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  #1921  
Old 10-31-2012, 12:46 PM
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Wow, another elimination....
I can't understand... If she can't have decent results jumping at 1.30 why does she tries the 1.40???
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  #1922  
Old 10-31-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
EquitaLyon has just started and Charlotte's got her first elimination with Costa Virgio.
The Result of Prix Comité Regional Equitation Rhône-Alpes at EQUITA' LYON

Looks like she's definitely broken the horse in under six months. Must be a new record.

..
Sadly, not the kind of record that one wins applause or prizes for. Someone needs to tell this girl that not every heiress is cut out to be a top equestrian, especially when they do not train every day. You cannot go traipsing around the world to attend parties and then come back and just hop onto your horse and expect good results. So far she has been lucky to avoid a serious fall or injury but eventually luck runs out.
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  #1923  
Old 10-31-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
EquitaLyon has just started and Charlotte's got her first elimination with Costa Virgio.
The Result of Prix Comité Regional Equitation Rhône-Alpes at EQUITA' LYON

Looks like she's definitely broken the horse in under six months. Must be a new record.

For some unknow reason she only rode the 1.30 with Costa and is saving Carry for the 1.40 this afternoon.
Funny, when she hasn't been able to have even half decent results in 1.30 since I don't remember when..
Sigh. Poor Costa. Hopefully he's finally objected to her riding enough times that he'll end up back in the hands of a decent rider for awhile.

She has to know at this point that she's the problem right? She's been through enough horses at this point who were great when she got them and had no confidence at all when she was finished to have at least recognized that her problem isn't her horses.

I will never, ever understand why she keeps doing this. In my opinion, she should have quit gracefully and gone back to riding for fun only awhile ago.
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  #1924  
Old 10-31-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Sadly, not the kind of record that one wins applause or prizes for. Someone needs to tell this girl that not every heiress is cut out to be a top equestrian, especially when they do not train every day. You cannot go traipsing around the world to attend parties and then come back and just hop onto your horse and expect good results. So far she has been lucky to avoid a serious fall or injury but eventually luck runs out.
The sad thing is that she's been riding quite frequently these past weeks. Appart from the short trip to Madrid she's been riding non-stop since Vienna, so we can't say that the problem now is lack of comitment or work.

Watching from far away as we are, I kind of think that her problems lay in other areas:

1. she doesn't ride at the right level. you souldn't ride a higher level untill you master the lower one, but charlotte moved to 1.30 while still having bad results at 1.20, and now she is moving to 1.40 while still having awful results at 1.30

2. she doesn't ride the right horses. since she can pay for them, she owns several bright classy horses, still relatively young. Horses who need talented and sensitive riders to shine. A rider with Charlotte habilities should ride what jumpers sometimes call an "authomatic" horse, meaning an older horse, with plenty of experience, not very sensitive or classy, but calm and sure of himself.
A horse that's riden 1.40 courses in his prime, and now, being older, could still manage a 1.20 course with his eyes closed.

3. she doesn't have the right trainer. Every rider who wishes to become an international 5* rider one day, knows that it is very important to travel and train with different people, people who are used to help young riders and take them to 5* level. Only a top rider can help you become a top rider, and Thierry is not that. You don't stick with the teacher who gave you pony lessons when you were 13!

It is quite telling that the guy doesn't apparently have horses of his own, or horses of other private owners that he rides. He isn't a real 5* rider and if you make a quick search in the ffe and fei web sites, you can see that he only rides Charlotte's horses (tintero, usually).
He doesn't have any other clients! He goes around the world, dressed with Gucci clothes and riding Charlotte horses. If it weren't for her he wouldn't even be riding the international circuit!

In any case, it is obvious that he is a bad counsellor since he makes charlotte buy all those horses that don't suit her and ride those competitions she is not prepared to ride.

