Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


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It's interesting to see that...yes, it happens to me that whenever i see Charlotte Casiraghi, or i read her name, Monaco comes to mind inmediately. But, i think that's normal, she is very much "Princess Caroline's daughter". In all the press she gets, she always is credited as "Princess Caroline's daughter" or "Grace Kelly's granddaughter" and it will always be like that. Will be hard to get her own recognition...specially if she doesn't stand out in something.

But...thinking it again, it's quite natural that she and her brothers advertise Monaco, wherever they go. When they talk. What they talk. If they are well educated, if they seem inteligent or not. It's a way to sell Monaco. She (and brothers) might not have an oficial function in the Principality, but they do sell Monaco too, they want it or not.
 
FanofMonaco said:
Charlotte did much better today. She came in 25/46 at 1.35m, 2*, in the Accumulator competition . She rode CarryDuffZ.
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Her results in the an Accumulator confirm that she is going too quickly and jumping competitions she is not prepared to ride.
Accumulators are usually good for people with security issues because you start with quite small jumps and the high and difficulty goes increasing, so if you have a safe horse, as Charlotte must have, you jump very easily over the first fences and and when you get to the couple of last difficult ones you've already done a few good jumps, it's good for your confidence.
From her results you can tell that she probably failed one or two jumps and then chose not to risk the joker. It shows that she isn't very confident.
All those people with 25 points who are after her, look like people who took the jocker and failed, or people who took much biggers risks (look at their time and compare it with Charlotte's,)so, they probably had much better courses than Charlotte even if they are behind her in the list.
Also, Charlotte time is very high, which usually indicates that she had trouble at some fence and the horse refused to jump and had to go for it again...
all in all, this result is not as good as it looks if you know how an accumulator works :-(

Nathalie Cox said:
She looks scared. :ermm:
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And she's not the only one. Look at the horse's eyes. I'm afraid that what happened with Tintero may be happening again :sad:
 
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It's really bad to hear that her horse refused to jump. It means that the way she handles him/her is very wrong and that there's no communication between them. Maybe that's another main problem for her results.

~ Grr.. i can't view the pictures.. Zimbio must hate me!
 
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azure said:
It's really bad to hear that her horse refused to jump. It means that the way she handles him/her is very wrong and that there's no communication between them. Maybe that's another main problem for her results.

~ Grr.. i can't view the pictures.. Zimbio must hate me!
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can you show me link maybe i view ??
 
It's the post #1323. Sugarbaby318 posted the link:flowers:
 
Charlotte did seem nervous in the pictures, but I like the fact that she is riding more now. The best thing to improve her riding and timing is to put in alot of hours of continuous riding.

On a happier note, Athina is doing very well. She finished 11th on Friday at 5*, 1.50-1.60m and 9th and 14th today in the accumulator. Both days she has won money. She is slow but accurate.
 
just noticed something here. According to that, Charlotte now owns Carry Duff Z.

Rider: Charlotte Casiraghi
Owner: Casiraghi Charlotte

hummm....
 
FanofMonaco said:
Charlotte did seem nervous in the pictures, but I like the fact that she is riding more now. The best thing to improve her riding and timing is to put in alot of hours of continuous riding.

On a happier note, Athina is doing very well. She finished 11th on Friday at 5*, 1.50-1.60m and 9th and 14th today in the accumulator. Both days she has won money. She is slow but accurate.
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In practice, not in competition. Continuing to compete above her level is bad for her and it's bad for her horses. I agree with what was said earlier- she needs a new coach who will force her back to basics and be realistic with her about her skill level and how to improve it.

Good for Athina though!
 
I no longer ride and was never any good, but I do see some signals here that I wish the experienced riders would comment on. The first thing I noticed especially is in the 3rd picture. It seems to me that both the horses eyes and mouth are NOT looking happy. Is it my imagination/lack of knowledge that it seems to me she is a bit heavy on the horse's mouth???
 
Princess of Durham said:
I no longer ride and was never any good, but I do see some signals here that I wish the experienced riders would comment on. The first thing I noticed especially is in the 3rd picture. It seems to me that both the horses eyes and mouth are NOT looking happy. Is it my imagination/lack of knowledge that it seems to me she is a bit heavy on the horse's mouth???
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I ride mainly for pleasure and I'm not an expert either- I've been riding a long time and I have horses but I don't show at all any more. I had the same impression as you- she's heavy on the horse's mouth and her posture also seemed very off to me in some pictures- she's leaning forward and her horse looks off balance.

