Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
She might want to go or not. If she does have that desire she has a long way ahead of her.
 
So many things again!

Empress Merel, a dressage girl? Then we'd better stop arguing because we'll never agree about anything. I cringe when I see a dressage rider trying to jump over a 0'80 oxer with fear in his eyes and an over controlled horse. Jumper vs. dresseur is a neverending story!:D

Cariraghitrio you should defintely approach horses. They are shy and sensitve but also very curious. As long as you act relaxed and don't make big movements or talk in a very loud voice, they'll want to know you and they'll approach you by themselves.

Debrann, we shouldn't demonize Charlotte either. I'm sure that she doesn't stress her horse willingly. Sadly, the conexion between horse and rider isn't always easy. Every rider, even the more delicate ones, has had the experience of wanting to do the right thing, and communicate properly in a soft way with the horse, and all of us have suffered once and again the frustrating experience of not managing to do it. You want to, but you don't always manage to do it.

Oh, and I agree when casiraghitrio when she says that Charlotte is kind of a poser. When asked in the monaco interview if she wanted to go "professional" she could have been honest and say something like "it would be wonderful but I am still very far away from that level. I try to do my best everyday and only the future will tell, but being a professional is very difficult and requires a lot of talent and personal investement" That's what a sensible down to earth girl would have answered.
Instead Charlotte answered with an irrealistic "we'll see how the season goes, but why not?" as if she was thinking of becoming a pro the following season!:ROFLMAO:

Empress Merel said:
Gosh, I really can't believe the discussion going on whetever she should be travelling or even doing jumping if her results are low.

Let the girl be. It's her life, her money and her decision. She is an adult and perfectly capable of making her own choices.
Click to expand...

Nobody is forbidding her to keep doing what she does. None of us has that power. But when you make public laughable statements you can't be surprised if people laugh at you, can you?

Empress Merel said:
Not everyone rides to win. Some just ride because it's fun. Some ride just to ride.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. It's stupid to think that everyone rides to win. It wouldn't be laughable at all if she was riding just for the fun of it. But the girl was talking on a tv interview about becoming a professional this year. So, she obviously doesn't just ride for the pleasure of it.



Empress Merel said:
Because she has the money. Let's face it, girls. If you had all the money and you could choose between an amazing horse with an incredible background of family or a nice horse, but not very special? I'd know it.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly the attitude a conceited and spoiled person would have. I don't buy the horse that best suit my habilities, I buy the most expensive one, because I'm worth it, and I can pay for it. Go along, do it. But instead of having decent results at low level competitions you'll keep on been laughed at by the circuit.
Precisely because she can pay, she can have the horse that's most suited for her. She could have a calm experienced 15 year old that would teach her. But apparently she is too good to be taught?
Valentine has a lot of money too. She could ride the same horse that Charlotte is riding and go to the same competions and keep on riding low 1'10 shows forever. Instead, she choose a wise path, and she is now riding really high level 1'50m. at CSI**** and getting good results.
Do you know Marta Ortega? She is the daughter of the Zara's group owner and way richer than Charlotte since her father is among the 10 biggest fortunes in the planet. Well, she rides the Valencia Global Tour show, because it happens in Spain, near her home, yet, although she is richer than Charlotte and has a better level than her as a rider (she jumps 1'40-1'50) she won't be following it around the world because it doesn't make any sense.

You seem to think that being rich gives you excuse enough to do whatever you want. Well, it certainly gives you the economical means to do it. But it can't prevent you for looking silly in the eyes of the public.
 
Sorry, for the double post, but I think that CasiraghiTrio made a really interesting point.

Charlotte is certainly accoustumed to do things at the top.

Take her academic career.
We know she got a Très Bien at her Bac, and nobodys gives you that for free. The exams are anonymous. This means she is intelligent.
Then she tries to go to the top of the academic world and enter de ENS. It was a logical step for someone with a Très Bien in the bac, but she was competing with people who had the same capacities than her and then she failed. It's wasn't such a fail. Entering the ENS is not easy and it's very common to fail the 1st exam and take the admission exam twice or even thrice. The funny thing is the moment she failed she apparently loose all interest in academics and she didn't even complete her standard 4 years university education. Did she think that she was "too good" to have a normal university degree and it had to be the ENS or nothing?

