioned but not a bad rider.
He's just a bad trainer and, by all appearence, a very dishonest person.

 

[Baroness of Books]

I'm just glad horse and rider are safe; I'm no show jumper though I've ridden in the past, but the first rule of thumb I learned is that the horse gets its cues and directions from the rider, so if anyone's at fault it's the person handling the reins. The horse will sense the type of rider on its back, and will act accordingly. There can be serious injuries to both if the rider doesn't know what he/she is doing.

 

[HRHHermione]

She took a fall then for one of her eliminations. That might explain why she looked so scared and upset the rest of the weekend.

 

[marieantoinette85]

We have a lot of people in the world ... do we

The OC have the choice what is the techical mention ELIMINATED is. Not a people who dont know the diference between the left leg sequence start, from full trot, against galope racing field.

The only ELIMINATED course (by refusal horse) was in sunday, with the troy, post by ice today. see pics:

Olycom - News

If there were serious people in the world who want to learn something about ShowJumping, dont lose any time with personal with psychops.

DISCIPLINES - JUMPING - RULES

http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fi..._24thEd_2012_semi-mark-up_update_1Feb2012.pdf

http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fi.../Rules/JumpRules_24thEd_2012_full-mark-up.pdf


Here it is the rules of ShowJumping, from FEI.org in PDF, to read, and learn, in th CSI 1* the OC have the right to choose the terms ELIMINATED, for what he or she well understood.

The competitions nº 10, and nº 17, and nº 23; CHAR. was eliminated by excess of time allow, in the term of the rules of FEI.org. (above PDF) as the OC declared in is schedule, for this events CSI 1*.


By the way; when I post I dont respond to any members in particular, its my opinion in the general as observator, of the ShowJumping. That means I do not waste time reading some post because they are so absurd, and Ridiculous.

________________________________
YouTube - Avril Lavigne - Girlfriend

 

[trepstrep]

No, you are VERY wrong.
And I am going to show you why.

Let's take Charlotte's 1st elimination, with Carryduff on saturday:
http://www.horse-timing.com/web/Chrono/data/nice12/week1/r_10_nice12_w1.pdf

That competition was a two phases competition described the FEI rules under article 274.5.6 A kind oof competition which surprise, surprise! NEVER implies elimination by time.

Riders get penalties (points) if they go beyond the allowed time but they can continue and they can even win ,if they make less points than the other riders.

In this kind a competition a rider never gets out of the list and is never eliminated, no matter how long it takes her to finish her parcours.

If you check the pdf I linked you will see that some riders have 2 points, 1 point, 7 points.
How do you get that results if knocking down a pole or a refusal earns you 4 points?

Easy: a rider with 2 points is a rider who did a clear round but exceeded the allowed time and got 2 penalty points.
If you have a quick look at the results you can see that the allowed time was probably 42 seconds, and all the riders who surpased that time got 1 penaly point. It looks like those who took more than 46 seconds got 2 penaly points and those who took more than 50 seconds got 3 penalty points.
That's what happened to riders who surpased their allowed time. They got penaly points. They weren't eliminated.

But Charlotte didn't get any penalty points.
She was eliminated.
Because she didn't finish her parcours.
Either she fell or her horse refused twice to jump. 5 times in 3 days.
And that's it.

 

[marieantoinette85]

Trash trash trash with maximum respect.

Is amazing how people are ... JESUS !

I sending the PDF here with the official rules of these OC CSI 1* ShowJumping .... this people can see right

I´m not lose more time. FINISH !!!

When you want to prove something is not enough just to write, and WRITE, and WRITE ....

Need to prove with official documents of the rules of FEI.org., and I see nothing, NOTHING HERE ... just trash ... you just write, and WRITE, and dont prove nothing with OFFICIAL DOCS.

I PROVE ALL, WHAT I WRITE IN HERE, (like allways) WITH OFFICIAL DOCS.

YOU NOTHING PLEASE READ THE DOCS, and write next ...

STOP ! Is Ridiculous.

 

[HRHHermione]

The emoticons in this thread are beginning to give me a headache. And anyone with any basic horse knowledge would be able to look at the photos of Charlotte riding and tell there are a lot of problems there. This isn't even remotely debatable at this point.

Charlotte had a really bad show- the worst she's done in awhile. She looks like she hasn't been training at all and it shows. I think that's why she looks so terrified- not enough time in the saddle recently and so she's feeling less comfortable and less confident.

 

[marieantoinette85]

I do not know how many times you are see the show of CHAR. but really sorry this weekend was very good.