Can we get a trepstep ruling on this? :)
 
HRHHermione said:
I ride mainly for pleasure and I'm not an expert either- I've been riding a long time and I have horses but I don't show at all any more. I had the same impression as you- she's heavy on the horse's mouth and her posture also seemed very off to me in some pictures- she's leaning forward and her horse looks off balance.

Can we get a trepstep ruling on this? :)
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Glups! I'm not a pro or anything like that! It's not my place to rule! At all!

But I agree with you. The horse does not have happy eyes. He looks scared. And it's not the 1st time I've noticed she may have a hard hand. She also seems to have a tendency to put herself forward, and to go ahead than the horse when jumping (I don't know how you say that in english, sorry...)
I've noticed thought that she's started FINALLY! to hold her reins like a normal person. Some months ago she still used to hold them in a grip with all her fingers together, but she's surprised me here with her little finger outside the reins! did anyone else notice that?
 
I didn't notice the horse, but you are right, he looks scared/not comfortable.
Charlotte may be to work on her confindence with her and the horse.
 
trepstrep said:
Glups! I'm not a pro or anything like that! It's not my place to rule! At all!

But I agree with you. The horse does not have happy eyes. He looks scared. And it's not the 1st time I've noticed she may have a hard hand. She also seems to have a tendency to put herself forward, and to go ahead than the horse when jumping (I don't know how you say that in english, sorry...)
I've noticed thought that she's started FINALLY! to hold her reins like a normal person. Some months ago she still used to hold them in a grip with all her fingers together, but she's surprised me here with her little finger outside the reins! did anyone else notice that?
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I can't believe she was ever in competition holding her reins like that! I hadn't been checking this forum. Good on her for fixing that and holding them correctly, but how on earth did her coach EVER put her in high level competition if she couldn't master something that basic?

I feel like a lot of people here think that when Charlotte's equestrian career is criticized, it's a criticism of her personally. It's not at all- I actually rather like Charlotte- and I hate seeing her putting herself in danger and doing damage to talented horses. And make no mistake, that's what she's doing.

There's a reason you can't skip steps in horseback riding and why you have to do a ton of repetitive drills on basic things before you begin to think about showjumping. You need to develop your seat and your balance and you need to use your hands correctly, and the only way to do that is tons of practice on the flat. Right now, Charlotte's not capable of helping her horses through the course. Based on these pictures, her balance isn't what it should be and she doesn't have a good feel for the horse's mouth. The result is a scared rider and a scared/annoyed horse who isn't sure what it's supposed to do.

She treats riding like it's a glamorous thing to do (she's made statements to that effect and her partnership with Gucci has emphasized that quite a bit) but the thing is: it's not. It's glamorous in the show ring, but if you're a real rider, that's about 1% of the time you spend doing this. Riding is a lot of canter circles and working on transitions and timing and conditioning rides and lunging and training and hitting the dirt and getting grass drool all over yourself when you lead your horse in and being sweaty and covered in horse hair. And it also means spending time bonding with your horse by helping with its care- you need to be a partnership and you need to trust each other. It's a sport that requires real passion for the animals and everything related to them, and I just don't see that from her. That's not a personal failing on her part, but it's an indication that she really needs to make a decision and either focus on the other parts of her career or truly commit herself to her riding and go back to drilling on basics for awhile before she shows again. (And when she does show again, it should be at a more appropriate level)

Oh, and trepstep, you're right about her being ahead of the horse on jumps a lot of the time- which I think is really contributing to her poor results.

Oh, and I'm sorry to keep bombing the thread with replies, but I thought that some of the people who like to visit this thread but don't know much about riding might enjoy this wikipedia article on the jumping position- Jumping position - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It explains some of the problems that can be caused by bad position, which we've been talking about with Charlotte.
 
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Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same.
 
FanofMonaco said:
Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same.
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No problem! That actually made me a bit curious about the Roziers, because bad position is something that just can't be overcome- there's no way they'd ride at the level they do if they rode that way. It's always going to throw off the horse's balance and it's always going to produce bad results over higher fences. The horse can compensate over lower ones, but as they get higher, it's not possible.

The Roziers actually both have pretty perfect positions- watch their hip angles particularly. When they jump, they kind of fold their body down and the angle between their hip and and body closes- Charlotte's opens. That's what puts her ahead of the horse over the jump. That also throws her balance off, and she compensates for the lack of balance by hauling on the bit, which is a major problem. In my humble and not at all expert opinion, that's why she has so many refusals- her horses have gotten used to their mouths being handled badly on landing, and now they don't want to jump.