Take her journalistic career.
She could have take some kind of course or training before publishing. I've worked with someone with a much "bigger" name than casiraghi or grimaldi, who studied Sociology and latter decided to become a journalist. This girl had all the doors opened to her the same way Charlotte had just because of her family conexions. Yet, she decided to take the long way and go for a "journalism master" before starting to work, because she knew she should learn some things before starting to work. Charlotte, instead, took the quick easy road.

About horseriding.
Top trainers NEVER teach beginners. Most of them don't even teach intermediate level riders. Yet, Charlotte has always had top names as teachers. Why did they take her? Probably because they though it was worth making and exception because of the free publicity her name gave them.
If I was Caroline and my children wanted to ride poneys, I'd look for a very good teacher, of course. But I wouldn't be so absurd as to ask Waulters or Rozier to teach them. You can do it, of course, and they'll be happy to accept because they'll have their names printed in all kind of glossy magazines, but it is not the sensible logical thing to do.
Charlotte's been used to hang among the elite, as if she was one of them since childhood and she probably has trouble accepting her real place in the horse world.

Empress Merel said:
I really don't see the problem you all are making. But hey, that's just me. We don't know her, stop acting like you do.
Click to expand...
We are not "making" any problem. We are commenting on Charlotte absurd way of leading her career. When you make public silly choice and you even flaunt them on tv interviews you are exposed to public opinion.
I don't know Charlotte, and I have never seen her in my life. I don't act as if I knew her. I just talk about her public choices.
 
Who is Homer Simpson??:huh::neutral:A rider i guess:p
 
Unlike a Zara Phillips who has devoted her life to equestrian sport, Charlotte seems to be more casual about it, and there is nothing wrong with that - yes, she competes in legitimate, high-profile arenas, but even from her interview (the one about Global Champions tour - with Prince Albert, etc), she talks about how she's ridden since she was young, but you don't get the sense that she's DRIVEN to ride, more that she has a healthy respect for the sport and enjoys it. While I respect Theirry (and other coaches), I'm sure he continues to coach her more out of loyalty to the family than an actual belief that he can get her to professional/Olympic level. I think it's great to see that she wants to ride and compete - it's a great character-building exercise, since horses have a mind and body all their own, and don't care how much money you have or that you're royalty - either you have the skill to control and guide the horse or you don't.....
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Most riders are amateurs who don't want to devote their lives to horseriding.
The absurdity of it all comes from Charlotte saying on tv that she was thinking "why no?" about becoming professional if last season had went well, or Thierry Rozier saying in an interview that Charlottes rides "very, very well" and has "the talent and the horses to go very high". :ermm:

Of course in that same interview he said: "Le plaisir de mes élèves est ma priorité. A moi de tout mettre en œuvre pour qu’ils prennent du plaisir à 100%". That's maybe the clue. He has spoiled pupils who put their pleasure and whims before a sensible career and he allows it. Excuse me, but that's not the job of a professional trainer.
 
trepstrep said:
You seem to think that being rich gives you excuse enough to do whatever you want. Well, it certainly gives you the economical means to do it. But it can't prevent you for looking silly in the eyes of the public.
Click to expand...
You forgot something: being wealthy and having to report to no-one also gives you the privilege to not care about what the public think.

I agree with your points regarding the management of her equestrian career: she's over-reaching, under-achieving considering the quality of her mount and trainer and probably spoiled.
But I really, really doubt that as long as she enjoys the competition, she can be 'laughed' out of the circuit or guilted into riding a lesser horse.
When she stops, it will be out of boredom, not out of embarrassment.
 
Like I said; I don't see the problem, I don't see the fuss. If she wants to ride far away, her choice. If she wants to buy expensive horses, her choice.