4. well, she is not very talented... the proof is that everytime she disappears and other people from the Rozier stables prepare and ride her horses, the day she appears on a show she usually gets acceptable results.
BUT, when she has been working hard and riding on a regular basis, like this autumn her horses do always bad. She undoes the work the riders of the Rozier stables do with them.

Well, the 1.40 is over and Charlotte came in last of 56 riders with 24 points, 10 more points than the second to last rider!

The Result of Prix SHF at EQUITA' LYON

Tomorrow there is a 1.45 table A and a 1.35 accumulator. If she is wise enough she should ride the 1.35 with both horses and forget the 1.45.

Also, accumulators usually work better for horses and riders with trust issues, so she has a chance to have better results than she usually has in it.
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  #1925  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post

4. well, she is not very talented... the proof is that everytime she disappears and other people from the Rozier stables prepare and ride her horses, the day she appears on a show she usually gets acceptable results.
BUT, when she has been working hard and riding on a regular basis, like this autumn her horses do always bad. She undoes the work the riders of the Rozier stables do with them.


I agree with your latest argument, that she is not very talented. But i am quite surprised about it (not because of the lack of her talent; that's sth i already know) but when she was young she was promising. You could see her winning prices and be very trained and god at horse - riding. I cannot figure out that overthrow now. Since 2008 (that must be the year she started horse riding again after a long quit) she hasn't been good.
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  #1926  
Old 11-01-2012, 07:39 AM
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I agree with your latest argument, that she is not very talented. But i am quite surprised about it (not because of the lack of her talent; that's sth i already know) but when she was young she was promising. You could see her winning prices and be very trained and god at horse - riding. I cannot figure out that overthrow now. Since 2008 (that must be the year she started horse riding again after a long quit) she hasn't been good.
When she was young she rode at a much lower level and she rode the right horse.
Tempête du Midi looked like the perfect amateur pony. Experienced, with a very good head and knowing his job.

Also, when you ride 1'10 competitions most of your rivals are middle-class riders who can't afford top horses and don't train more than twice a week, when their studies/jobs let them free time and they can pay for their lessons. With the right horse, propertly trained you can get good results and all the competitions you enter, non-stop. With an experienced horse any rider can have good results, you just have to sit there and point the horse to the next fence!

Now, when you enter higher level competitions everything changes. The riders are more commited, even if they are amateurs they spend more time training, many of them own good horses... And the horses need help from their riders. They don't do it everything by themselves anymore.

If you think about it, Charlotte triumphs were obtained mainly while she was riding Tempête.
The moment she moved onto horses, even if she was riding at a much lower level than now, her results were never really good. If I am not wrong, she didn't win anything with Folka or Dumba ever.
Also, since she was a student, she probably didn'r rode more than 2-3 times a week. Thierry trained the horses daily for her.

If Charlotte was riding at 1'15-1'20 amateur level, she would probably still be getting decent results. She's just not ready for pro level....

As expected, she's got a very good result at the accumulator with Costa Virgio:

The Result of Prix Région Rhône-Alpes at EQUITA' LYON

Accumulators are a very special kind of competition, very funny to watch, where the horses as to jump obstacles of increasing difficulty from lower to higher and the more points the better.
They usually work very well for horses with talent but trust issues, because they start with quite low jumps, that are easy for them, and the gain confidence jump after jump and without even properly realizing that the height is growing.

But Carry at 1'45 was of course another elimination:
The Result of Prix Equidia Life at EQUITA' LYON

I don't get it.
I'm just an amateur, I am hundreds of kilometers away, I've never seen Charlotte ride live, I don't know her horses and I can guess accuretly what's going to happen everytime and her trainer can't????

It's beyond absurd.

And it's sad because I really love the fact that she is a rider. That's one of the main reason why I am interested in her. But if she keeps going like this she will quit sooner than later :-(

Edit:
2 pics of Charlotte and Carry in Lyon. I like her jumper!
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3559941&type=1
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  #1927  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
When she was young she rode at a much lower level and she rode the right horse.
Tempête du Midi looked like the perfect amateur pony. Experienced, with a very good head and knowing his job.

