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  #1341  
Old 10-30-2011, 03:11 PM
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My concern also is the potential danger to Charlotte. Whenever I see show jumping I am reminded of the wonderful Christopher Reeves and how he spent his last years. I would hate for that to happen to Charlotte ... as I would for anyone.
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  #1342  
Old 10-30-2011, 03:55 PM
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My concern also is the potential danger to Charlotte. Whenever I see show jumping I am reminded of the wonderful Christopher Reeves and how he spent his last years. I would hate for that to happen to Charlotte ... as I would for anyone.
It's understandable to be concerned, but it's unlikely she'll be injured that badly. She does show jumping- Christopher Reeve was injured doing cross country, which is a lot more dangerous.

It's more likely that she'll continue to ruin the training of her horses, and she'll eventually get fed up with her poor results and quit the sport. Which would be a shame- I love equestrian sports and anyone who brings attention to them is great for the sport. I just wish she'd slow down and do it right so that she can really be an asset to the sport.
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  #1343  
Old 10-30-2011, 05:21 PM
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Sorry HRH. I didn't notice you were American the first time. I am not a rider so I don't pick up on things like you do. What I noticed is that their feet go way back when they jump. The Amercian Richard Fellers? also does this. I have also noticed that the very best riders don't seem to move much from the hip down. They hinge at the waist. I can see where this would help the horse. The less the rider moves around the easier it is for the horse to stay balanced. The good riders make it look easy, but I know it isn't.I really enjoy watching show jumping on the internet. I wish it were shown more on tv here. Mostly see rodeo locally.
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  #1344  
Old 10-30-2011, 06:05 PM
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Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same. .
hahhaaa, Bost is the weirdest rider ever!He's got such bad posture and balance... I've never seen anyone who looks so ugly on a horse. He seems to do everything wrong and yet, his "system" works for him and him alone!

Actually, the french have amazingly correct riders, with wonderful mechanics and position. Watching Michel Robert or Pénélope Leprevost is a joy for the eye. They're so subtle, so symbiotic with their horses.
American riders are usally very subtle and light on the hand as well. I really like them. Laura Kraut is great.
The germans and dutch are different. They usually put more emphasis on control and they are more interventional.

I believe the important thing is to find a style that suits you. All of them can be effective if done properly.
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  #1345  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:32 AM
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I have noticed in the US that most of the competitions are hunter class. You are scored on technique as well as faults and time. I think this is good for people learning the sport. Do they have that in France TrepStep?

I have also been thinking about what you have said TrepStep about the difference between 1* and 2*. Charlotte is definitely having a harder time with 2*. I am thinking the difference is where the higher fences are placed. eg. In 1* the course designer might put a low jump after a hard turn and in 2* they might put a high fence, making the course more difficult. She has been jumping 1.30 and 1.35m for over a year so she is used to the height at least in a straight line.What do you think?
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  #1346  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:40 PM
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I have noticed in the US that most of the competitions are hunter class. You are scored on technique as well as faults and time. I think this is good for people learning the sport. Do they have that in France TrepStep?

I have also been thinking about what you have said TrepStep about the difference between 1* and 2*. Charlotte is definitely having a harder time with 2*. I am thinking the difference is where the higher fences are placed. eg. In 1* the course designer might put a low jump after a hard turn and in 2* they might put a high fence, making the course more difficult. She has been jumping 1.30 and 1.35m for over a year so she is used to the height at least in a straight line.What do you think?
Here in the US we have hunter divisions (scored subjectively on how pretty, smooth and classical the round is) and jumper divisions (leave the jumps up and go the fastest and you win). The anology I use is it is the difference between figure skating and hockey.
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  #1347  
Old 10-31-2011, 05:25 PM
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Do they still get deductions for dropped rails and times, Scooter? What percentage of the score is subjective?
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  #1348  
Old 11-02-2011, 04:49 PM
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For hunters it's completely subjective. There are, however, no time faults accrued. A rail down (in theory) is only penalized if it is due to poor form in the horse's jump, not a rider error. In practice though, a dropped rail will put you out of the money.
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  #1349  
Old 11-02-2011, 05:48 PM
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Charlotte Casiraghi with her dachshund during The Jumping of Lyon. October 28
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6989/charrb.jpg
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  #1350  
Old 11-02-2011, 06:18 PM
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Scooter , that doesn't sound like much of a sport. More like ice dancing, which I hate, than figure skating. I prefer show jumping.
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  #1351  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:02 AM
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Scooter , that doesn't sound like much of a sport. More like ice dancing, which I hate, than figure skating. I prefer show jumping.
It's actually more entertaining than you'd think :) It's a bit slower, but the horses and riders look very beautiful- very precise when they're doing it right.
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  #1352  
Old 11-05-2011, 03:05 AM
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Charlotte Casiraghi with her dachshund during The Jumping of Lyon. October 28
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6989/charrb.jpg
Cute photo. Is that Thierry or Phillipe with her?

Anyway-I found the dates for the GCT 2012!!!