And Trepstep, I admit not being confident while jumping. But hey, would you if you had a really nasty fall? I was damn lucky I didn't end up in hospital, thank you very much. I choose not to jump over 1m because I am just not confident enough anymore.

Top trainers never teach beginners you say? Ask Anky, ask Edward. Ask any top rider about some of their students and they'll tell you otherwise. Where the money is.....

And if she wants to give professional a try, I will wish her all the best because horseriding is the best sport in the world. And if she chooses to enjoy it the way she wants to, I'll applaud her for atleast trying.
 
I don't see the problem either, and I think this argument has run its course. We all have different opinions and it is fine to share them, but don't beat them into the ground. We will probably never know Charlotte or her reasons for doing the things she does, so I feel like we should move on. I'm not trying to offend anyone it is just my personal opinion, and you are all entitled to your own. I like this thread and I love to see pics of Charlotte competing, but I don't like all the arguments! :flowers:
 
I think some people here take the discussions too personally, or are too sensitive. No one, as far as I can tell, is attacking Charlotte.

Charlotte is not exempt from accountability. As trep rightly says, Charlotte puts herself in the public attention. We can discuss her public activities without being accused of "acting like" we "know" her. You guys need to calm down.

We're not arguing. Trep, I agree with everything you said in your last posts. I continue to enjoy reading your opinions. You are a thoughtful person. I respect that.
 
Fan of Monaco

I can think of several good reasons why Charlotte would want to ride with the Global Champions Tour:
1) it provides good, free, international publicity for Monaco
2) it provides good, free, international publicity for the GCT. They don't have a Tiger Woods. She is regularly on the cover of magazines.
3) if she is thinking about trying to go pro, riding with the GCT would give her a feel for what it would be like and what kind of commitment would be involved
4) It's a no brainer. Riding with the GCT is like going to the Harvard school of show jumping. She got to observe first hand, for several months, the top 30 show jumpers in the world. And I'm sure she asked them plenty of questions.

As for the Olympics, I would tend to agree with you except for the fact that her uncle, great uncle, great grandfather and his cousin were all Olympians. Six gold and 1 bronze in rowing. Pretty impressive.

I think it's way too early to write Charlotte off. Most of the top riders are aged 30 to 60. The few in their 20's all seem to be over age 25. Charlotte is age 23.
 
I think this is my first time to read negatively on Charlotte on this board, and I'm so surprised.
Reading about the Casiraghis, I've always had a feeling that their followers have a bit of fantasy about them, and cannot see anything not-great about them.
On her equestrian life, I've always doubted the seriousness of it, but all those experienced comments in depth have been very helpful to understand the horse world.
They'r very interesting indeed.
Now that I've given those insights, I'm becoming curious about how she's viewed within the circle..
I mean, the circle of more professional horse-riders who have equally prestigious backgroud.
 
Does anyone know?

How many hours per day can a horse be trained?
How many day per week and hours per day do the pros train on horseback?
How many horses do the pros usually take on tour with them? eg. like the Global Champions Tour
 
Last edited:
FanofMonaco said:
Does anyone know?

How many hours per day can a horse be trained?
How many day per week and hours per day do the pros train on horseback?
How many horses do the pros usually take on tour with them? eg. like the Global Champions Tour
Click to expand...

Before I had kids, I trained 2 horses for shows for the barn where I rode (not my personal horses). I would train 2 hrs for one, 2 hrs for the other - TIRED by the end of the day. I'm an intermediate rider, and the horses were both exprienced, used to the show ring, so they needed more of a "reminder" than stressful training to get them used to jumps, the ring, other horses, etc. I'm sure, at the professional level, they train many more hours on different horses (if they're to ride more than one during the event). I'd be interested to hear from more experienced riders, too.
 
FanofMonaco said:
I can think of several good reasons why Charlotte would want to ride with the Global Champions Tour:
1) it provides good, free, international publicity for Monaco
2) it provides good, free, international publicity for the GCT. They don't have a Tiger Woods. She is regularly on the cover of magazines.
3) if she is thinking about trying to go pro, riding with the GCT would give her a feel for what it would be like and what kind of commitment would be involved
4) It's a no brainer. Riding with the GCT is like going to the Harvard school of show jumping. She got to observe first hand, for several months, the top 30 show jumpers in the world. And I'm sure she asked them plenty of questions.