Also, when you ride 1'10 competitions most of your rivals are middle-class riders who can't afford top horses and don't train more than twice a week, when their studies/jobs let them free time and they can pay for their lessons. With the right horse, propertly trained you can get good results and all the competitions you enter, non-stop. With an experienced horse any rider can have good results, you just have to sit there and point the horse to the next fence!

Now, when you enter higher level competitions everything changes. The riders are more commited, even if they are amateurs they spend more time training, many of them own good horses... And the horses need help from their riders. They don't do it everything by themselves anymore.

If you think about it, Charlotte triumphs were obtained mainly while she was riding Tempête.
The moment she moved onto horses, even if she was riding at a much lower level than now, her results were never really good. If I am not wrong, she didn't win anything with Folka or Dumba ever.
Also, since she was a student, she probably didn'r rode more than 2-3 times a week. Thierry trained the horses daily for her.

If Charlotte was riding at 1'15-1'20 amateur level, she would probably still be getting decent results. She's just not ready for pro level....
Thanks for the clarification!! I forgot that she used to jump in lower heights. Of course, that must have been much easier. But again, she had such an appetite for horse riding. Now it seems like sth is pushing her, like it's an obligatory for her. Well, it could be, as her Gucci contract has to do with horse riding style.

I don't understand why she keeps having Thierry, when he is not tha good for her. I mean i don't think he's giving her important instructions. Maybe just becasue she knows him so many years and have been by her side in all her horse riding "path", she just has the need to keep him.

Having a dozens of horses, who by the way are underestimated with her, is not good either.
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  #1928  
Old 11-02-2012, 11:12 AM
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Oh, God, she's been eliminated today aswell!
The Result of Prix Generali at EQUITA' LYON

I don't think I'm going to keep posting her results because she's become some sort of sad joke and it seems seems kind of silly to keep track on her, anymore :-(
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  #1929  
Old 11-02-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep
Oh, God, she's been eliminated today aswell!
The Result of Prix Generali at EQUITA' LYON

I don't think I'm going to keep posting her results because she's become some sort of sad joke and it seems seems kind of silly to keep track on her, anymore :-(
That's why I stopped following the thread for awhile. I can only imagine what the other riders say about her behind her back.
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  #1930  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:26 PM
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Well, the decision about what division she competes at is the trainer's. And a rider trying to move up also does not expect to have any good result at the begining (which could go on for quite some time)..
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  #1931  
Old 11-02-2012, 09:40 PM
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Well, the decision about what division she competes at is the trainer's. And a rider trying to move up also does not expect to have any good result at the begining (which could go on for quite some time)..
But you'd also expect a rider not to even try to move up unless they were getting consistently good results in the lower division.
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  #1932  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:01 AM
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Well, she doesn't get horse riding proffesionally, it's not even a carreer! She is taking part in races to promote the sport (according to her words - if i am not mistaken.)
I just don't get that: isn't she embarrassed with all the bad results? It is not that is happened only once or twice, but the bad results and eliminations are happening repeatedly. It's not good for her profile as a rider.
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  #1933  
Old 11-03-2012, 05:16 AM
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Well, the decision about what division she competes at is the trainer's. And a rider trying to move up also does not expect to have any good result at the begining (which could go on for quite some time)..
In a normal trainer-rider relationship, maybe.
In this case Charlotte seems to be Thierry's only client. The only horses he rides are Charlotte's (he is even riding the 5* with Tintero), so I don't think the relationship balance is in the right place.

Also, what kind of teacher encourages a pupil who can't have decent results at 1'30 to ride 1.45?