IN THE PASS EVENTS SHE NEVER GOES TO THE JUMP-OFF !!! OR COMPLET WITH ZERO FAULTS !!! IS IMMEDIATELY ELIMINATED !

Can you not see the diference.

In this ShowJumping she goes 2 times to the Jump-Off, and make 4 or 5 parcours, with ZERO FLAUTS.

And that is BAD ... PLEASE BE HONEST.

She improved a lot/enough it is a reality ! Its to be continued !

CONGRATULATIONS ... CHAR. !


________________________
(I´m finish for this week)

 

[NGalitzine]

___________________


Here are some new pics dated March 2nd. Pierre was there to support Charlotte,
but while he looked quite relaxed and happy, it obviously wasn't Charlotte's best day:




** Pic 1 **

If this is the new face of Gucci they are paying too much. She needs to go back to the basics and learn how to ride. I feel sorry for the horses which must be having their own confidence shaken by being riden by a less than competent rider.

 

[FanofMonaco]

I think Charlotte is the one that is balking. Right before she comes to a jump she leans back in her saddle (viewed on video from previous events). Isn't that telling the horse to stop? The horses are confused by her directions. The pros go over the jumps in a fluid motion. Charlotte also is too dependent on her stirrups and reins. She needs to learn to ride without a saddle or reins. That would force her to have the correct form. Help me out TrepStep? Am I starting to figure out how this sport works?

 

[HRHHermione]

I think Charlotte is the one that is balking. Right before she comes to a jump she leans back in her saddle (viewed on video from previous events). Isn't that telling the horse to stop? The horses are confused by her directions. The pros go over the jumps in a fluid motion. Charlotte also is too dependent on her stirrups and reins. She needs to learn to ride without a saddle or reins. That would force her to have the correct form. Help me out TrepStep? Am I starting to figure out how this sport works?

I'm not TrepStep but that sounds totally accurate to me And yes... throwing her weight back like that would certainly tell the horse to slow down or stop. I think she's off balance as she comes up to the jump and it means her horses are off balance and also that they don't know what she wants.

 

[FanofMonaco]

Thanks HRH. I can't wait for the Olympics. (I know Charlotte won't be in them) I have really become a fan of show jumping and it is due to Charlotte.

 

[LovelyKate]

Without saddle or reins I don't know but without stirrups that's sure. She should go back to basics and learn how to behave with a horse from the beginning. There is no shame in doing it. It would be more logical to do this than keeping on competiting in high level jumpings. When you have such a bad position with a wrong balance (I really think that Charlotte doesn't know how to do) you don't jump 1m20, 25 or 30.
Someone said previously that Thierry Rozier was an old fashionned rider, I think that he is an old fashionned trainer too. I mean, he must belong to this kind of trainer who makes you jump higher and higher without explaining you how to do with your body, with your hand. I learnt horse riding with this kind of people. I was very afraid of jumping because I didn't know how to adapt myself to my horse's jump. I disliked jumping because of it. Now I have changed of trainer and the new one explains my everything: I feel better and more confident. I talked to my new trainer who told me that now in France things have changed, young trainer teach differently, with more explainations. It's better! I really think that Charlotte should go away to see how things happen in another place with someone else.
She must be staying with him because he's a friend of her family, she's been knowing him since her childhood, so leaving him is a difficult decision to take. I really think that things would be more simple if Charlotte wasn't sentimentally involved with him - be careful, I don't talk about love! Just about affection between two friends.

 

[HRHHermione]

Thanks HRH. I can't wait for the Olympics. (I know Charlotte won't be in them) I have really become a fan of show jumping and it is due to Charlotte.

I'm looking forward to watching them too Perhaps we can get a separate thread going to discuss the equestrian events when the Olympics start.

 

[FanofMonaco]

I agree with you Kate. I think Charlotte doesn't want to leave a family friend; especially during a recession. She may like the area she lives in also. I would think dating a Parisian would give her an excuse to move to Paris and find a new coach.

 

[LovelyKate]

^ But living in Paris next to Gad would be more simple for her, because the Rozier live next to Paris, don't they? It's even easier for her than when she lived in London with Alex. I don't see what would help Charlotte to take her decision. She must feel secure in this familiar place. And there is something I have been thinking about for a long time, but maybe I'm wrong: Charlotte doesn't have any father anymore, and I think that Thierry Rozier, that she's been knowing since her childhood, must be someone special for her, an important one in her life. That could also explain why she does stay with him.

 

[Baroness of Books]

If this is the new face of Gucci they are paying too much. She needs to go back to the basics and learn how to ride. I feel sorry for the horses which must be having their own confidence shaken by being riden by a less than competent rider.