As for the Olympics, I would tend to agree with you except for the fact that her uncle, great uncle, great grandfather and his cousin were all Olympians. Six gold and 1 bronze in rowing. Pretty impressive.

I think it's way too early to write Charlotte off. Most of the top riders are aged 30 to 60. The few in their 20's all seem to be over age 25. Charlotte is age 23.
Click to expand...

Good points, FanofMonaco. Yes, it's great publicity for Monaco. I always thought that's the main motivation for Charlotte to be involved with the GCT. Everyone benefits: GCT benefits from the added glamor of the association to Monaco; Monaco is part of the GCT map. No,I don't think Char is going to the Olympics, but like you said, one never knows. If she was on an Olympic course, I think we'd see it by now. She'd be thinking of that, talking about it. I mean, she doesn't know what she wants now. She admit it on that interview, with LA STAMPA last year, to promote ever manifesto. She said she has no definite plans. So I think she is leaving everything open. But if she was going to Olympics,she would be working actively toward it.

The thing is, a top rider like Doda de Miranda or Philippe Rozier, or Michel Robert, or Jessica Kuerten, or Edwina Alexander......... yes they are over 30 but they have been FULL TIME in jumping since they were kids. Charlotte has only ever been part time. She is just a hobby rider. That's all. Nothing wrong with it. But that's the fact.

Anyway, this week is the start of the GCT in Valencia!! With or without Char, I'm excited for it. I mean, I love to see Char there. I just have to agree with trep that it's kind of ridiculous for her to go around with the tour like a poser.

Speaking of......... Trep, you know I generally agree with you, but there is one thing I must correct you on. About Marta Ortega Perez.... Marta follows the tour for more than Valencia. Last year, she was in Monaco, in Cannes, in Valkenswaard, and Estoril. I don't know if she went to Rio, as Charlotte did, but I wouldn't be surprised. But Marta, like you pointed out, is on a higher level than Char. She is on the same par with Athina, actually. Marta's trainer is Michel Robert!!!! Can you imagine? :lol:
 
^Yes, a few time that I can remember. She fell in 2002 at least twice: one time she broke her leg and she was on a crutch for a time, then another time, there was a tooth problem. Both incidents were minor injuries. She fell from Dumba, who was a bay colored horse owned by the Marionnaud-Rozier partnership, and had to go to dentist in the next day (according to the press reports of the time, which was June 2002). Later in November, she fell (I think from the chestnut Folka, also a Marionnaud horse) and was seen on a crutch in the next days.
 
Last edited:
Hi, CasiraghiTrio, are you sure about Marta? I'm sure you read it somewhere, but maybe the information you read was wrong?
As far as I know Michel Robert has ridden some of Marta's horses but he's not her trainer. She lives in Spain while he lives in France.
You're 75% right about the GCT though. She went to Portugal (Estoril in Portugal is even closer to her home than Valencia), but also to Monaco and Valkenswaard. I don't know why I had in mind that she'd only been to Valencia:whistling:

The differences between her and Charlotte are huge, though, and as you pointed out she is closer to Athina than Charlotte.
First, as it's Athina's case, Marta's boyfriend is a top level rider, and accompanying him, specially in the summer when she doesn't have so much work, can be part of the reason.
Second, she is a much better rider than Charlotte, and even better than Athina. Marta gets good results at 1'45m. competitions, a cathegory Charlotte doesn't even ride. In Monaco she actually won one of the amateur shows. You can't say you are out of place when you win, can you?
Third, since her father has the money she buys the best horses she can find. But she puts the really good ones in the hands of Michel Robert or her boyfriend Sergio Álvarez Moya, and some of them, like Madame Pompadour, she doesn't even ride them in competition, probably knowing that they will be a waste in her hands.
Fourth, even if she is better, richer, and has better horses than Charlotte she usually competes in Spain, and only travels to the big events in special circunstances.