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Well, she doesn't get horse riding proffesionally, it's not even a carreer! She is taking part in races to promote the sport (according to her words - if i am not mistaken.)
I just don't get that: isn't she embarrassed with all the bad results? It is not that is happened only once or twice, but the bad results and eliminations are happening repeatedly. It's not good for her profile as a rider.
Well of course she doesn't ride profesionally! Most riders don't! But she clearly wants to move in the pro world and she does have a profesional riding license, you just have to check the ffe site.

Anyway, I don't think that being an amateur is an excuse to break horse after horse and go travelling around france looking like a fool!

About her "riding to promote the sport" I kind of remember she said something wanting to promote the sport, once, talking about the GCT, but I she never said that's the reason why she rides.

She probably wants to promote the GCT because in all likelihood she has business interests in it, and that's only fair.
But she has also stated several times that horses are her livfe ,that she came back to the horse's world because she wanted to do "du vraiment serieux", her and her trainer have been repeating to journalists that she wants to ride in the Olympics and when asked if she wanted to become a pro on tv she answered "pourquoi pas?".
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  #1934  
Old 11-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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She probably wants to promote the GCT because in all likelihood she has business interests in it, and that's only fair.
Consistently demonstrating failure is not a good way to promote anything.
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  #1935  
Old 11-03-2012, 06:26 PM
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She´s not very good so what? As long as she´s happy with what she does, there´s no problem for me. I hope the horse does not suffer
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  #1936  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:22 AM
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Unfortunately some of her horses did suffer. I don't know how her new horses are doing. Actually i have lost count of her horses.
I hope we see any improvement. I doubt she feels ok with her failures. It's not the best when you say to others that you want to go to the Olympics. She will never go, as long as her results are like this. The Olympic athletes are "gold stars" and proffessionals of a great level.
Olympics is not a game and even if her uncle was part of it, it doesn't mean that those of the Grimaldi family must go to the Olympics!
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  #1937  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:17 PM
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Charlotte identifies herself as a perfectionist. So I doubt she's pleased with the results she's getting. (atleast in dressage, you can blame it on the jury)
Some horses do jump better on the higher fences but hers tend to jump sh.t all around.

My advice for her, as I've always said, would be to move onto a different, foreign trainer. She's rich and has good horses. Trainers wouldn't mind taking her on as a 'student.'
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  #1938  
Old 11-04-2012, 06:12 PM
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Well, she doesn't get horse riding proffesionally, it's not even a carreer! She is taking part in races to promote the sport (according to her words - if i am not mistaken.)
I just don't get that: isn't she embarrassed with all the bad results? It is not that is happened only once or twice, but the bad results and eliminations are happening repeatedly. It's not good for her profile as a rider.
Interestingly, here in the US, the high Jr/Amateur Owner jumper division is way more cut throat than the open to professional division. There are some scions of the super rich (Bruce Springsteen's daughter, Mike Bloomber's daughter, Athina Onassis, etc) who can afford to write unlimited checks to buy the very best horses in the wiorld. A lot of the time, a professional will sell their very best horse at the height of it's career in order to make the most money. Think of Will Simpson who sold his gold medal winning mount Carlsson Von Dach right after Beijing.
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  #1939  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:09 AM
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She´s not very good so what? As long as she´s happy with what she does, there´s no problem for me. I hope the horse does not suffer
Agree with you. She has fun, she earns money, she promotes riding and Gucci. She can choose any ball gawn she wants (she could also before... but now is surely for free!!)
As far as she is not in danger....Is she in higher danger than the other riders? Horse riding is a dangerous sport, for everyone.
Do not forget Christopher Reeves!
And, (I do not recall the name) abt 20 years ago, a famous rider, world championship level, fell from his horse, hurt a stone (or shot wall) and became tetraplegic.
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  #1940  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:09 AM
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Some horses do jump better on the higher fences'
You're right. But those are usually horses who don't pay much attention to low fences and start concentrating when they are higher.

Charlotte is repeteadly eliminated because her horses stop in front of the poles, refusing to jump when the approach is not good. When that's the case higher fences won't do nothing.
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