So totally agree; with that look of fright/dismay on her face, she needs to go back to the drawing board. I also feel sorry for her horses when they're handled by a less-than-capable rider.

 

[marine2109]

Charlotte Casiraghi competes in an equestrian event in Nice
Nice, France - 04.03.12

WENN Photo Library - Search Results

 

[agogo]

I don't ride horses so I ask the equestrians here...can a horse sense when It's rider is nervous or upset? Does the horse feel a lack of confidence from the rider? Perhaps a lot of personal issues are simmering in Charlotte's life. Although she keeps her personal stuff private maybe we are seeing the effects of personal turmoil.

 

[HRHHermione]

I don't ride horses so I ask the equestrians here...can a horse sense when It's rider is nervous or upset? Does the horse feel a lack of confidence from the rider? Perhaps a lot of personal issues are simmering in Charlotte's life. Although she keeps her personal stuff private maybe we are seeing the effects of personal turmoil.

Certainly, and that could be a small factor. It's not the main one though- she's had the same trouble with her riding for a long time.

 

[trepstrep]

I think Charlotte is the one that is balking. Right before she comes to a jump she leans back in her saddle (viewed on video from previous events). Isn't that telling the horse to stop? The horses are confused by her directions. The pros go over the jumps in a fluid motion. Charlotte also is too dependent on her stirrups and reins. She needs to learn to ride without a saddle or reins. That would force her to have the correct form. Help me out TrepStep? Am I starting to figure out how this sport works?

I am only an amateur rider and we only have a few pics to judge, so, my interpretation can be totally wrong, but...
imho, you are right when you say that Charllotte is too dependent on the reins and her balances seems very off in most pics.

In this particular case of Troy's refusal you are right when you see that Charlotte seems to be balking and pulling on the reins as if to tell the horse to stop, but it is not exactly that.

I'll try to explain it (help me out, rest of the riders of the forum if you find my explanation confuse, I don't know very well the equestrian terms in english)

There is a perfect spot from which each obstacle should be jumped. And the most difficult thing in showjumping is to get your horse to arrive at the precise distance from the jump that allows him to take the last stride, the beating stride that starts the jump, at that perfect spot.

The key to a good jump is in the canter. When you find the good canter, the right canter for you and your horse, something magical happens and you "see" the distances easily, and without any effort, the stride of the horse seem to regulate themselves so that the last stride takes him to the perfect spot to take the jump.

It seems quite an vague concept and it is the most difficult thing to achieve. Of course, it's something that everybody can work on and improve, but the best riders seem to magically have it. That's why they seem so fluent, and you don't see them pulling at the reins or urging their horses forward. If you see a video of Michel Robert of Pénélope Leprévost it looks as if they don't do anything at all.

Amateurs riders on the other hand usually see that they are arriving to the obstacle at the wrong distance when it is too late. 2 o 3 strides before the jump you realize that your last stride is going to be too close or too far away to the obstacle. And you have to do something to solve the problem in the last minute!
You suddenly have to decide which will be better to solve your problem. To pull your horse forward or to slow it, to take the jump from a bit too close or a bit to far away.

From the Troy pics, it looks as if Charlotte realized too late that she will be arriving to close to the obstacle and the horse wouldn't be able to jump it.
When this is the case you have two options:
-either you accelerate and make your horse steps wider in order to do one less stride and take the jump from a bit far away.
-either you sit back and try to slow your horse in order to try to make his strides shorter and distance the horse as much as posible from the jump in the last stride.
This seems the option that Charlotte took. That's why it looks as if she is stopping the horse.
Unfortunately, it was already too late to try to solve the problem, they arrived to close to the jump and the horse balked.

 

[scooter]

I don't ride horses so I ask the equestrians here...can a horse sense when It's rider is nervous or upset? Does the horse feel a lack of confidence from the rider? Perhaps a lot of personal issues are simmering in Charlotte's life. Although she keeps her personal stuff private maybe we are seeing the effects of personal turmoil.

Some horses are more sensitive to that kind of thing than others. On the other hand, there are many made/older horses called 'school masters' or 'bomb proof' or more unkindly 'seeing eye dogs' who will take whatever rider right around, no matter what the rider does. These are often some of the most expensive Jr/AO horses out there, if they can also jump the height.

 

[scooter]

I'm looking forward to watching them too Perhaps we can get a separate thread going to discuss the equestrian events when the Olympics start.

This would be interesting. Here in the US, one of our best GP riders McLain Ward recently shattered his kneecap in 22 places. It is doubtful he will be fit for the trials, but USEF/USET is considering giving him a bye (place on the team without having to do the trials). He was part of the Gold Medal Team from the last Olympics with Sapphire.