So, nothing against amateur rich riders. Fan of Monaco also made an interesting point when she said that Charlotte may be doing the tour for publicity reasons. I'm not critizising Charlotte AT ALL because of her being an amateur. Not many people want to devote their lives entirely to horses and practically live in barn as professional do.
Amateurism is good!!! Let's make that clear, for once and all. The "problem" with Charlotte's career is that she doesn't seem to know her place. She buys better horses that she can ride, she ignores the smaller competions where she could gain experience... and she keeps getting very low results in low competitions. I have no idea whether it's her fault or Rozier's of course. Maybe it's both.
Even between amateurs they are very talented riders who don't turn professional because they have different interests in life. And even as an amateur it can be very frustrating when you don't evolve and stay forever at lower levels. From what I've seen she doesn't look like a talented rider, even as an amateur, so she probably should go slower and ride different kind of horses.
Athina, Marta and Valentine are also amateurs. But they went slow, they rode the horses they had to ride, competed in the small shows they had to compete and now they are in a much higher league than Charlotte.

Oh, even if I am critical with her, I love to see Charlotte in the Tour, because that means, more pictures!
 
Horseygal said:
Before I had kids, I trained 2 horses for shows for the barn where I rode (not my personal horses). I would train 2 hrs for one, 2 hrs for the other - TIRED by the end of the day. I'm an intermediate rider, and the horses were both exprienced, used to the show ring, so they needed more of a "reminder" than stressful training to get them used to jumps, the ring, other horses, etc. I'm sure, at the professional level, they train many more hours on different horses (if they're to ride more than one during the event). I'd be interested to hear from more experienced riders, too.
Click to expand...

I guess every country has different ways. I am an amateur myself, but I've worked both with professionals and amateurs and we never trained a horse for more than 1 hour. never knew of anyone who trained a horse for 2 hours. Of course, different trainers different methods, I guess.
And yes, professional ride many hours. Professional ride many horses daily, not only the 2 or 3 horses they take with them to the big tours. there is also the young horses, horses they test for a while, horses they try out for other people... It's very time consuming and you can't really be professional and have another life with another job. That's why most people who are passionate about horses remain as amateurs.
 
trepstrep said:
I guess every country has different ways. I am an amateur myself, but I've worked both with professionals and amateurs and we never trained a horse for more than 1 hour. never knew of anyone who trained a horse for 2 hours. Of course, different trainers different methods, I guess.
And yes, professional ride many hours. Professional ride many horses daily, not only the 2 or 3 horses they take with them to the big tours. there is also the young horses, horses they test for a while, horses they try out for other people... It's very time consuming and you can't really be professional and have another life with another job. That's why most people who are passionate about horses remain as amateurs.
Click to expand...

To clarify - part of the training included pre-ring training which was either a trail ride or just less structured riding - then, once they were warmed up, we'd get into it. It was very time consuming, but I think experienced horses also get complacent, and need to a different approach to prep for shows.

Hey CasiraghiTrio or Trepstep - do you know whether Valentine is riding professionally? I know we talk about Athena so much, but for years we've not seen Charlotte w/Valentine, but heard that she'd gone on to college and/or riding more seriously....I know this is more a question for the Andrea/Char/Pierre and Friends link, but just curious if anyone has any knowledge of her whereabouts on the jumping circuit?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel sure Valentine is strictly an amateur rider, albeit, very good. Trep is saying that she rides on the French circuit. I haven't seen her name on any results online for a long time, but that could be due to her only being in the smaller events like trep says. I have the impression she is a full-time worker in something else entirely, like Marta. Her job title is General Manager for Quintessence in Paris, according to her linkedin profile.

Thanks for setting me straight on Marta, Trep. :cool: I assumed Michel Robert was her trainer, having seen many pictures of them working together, where it looked like he was coaching her. I believe that I was misled and that your information is accurate. I saw her name a lot on last year's GCT results and felt certain she was at the events in France as well as on the Iberian peninsula, but I won't swear to it. I am not sure there is a way to check either, because sometimes the GCT website takes out the lower-level results of past events and leave up only the big-prize results, probably to save space.
 