It means that either her coach is a poor teacher, or more likely, wants to keep Charlotte happy and doesn't offer her enough constructive criticism. She needs someone who will drill her on basics, which aren't particularly glamorous or fun to practice. She really needs to stop following the GCT until she does that- at this point, it can't be fun for her and it's certainly not fun for her horses.

Her approach to show jumping reminds me of a character in a series of American children's books- Veronica diAngelo, from The Saddle Club.
 
My concern also is the potential danger to Charlotte. Whenever I see show jumping I am reminded of the wonderful Christopher Reeves and how he spent his last years. I would hate for that to happen to Charlotte ... as I would for anyone.
 
Princess of Durham said:
My concern also is the potential danger to Charlotte. Whenever I see show jumping I am reminded of the wonderful Christopher Reeves and how he spent his last years. I would hate for that to happen to Charlotte ... as I would for anyone.
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It's understandable to be concerned, but it's unlikely she'll be injured that badly. She does show jumping- Christopher Reeve was injured doing cross country, which is a lot more dangerous.

It's more likely that she'll continue to ruin the training of her horses, and she'll eventually get fed up with her poor results and quit the sport. Which would be a shame- I love equestrian sports and anyone who brings attention to them is great for the sport. I just wish she'd slow down and do it right so that she can really be an asset to the sport.
 
Sorry HRH. I didn't notice you were American the first time. I am not a rider so I don't pick up on things like you do. What I noticed is that their feet go way back when they jump. The Amercian Richard Fellers? also does this. I have also noticed that the very best riders don't seem to move much from the hip down. They hinge at the waist. I can see where this would help the horse. The less the rider moves around the easier it is for the horse to stay balanced. The good riders make it look easy, but I know it isn't.I really enjoy watching show jumping on the internet. I wish it were shown more on tv here. Mostly see rodeo locally.
 
FanofMonaco said:
Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same. .
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hahhaaa, Bost is the weirdest rider ever!He's got such bad posture and balance... I've never seen anyone who looks so ugly on a horse. He seems to do everything wrong and yet, his "system" works for him and him alone!

Actually, the french have amazingly correct riders, with wonderful mechanics and position. Watching Michel Robert or Pénélope Leprevost is a joy for the eye. They're so subtle, so symbiotic with their horses.
American riders are usally very subtle and light on the hand as well. I really like them. Laura Kraut is great.
The germans and dutch are different. They usually put more emphasis on control and they are more interventional.

I believe the important thing is to find a style that suits you. All of them can be effective if done properly.
 
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I have noticed in the US that most of the competitions are hunter class. You are scored on technique as well as faults and time. I think this is good for people learning the sport. Do they have that in France TrepStep?

I have also been thinking about what you have said TrepStep about the difference between 1* and 2*. Charlotte is definitely having a harder time with 2*. I am thinking the difference is where the higher fences are placed. eg. In 1* the course designer might put a low jump after a hard turn and in 2* they might put a high fence, making the course more difficult. She has been jumping 1.30 and 1.35m for over a year so she is used to the height at least in a straight line.What do you think?
 
FanofMonaco said:
I have noticed in the US that most of the competitions are hunter class. You are scored on technique as well as faults and time. I think this is good for people learning the sport. Do they have that in France TrepStep?

I have also been thinking about what you have said TrepStep about the difference between 1* and 2*. Charlotte is definitely having a harder time with 2*. I am thinking the difference is where the higher fences are placed. eg. In 1* the course designer might put a low jump after a hard turn and in 2* they might put a high fence, making the course more difficult. She has been jumping 1.30 and 1.35m for over a year so she is used to the height at least in a straight line.What do you think?
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Here in the US we have hunter divisions (scored subjectively on how pretty, smooth and classical the round is) and jumper divisions (leave the jumps up and go the fastest and you win). The anology I use is it is the difference between figure skating and hockey.
 
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Do they still get deductions for dropped rails and times, Scooter? What percentage of the score is subjective?
 
For hunters it's completely subjective. There are, however, no time faults accrued. A rail down (in theory) is only penalized if it is due to poor form in the horse's jump, not a rider error. In practice though, a dropped rail will put you out of the money.
 
Scooter , that doesn't sound like much of a sport. More like ice dancing, which I hate, than figure skating. I prefer show jumping.
 
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