Doha, Qatar 5 - 7 April (likely we'll see her)
Valencia, Spain 4 - 6 May (Pauline's birthday is the 1st day)
Hamburg, Germany 16-20 May
Wiesbaden, Germany 25 - 28 May (Grand Prix 24-27 May, so likely no Charlotte)
Cannes, France 14 - 16 June
Monte Carlo, Monaco 28 - 30 June
Estroil, Portugal 13 - 14 July
Chantilly, France 20 - 22 July (Alex's birthday....)
Valkenswaard, The Netherlands 17 - 19 August
Lausanne, Switzerland 14 - 16 September
Vienna, Austria 21- 23 September
Shanghai, China 4 - 6 October
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates 22 - 24 November


Interesting to see No Rio this year...
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  #1353  
Old 11-05-2011, 06:07 AM
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^ No Rio? Is there a problem between Athina and GCT?
FanofMonaco, our specialist about Athina O., do you know anything about it?
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  #1354  
Old 11-05-2011, 08:03 AM
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That's what I was thinking...could be possible...maybe a problem between Athina-Jan/Edwina (J/E ARE married now, afterall.)? Or maybe they just couldn't get the venue they wanted when they wanted, so they decided to scrap it this year? Who knows.
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  #1355  
Old 11-05-2011, 08:55 AM
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I didn't know they were married, thanks for the new!
As GCT in Rio is concerned, the reason must be important: GCT needs someone like Athina, more than Charlotte. She's the wealthiest woman in the world, and she lives in Brazil, an emergent country: she can bring them a lot of money. I really wonder what happened... Maybe is it a mistake on the website? Time will tell us!
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  #1356  
Old 11-06-2011, 03:54 AM
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As the discussion was turning into one about a wedding Charlotte, Princess Caroline and Princess Alexandra
attended and no longer had anything to do with Charlotte's equestrian career, posts have been moved to
the following thread:

** Princess Caroline & Family Current Events Part 6 : Feb.2010 - **
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  #1357  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:18 AM
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I have noticed in the US that most of the competitions are hunter class. You are scored on technique as well as faults and time. I think this is good for people learning the sport. Do they have that in France TrepStep?
Hunting competitions are very rare in France, sadly. They may look boring to watch but I think they should be a compulsory step in the learning process if you want to become a showjumper. I don't care much about some of the aesthetic requirements of hunter, but the very important thing about it is, that it teachers riders how to be really correct and subtle on horse and it teaches to manage the rythm of the galop (something essential for showjumping). It gaves you very important basic learnings you can use later and learnings and teaches to ride in a way that is very respectful to the horse and not aggresive.
For example, strong bit are forbidden in hunter competitions, so you have to manage your horse wiht just a snaffle bit and in a delicate way if you want to score some points.

It is also very interesting that since the jumps are never very height, it is not that important to have the most powerful horse just to do things correctly. Too many people in europe, start jumping high fences before they are ready to do it, simply because they can afford a good horse. Their style is awful, they put themselves and the're horses at risk and they don't often go very far in their career. (does it remind you of someone? ) Hunter prevents all this because before entering showjumping competitions, where maybe you will have to face diffiicult situations, you've learned how to do things properly and that style sticks with you.

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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
I have also been thinking about what you have said TrepStep about the difference between 1* and 2*. Charlotte is definitely having a harder time with 2*. I am thinking the difference is where the higher fences are placed. eg. In 1* the course designer might put a low jump after a hard turn and in 2* they might put a high fence, making the course more difficult. She has been jumping 1.30 and 1.35m for over a year so she is used to the height at least in a straight line.What do you think?
You're very right when you say that the difficulty is oftent not the height but shere the fences are placed. It should be that way, and it should be somedifference between 1* and 2*, but the truth is, in real life, you don't really see it. I've jumped 2* courses (that the higher I've ever gone and just a few times) with easier courses than 1*, and infernal 1* courses.
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  #1358  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:59 PM
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I was thinking the same about Hunter competitions. Maybe that is why they push it in the US. They want the riders to learn the basics correctly. Then they can move on to show jumping if they want to.

Regarding the * levels that explains why Charlotte has done well on some of the 2* on the GCT. Now that she is doing the 2* following the World Cup she is having more trouble. Those are probably made harder because alot of higher level international riders compete in those events.

I don't think there was a competition at Bois le Roi this past week-end. I think I was looking at 2010.
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  #1359  
Old 11-07-2011, 02:56 PM
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I was thinking the same about Hunter competitions. Maybe that is why they push it in the US. They want the riders to learn the basics correctly. Then they can move on to show jumping if they want to.
Absolutely. Europe has a lot to learn from the US on this.

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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Regarding the * levels that explains why Charlotte has done well on some of the 2* on the GCT. Now that she is doing the 2* following the World Cup she is having more trouble. Those are probably made harder because alot of higher level international riders compete in those events.
I think you may be right! Since a lot of the riders on the GCT small tour are local celebrities and such, maybe they don't want to make it too difficult, while de World Cup makes things harder.
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  #1360  
Old 11-08-2011, 01:56 AM
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I was thinking the same about Hunter competitions. Maybe that is why they push it in the US. They want the riders to learn the basics correctly. Then they can move on to show jumping if they want to.

Regarding the * levels that explains why Charlotte has done well on some of the 2* on the GCT. Now that she is doing the 2* following the World Cup she is having more trouble. Those are probably made harder because alot of higher level international riders compete in those events.

I don't think there was a competition at Bois le Roi this past week-end. I think I was looking at 2010.
Honestly, until this thread, I'd never even stopped and considered that hunter jumper competitions are much more popular in the U.S. I knew it academically, but I hadn't applied the knowledge to Charlotte and to others like her and how their riding careers develop.

It's completely true. It should be compulsory to ride hunter jumper for awhile before you can move into show jumping competition. Technique is important to the safety of both the horse and rider, and hunter classes encourage that.

Poor Charlotte. I like that she likes to ride and I'd really like to see her do well, but it's just not going to happen unless she's honest with herself and gets back to basics.

Ah well- at least us royal watchers that are also horse lovers have Zara Phillips and the Princess Royal :)
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