Marta, Athena and Valentine are all 2 years older than Charlotte. Marta is ranked 1412 (out of about 1900 worldwide) She jumped at level 5 2 times last year and finished poorly. She mostly jumped at level 2 and 3 but it looks like she only competed a few times.

Valentine is currently ranked 566 and appears to only compete in the summer. She mostly competes at level 2 and 3.

I think Athena has an excellent chance of going to the Olympics. She is currently ranked 533 but is ranked no. 2 in Greece. She jumped level 5 several times and has had a couple good results at that level. I don't think Athena was concerned about how she placed last year. She was just working at getting to level 5.
 
You can check the current rider rankings by clicking on Rolex Ranking, here:
DISCIPLINES - JUMPING - ROLEX RANKINGS
It's something to take into account but it does not give you a real clue about who's a better rider specially among amateurs because a rider who competes regularly gets more points than a better rider who doesn't compete much.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean about level 2, 3 or 5, FanofMonaco, Are you talking about the CSI stars? Because that has some importance but not much. You should pay more attention to the cm. every one of them is jumping and whether they are riding Grand Prix or not.

About Athina, she may be one of the best in Greece but I seriously doubt that she will manage to go to the Olympics. First, because Greece has a weak team and won't probably clasify, but more importantly because she's never run a Grand Prix and has never taken part in a top competiones. She's not bad for an amateur but still very far away from Olympic level.

CasiraghiTrio, about Marta, the truth is I'm not sure which shows of the GCT she entered. To tell the truth I don't really follow her. I just had a look at the GCT site, but maybe your info is better than mine. I'm pretty sure about Michel Robert, thought. They've worked together, and Robert has ridden Marta's horses but he is not her trainer (even although he maybe gave her counsel at some point).

Valentine is always an amateur. You probably know the video where she explains how horses are not her job, but only her passion.
YouTube - Valentine Pozzo Di Borgo It is a bit old (2008) but probably still valid since as CasiraghiTrio said, she is still managing her own company, Quintessence.

From the three of them, Valentine is the best by far. She's the only one who rides regularly Grand Prix and enters 1'50 competitions (and she even gets good results at them)
 
Why isn't Charlotte in this ranking? Because she has worst results than any of this riders?

PS: forget my question if her name is actually there. I didn't see it but there are so many names:;
 
They aren't going to say are they: and I am sure the horsey set have better things to do.
 
Here is a list I put together, for fun, and from curiosity. It is a list of some of the lady riders we've discussed so far, and others not discussed, and including Charlotte. You can compare their standings, or lack of standings. Here's the list: Ladies of FEI on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Trep, I think Athina has in fact done Grand Prix, but only started it this year. In Toscana she did the Gold Tour which was all GP, with fences no lower than 1m50. In Nantes this year she also did GP, and in Bordeaux, and most recently, last weekend in Modena. I think Athina might someday be at the Olympics. Probably not London, but maybe 2016. I think she is on a good course for it someday.

Yeah, I saw that Valentine video before, but while I can read French and understand it if a person speaks very slowly :D I can't understand her there. I like the sound of her voice though, and she's too cute.

I have something positive to say about Charlotte's riding!!!! I used to be very positive about her riding.... oh well, here it is: Last year, she rode mostly with that injured hand, and though her results mostly sucked, she didn't always do badly and regardless, with that injury, she deserves some credit. It's hard enough besides having a wrist bandage and probably a fair amount of pain. Which brings up something else....... She might have had to endure the pain during the competition, because if she took pain meds, it could have affected her riding. Most of them make you sleepy.
 
Yes, when I said levels I meant CSI stars. I got it off the FEI web site. Don't you have to be riding at 2 stars to start earning points? Also, I thought that every country got to send at least 1 person and/or team to the Olympics as long as they were certified as capable of riding the course (from a safety point) eg. csi 5 stars and jumping 1.60 meters.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom